48v System Alternator Charging

[HarryN]

48V alternators are absolutely available and are becoming more and more popular. Winnebago and Storyteller Overland are going 48V. I just installed a 48V electrical system in a clients Sprinter van with a 48V alternator for charging. I will be doing the same system in my personal van. Check out Nations Starter alternator.

Same - except it was from a different supplier.

The tricky part of your setup is that your existing dual alternators might be working together under engine computer control. if that is the setup, the separating these Siamese twins can be a pain or nearly impossible.

48 volt mobile is quite a bit more demanding in terms of off the shelf parts vs 24 volt, so you really have to decide that you want it more than if the ROI makes sense.

 

[justinm001]

48V alternators are absolutely available and are becoming more and more popular. Winnebago and Storyteller Overland are going 48V. I just installed a 48V electrical system in a clients Sprinter van with a 48V alternator for charging. I will be doing the same system in my personal van. Check out Nations Starter alternator.

The problem is cost. A 48v alternator is a few grand and you need a wakespeed/Zeus.

You can get a large 24v alternator for a couple hundred used and 10 Victron Orion dc converters 24 48 to pull 4kw from it.

Or something like a sterling 12 to 48v and get 1500w for a grand. A 48v alternator just isn't really cost effective yet. When they drop to a grand or so then yes definitely

Sterling Power 12-Volt to 48-Volt DC-DC Charger with Jump Start Assistance - BB1248120 - Vanlife Outfitters

12-volt to 48-volt battery to battery charger (DC-DC charger) that enables you to charge a 48-volt battery bank from a 12-volt vehicle battery. Charges your hour battery bank at up to 1,500 watts! Input: 9-16 volts, 115 amps Output: 26 amps at nominal 48-volt Bi-directional design enables...

www.vanlifeoutfitters.com

 

[BenQ]

You are welcome @steves_ambo

“The Enlightened” ,,, Ya maybe. My 1st van build in 2018 I wanted to go 100% electric, until I did the math. I didn’t want my wallet to be “Enlightened”

In Canada, we buy propane at an honest “fill” rate @ Costco which changes as the cost if propane changes, but usually $14 to $17 CAN for a fill from totally empty.

If you do a “load calculation & daily estimated energy spreadsheet”, I can show you how propane can help with “All Things Heat”.

1 - 20lb BBQ Tank
vs
116 - 100Ah 12vdc LFP Batteries

Your Choice


Here are some spreadsheets I have done calculations / estimates for energy use to give you some examples;


View attachment 198047


View attachment 198048

Some of the information in the above examples is incomplete ( so rough idea only for you to help you with your unique situation / build ).

Great spreadsheet! One 48v 100ah LiFePo4 battery is 5kw. A 1500w 12v to 48v charger can do that in 3.5 hrs. Add in some solar and you’ll never need to worry about energy.

 

[Built.Vns]

The problem is cost. A 48v alternator is a few grand and you need a wakespeed/Zeus.

You can get a large 24v alternator for a couple hundred used and 10 Victron Orion dc converters 24 48 to pull 4kw from it.

Or something like a sterling 12 to 48v and get 1500w for a grand. A 48v alternator just isn't really cost effective yet. When they drop to a grand or so then yes definitely

Sterling Power 12-Volt to 48-Volt DC-DC Charger with Jump Start Assistance - BB1248120 - Vanlife Outfitters

12-volt to 48-volt battery to battery charger (DC-DC charger) that enables you to charge a 48-volt battery bank from a 12-volt vehicle battery. Charges your hour battery bank at up to 1,500 watts! Input: 9-16 volts, 115 amps Output: 26 amps at nominal 48-volt Bi-directional design enables...

www.vanlifeoutfitters.com

10 Victron DC-DC converters?!?! Who wants to wire that up? Yes the 48V alternator kit was $3400 but that because it comes with a very nice bracket and tensioner and yes the WS500. And you are limited in battery choice, in this case a Lithionics 51V module that cost $6500 and then an additional $1500 for the external BMS. So yeah, certainly not cheap and things like battery switches are nonexistent from brands like Bluesea or BEP. But this system basically charges the battery at 1% per minute, so you're battery is down to 40% it only takes 1 hour of driving to charge it back up to 100% at 5kW. AC unit could potentially run for 24 hours off-grid depending on actual temp and whether or not you're in direct sunlight. Im pretty impressed with the system overall.

 

[justinm001]

10 Victron DC-DC converters?!?! Who wants to wire that up? Yes the 48V alternator kit was $3400 but that because it comes with a very nice bracket and tensioner and yes the WS500. And you are limited in battery choice, in this case a Lithionics 51V module that cost $6500 and then an additional $1500 for the external BMS. So yeah, certainly not cheap and things like battery switches are nonexistent from brands like Bluesea or BEP. But this system basically charges the battery at 1% per minute, so you're battery is down to 40% it only takes 1 hour of driving to charge it back up to 100% at 5kW. AC unit could potentially run for 24 hours off-grid depending on actual temp and whether or not you're in direct sunlight. Im pretty impressed with the system overall.

Not that hard to wire up. I went with 6 because I have a 48v and a 12v house system and the 12v ones boost to 85amps. About 1500w of 48v and 1500-2000w 12v.

Without DC DC converters and without lead acid there's a major risk of voltage spikes, if any fuse blows or something the whole systems fried. Sterling makes an alternator protection device.

My alternator is 12v or 24v just depends on the regulator and I actually went with 12v into my lithium setup with a wakespeed and the thing couldn't keep the voltages down. Every 20 minutes or so I'd get a spike then after a few they'd get bigger and shut down the wakespeed. Eventually wakespeed didn't shutoff in time and fried a bunch of stuff.

Not only do you get voltage protection with a DC converter but you can fine tune the draw and even link it to your start battery system which absorbs spikes and such.

In my experience with various systems alternators aren't that reliable at constant voltage and there's a delay with wakespeed from the time it receives to it adjusts the field to the alt adjusts. These spikes aren't a big deal with lead acid but will blow BMS and such.

I haven't seen any major converters use 48v alternators yet. Maybe Liberty Coach with their Volta system as it's 58v but Idk. A lot of them use the AC alternator system that's 8500w and inverters to convert it seems.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Biggest regret from building my own system was going 24v instead of 48v. Wouldn't even consider anything but 48v for any system over few hundred watts.

 

[solar_fan]

imo 24v is the perfect spot for a vehicle because all the 48v inverters have a horribly large standby consumption for a small system, and because if you do something wrong 24v won't shock you like 48v. For anything less than 600w of solar panels the standby of 48v all in ones are unsustainable, and for mobile you aren't going to run anything big enough to need their huge amount of output.

I went with the MPP PIP 2724 all in one for my van. The only downside is the low input (both solar and AC/shore power) so for an ambulance packed with a big flat roof you'd need to have the 2724 plus another solar charge controller. Or you could get two 2724's, use both for solar input, use one for AC output, and have a full second set of AC outputs as a backup. They're ~$400 on eBay (that you can haggle down) and work perfectly well for my needs. Now that I think of it, I should really grab a second just for the added AC input when I'm next to shore power.

 

[justinm001]

imo 24v is the perfect spot for a vehicle because all the 48v inverters have a horribly large standby consumption for a small system, and because if you do something wrong 24v won't shock you like 48v. For anything less than 600w of solar panels the standby of 48v all in ones are unsustainable, and for mobile you aren't going to run anything big enough to need their huge amount of output.

I went with the MPP PIP 2724 all in one for my van. The only downside is the low input (both solar and AC/shore power) so for an ambulance packed with a big flat roof you'd need to have the 2724 plus another solar charge controller. Or you could get two 2724's, use both for solar input, use one for AC output, and have a full second set of AC outputs as a backup. They're ~$400 on eBay (that you can haggle down) and work perfectly well for my needs. Now that I think of it, I should really grab a second just for the added AC input when I'm next to shore power.

Which inverters have higher idle consumption for 48v vs 12 or 24? Never heard of this. I have Victron Quattro 5000s both 12 and 48v and they seem the same 40w per inverter.

There also isn't really an output difference you can get a 3000w inverter in 12/24/48

The only real problem is you need the solar strings to be 60v so like 300w+

 

[Built.Vns]

Not that hard to wire up. I went with 6 because I have a 48v and a 12v house system and the 12v ones boost to 85amps. About 1500w of 48v and 1500-2000w 12v.

Without DC DC converters and without lead acid there's a major risk of voltage spikes, if any fuse blows or something the whole systems fried. Sterling makes an alternator protection device.

My alternator is 12v or 24v just depends on the regulator and I actually went with 12v into my lithium setup with a wakespeed and the thing couldn't keep the voltages down. Every 20 minutes or so I'd get a spike then after a few they'd get bigger and shut down the wakespeed. Eventually wakespeed didn't shutoff in time and fried a bunch of stuff.

Not only do you get voltage protection with a DC converter but you can fine tune the draw and even link it to your start battery system which absorbs spikes and such.

In my experience with various systems alternators aren't that reliable at constant voltage and there's a delay with wakespeed from the time it receives to it adjusts the field to the alt adjusts. These spikes aren't a big deal with lead acid but will blow BMS and such.

I haven't seen any major converters use 48v alternators yet. Maybe Liberty Coach with their Volta system as it's 58v but Idk. A lot of them use the AC alternator system that's 8500w and inverters to convert it seems.

New Winnebago Revel and Storyteller both offer 48V electrical systems this year. Been test driving my clients van for a few days and alternator has been flawless producing 5kW (95A) charge continuously while driving. Wakespeed came pre-programmed for my battery set up.

 

[justinm001]

New Winnebago Revel and Storyteller both offer 48V electrical systems this year. Been test driving my clients van for a few days and alternator has been flawless producing 5kW (95A) charge continuously while driving. Wakespeed came pre-programmed for my battery set up.

Sweet. Looks like it's this 130a model which is even larger than the balmar. Wonder how much the alternator is

130HSBIG4H1050S12.5JE2S

www.americanpowerinc.com

 

[Built.Vns]

Sweet. Looks like it's this 130a model which is even larger than the balmar. Wonder how much the alternator is

130HSBIG4H1050S12.5JE2S

www.americanpowerinc.com

Storyteller is using a new Lithonics alternator. The alternator I installed on my clients van is from Nations Starter Alternator. I have this American Power alternator for my personal van.

 

[solar_fan]

Which inverters have higher idle consumption for 48v vs 12 or 24? Never heard of this. I have Victron Quattro 5000s both 12 and 48v and they seem the same 40w per inverter.

There also isn't really an output difference you can get a 3000w inverter in 12/24/48

The only real problem is you need the solar strings to be 60v so like 300w+

Every 48v all in one (solar charge controller, ac to dc charger, and dc to ac inverter output, all in one unit) I looked at was going to be like 70+ watts at standby, and that's too much for a mobile system. I wanted to save money and time on setting things up by getting a dead simple all in one, but if you have the money then victron with all their mix and match pieces seem like a great option.

 

[justinm001]

Every 48v all in one (solar charge controller, ac to dc charger, and dc to ac inverter output, all in one unit) I looked at was going to be like 70+ watts at standby, and that's too much for a mobile system. I wanted to save money and time on setting things up by getting a dead simple all in one, but if you have the money then victron with all their mix and match pieces seem like a great option.

That's because all in ones arent designed for mobile applications and 48v is what everyone uses for off grid home installs. All in one's aren't designed to be max efficiency they cut corners to save cost at the expense of efficiency

It's not the voltage that causes idle consumption it's the inverter type (not low frequency) and use case.

 

[Delmar]

Since this is a DIY forum. EDIT older Fords use external voltage regulators. Wouldn't that be much easier?