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24v Panels, 12v Batteries?

csp99

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Jun 19, 2023
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Athabasca, Alberta
I apologize for the stupid question. I'm seeing some sources saying yes and others saying no- or at least that's how I'm (probably mis-) reading it.

Can I have a 12v battery bank along with a 24v array?
 
Without knowing the type of controller and battery, that question can't be answered.

If it is a PWM controller you will forfeit a lot of power. While technically it probably will work, that voltage will be close or at times exceed the typical 50V input maximum of a low end controller. Lead acid batteries can take a lot of abuse. But if sulfated or a bad connection, voltages can exceed what other electronics can tolerate. I wouldn't do it with a lithium battery.
 
Without knowing the type of controller and battery, that question can't be answered.

If it is a PWM controller you will forfeit a lot of power. While technically it probably will work, that voltage will be close or at times exceed the typical 50V input maximum of a low end controller. Lead acid batteries can take a lot of abuse. But if sulfated or a bad connection, voltages can exceed what other electronics can tolerate. I wouldn't do it with a lithium battery.

Good point.
It's going to be a 60a MPPT with (8x) 6v flooded batteries in a 12v setup, with 12v inverter. (I'm sort of forced into 12v because of some wiring the last guy did that I'm not confident enough to modify at this point.)

Mainly trying to figure out what my options are for configuration of the 210w panels x6, if I would be better off all in series or series-parallel.
 
Post links to the specifications for the solar charge controller and solar panels and we'll be able to help you with that.
 
Post links to the specifications for the solar charge controller and solar panels and we'll be able to help you with that.

You guys are awesome here. Didn't want to be a bother so I'm searching all over for calculators and having no luck.

The panels are...
  • Dimension: 1640*675*35mm
  • Weight: 11.07kg/24.41lbs
  • Max Power Output(W): 210W
  • Voltage MPP Vmp(V): 16.77V
  • Current MPP Imp(A): 12.48A
  • Voltage Open Circuit Voc(V): 19.83V
  • Short Circuit Current Isc(A): 13.09A
And the controller specs I am seeing...

  • Solar Panel: Fit for 900W(12V);1700W(24V);3400W(48V);Max input Voltage:150V PV
  • The tracking rate of maximum power is ≥99% and the maximum conversion rate is >98%,、Intelligent maximum power point tracking technology increases efficiency 25%~30%.Ultra-fast tracking speed, tracking 1 times per second.
  • Photovoltaic module load voltage (recommend data): 12V System best mppt working voltage range (18V-60V); 24V System best mppt working voltage range (36V-72V); 36V System best mppt working voltage range (54V-144V);48V System best mppt working voltage range (72V-144V).
 
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You guys are awesome here. Didn't want to be a bother so I'm searching all over for calculators and having no luck.

The panels are...
  • Dimension: 1640*675*35mm
  • Weight: 11.07kg/24.41lbs
  • Max Power Output(W): 210W
  • Voltage MPP Vmp(V): 16.77V
  • Current MPP Imp(A): 12.48A
  • Voltage Open Circuit Voc(V): 19.83V
  • Short Circuit Current Isc(A): 13.09A
And the controller specs I am seeing...

  • Solar Panel: Fit for 900W(12V);1700W(24V);3400W(48V);Max input Voltage:150V PV
  • The tracking rate of maximum power is ≥99% and the maximum conversion rate is >98%,、Intelligent maximum power point tracking technology increases efficiency 25%~30%.Ultra-fast tracking speed, tracking 1 times per second.
  • Photovoltaic module load voltage (recommend data): 12V System best mppt working voltage range (18V-60V); 24V System best mppt working voltage range (36V-72V); 36V System best mppt working voltage range (54V-144V);48V System best mppt working voltage range (72V-144V).
Those are 12v panels. VOC on 24v panels would be 43-46ish volts

To directly answer your question, my 24v panels are 46voc running through a victron 100/50 to a 12v battery bank. There is a slight advantage with 24v panels over 12v panels... but you have to watch out for exceed max volts on the SCC if you put the panels in series.
 
Looking at the specs of your controller, this is what I see...
1687802243087.png
This is the very first time I've seen a controller with different maximal voltages. Usually I see maximal amps varying from one system voltage to another. Although I see the unit have a max Voc listed as 200V, I would be hesitant to recommend wiring a panel string anywhere near that high.

My gut feeling is that you should treat the 80VDC value for 12V as the max Voc? Maybe someone that actually has this controller can chime in to give more experienced advice.

In any case, 4 of your panels, wired in series, I think would work with this controller. The Voc at room temp is going to bump up to 79.3V, but could easily go past 88V on a frosty morning. Since you are in Alberta, that could easily bump past 99V at -40 degrees.

To be really, really conservative, assuming you never want the Voc to pass 80V, then wire a max of only three of those panels in series. The Voc at -40 degrees will only be 74V. It might be very worthwhile to communicate with the manufacturer to really pin down what exactly the max voltage for a 12V system can be.

One other way to increase your solar input without exceeding these very conservative Voc limits is to use virtual tracking. Get 6 of those panels and wire them 3S2P, but face one array Southeast, while the other array faces Southwest. Since neither array is at maximal power at the same time, that will safely keep you below your amp limit.
 
Looking at the specs of your controller, this is what I see...
View attachment 154488
This is the very first time I've seen a controller with different maximal voltages. Usually I see maximal amps varying from one system voltage to another. Although I see the unit have a max Voc listed as 200V, I would be hesitant to recommend wiring a panel string anywhere near that high.

My gut feeling is that you should treat the 80VDC value for 12V as the max Voc? Maybe someone that actually has this controller can chime in to give more experienced advice.

In any case, 4 of your panels, wired in series, I think would work with this controller. The Voc at room temp is going to bump up to 79.3V, but could easily go past 88V on a frosty morning. Since you are in Alberta, that could easily bump past 99V at -40 degrees.

To be really, really conservative, assuming you never want the Voc to pass 80V, then wire a max of only three of those panels in series. The Voc at -40 degrees will only be 74V. It might be very worthwhile to communicate with the manufacturer to really pin down what exactly the max voltage for a 12V system can be.

One other way to increase your solar input without exceeding these very conservative Voc limits is to use virtual tracking. Get 6 of those panels and wire them 3S2P, but face one array Southeast, while the other array faces Southwest. Since neither array is at maximal power at the same time, that will safely keep you below your amp limit.

Ah damn. I didn't realize they could be different. I saw the "Max input Voltage:150V PV" when I bought it and figured I was good. There's a lesson for me to read a little deeper.
Wonder if I would be better off returning this and going for something else.
 
Ah damn. I didn't realize they could be different. I saw the "Max input Voltage:150V PV" when I bought it and figured I was good. There's a lesson for me to read a little deeper.
Wonder if I would be better off returning this and going for something else.

I actually have that controller, except it's the prior iteration that does not support float voltage, only CC and CV phases. Price was decent at the time.

It does indeed have the different Voc limits based on battery voltage.

IMHO, 4S is fine down to -40°C/-40°F based on a conservative -0.4%/°C Voc temperature coefficient.
 
The specs where I spied the Max 150 were from here on amazon. The other specs here were from another site selling it. I posted the latter because they looked a bit more detailed.
 
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Renogy's 60a looks a little more reasonable, but is the 800W max @ 12v a hard and fast thing? Am I going to end the world by putting 840W on there? :unsure:

ROVER 60 AMP MPPT SOLAR CHARGE CONTROLLER
Nominal Voltage: 12V/24V/36V/48V Auto Recognition (for non-lithium batteries)Rated Charge Current: 60A
Rated Load Current: 20AMax. PV Input Power: 800W/12V; 1600W/24V; 2400W/36V; 3200W/48V
Max. PV Input Voltage:140VDCSelf-Consumption: 0.7W-1.2W
Operating Temperature: -31 °C to 113 °CTemperature Compensation: -3mV/°C/2V (default)
Dimensions: 285 x 205 x 102mm (11.22 x 8.07 x 4.00in)Weight: 7.9lbs
Enclosure: IP32Terminals: 25mm2 4AWG
 
Renogy's 60a looks a little more reasonable, but is the 800W max @ 12v a hard and fast thing? Am I going to end the world by putting 840W on there? :unsure:

ROVER 60 AMP MPPT SOLAR CHARGE CONTROLLER
Nominal Voltage: 12V/24V/36V/48V Auto Recognition (for non-lithium batteries)Rated Charge Current: 60A
Rated Load Current: 20AMax. PV Input Power: 800W/12V; 1600W/24V; 2400W/36V; 3200W/48V
Max. PV Input Voltage:140VDCSelf-Consumption: 0.7W-1.2W
Operating Temperature: -31 °C to 113 °CTemperature Compensation: -3mV/°C/2V (default)
Dimensions: 285 x 205 x 102mm (11.22 x 8.07 x 4.00in)Weight: 7.9lbs
Enclosure: IP32Terminals: 25mm2 4AWG

No, it's not a hard limit. It's a nominal number to hit for most solar charge controllers. Over paneling is very common with an MPPT solar charge controller.
 
So the Rover 60a is on back order everywhere I look, and a lot of these other 60+ MPPT's do not have a spot to put a DC load. My current setup has one- some LED lights and a couple little USB chargers. Is that something that I can hook directly to the batteries instead? I was reading that the controller is basically just making sure that load does not totally drain the batteries...if that's not a big concern, I should be okay?
 
So the Rover 60a is on back order everywhere I look, and a lot of these other 60+ MPPT's do not have a spot to put a DC load. My current setup has one- some LED lights and a couple little USB chargers. Is that something that I can hook directly to the batteries instead? I was reading that the controller is basically just making sure that load does not totally drain the batteries...if that's not a big concern, I should be okay?
If the controller has USB ports, it is not an mppt controller.
It is a pwm charge limiter.
If you connect dc loads directly to a battery, the battery can be drained, so having them connect to a charge protect device is wise if you don't have steady solar.
 
If the controller has USB ports, it is not an mppt controller.
It is a pwm charge limiter.
If you connect dc loads directly to a battery, the battery can be drained, so having them connect to a charge protect device is wise if you don't have steady solar.
Sorry not USB on the controller itself. He wired from the Load terminals out to several things around the room, 2 of those things being tiny little USB phone/device chargers.
 
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