Portable Power Station w Alternator Charging

[Taco Supremo]

Hello all,

Thank you for reading and all the contributions you've made in the forum up to this point. I'm a big fan of Will!

I'm building a 24 quart milk crate power station for my suv. 12V will be used to run the fridge and some led lights around camp and charge phoned etc.

I plan to use a 100ah lifepo4 battery and charge off alternator, shore or solar.

I've attached my diagram.

I have some questions around wire size, wire configuration and fusing.

The crate is removable. The alternator power and chassis ground will connect to the crate via a 175A Anderson Quick Connect and charge as we drive. Solar will only be charged when stationary from 2x100w foldable solar panels.

AC shore powerwill be used to charge prior to trip and when possible at campsites. 1000w inverter to power 20v chainsaw battery charger (600w) and two way radio batteries.

Questions:

1. Green wires can be 4AWG?
2. 40a or 50a breaker (blue sea 285) considering under hood temp, using 4AWG, and <20ft total loop?
3. For the fuse between dc charger and +Bus, can it be 40 if main fuse on start batt is 50? Does it matter?
4. Do I need a fuse on PV + line into MPPT?

Equipment list thoughts so far

Vic orion tr 12 30
Vic smart mppt 12 20
Vic smart shunt
Blue sea breakers, busses, and fuse block

Thanks in advance for any and all guidance and critique! I'll post pics as I build!

Same pic just different orientations...

 

[Dave in AZ]

Hello all,

Thank you for reading and all the contributions you've made in the forum up to this point. I'm a big fan of Will!

I'm building a 24 quart milk crate power station for my suv. 12V will be used to run the fridge and some led lights around camp and charge phoned etc.

I plan to use a 100ah lifepo4 battery and charge off alternator, shore or solar.

I've attached my diagram.

I have some questions around wire size, wire configuration and fusing.

The crate is removable. The alternator power and chassis ground will connect to the crate via a 175A Anderson Quick Connect and charge as we drive. Solar will only be charged when stationary from 2x100w foldable solar panels.

AC shore powerwill be used to charge prior to trip and when possible at campsites. 1000w inverter to power 20v chainsaw battery charger (600w) and two way radio batteries.

Questions:

1. Green wires can be 4AWG?
2. 40a or 50a breaker (blue sea 285) considering under hood temp, using 4AWG, and <20ft total loop?
3. For the fuse between dc charger and +Bus, can it be 40 if main fuse on start batt is 50? Does it matter?
4. Do I need a fuse on PV + line into MPPT?

Equipment list thoughts so far

Vic orion tr 12 30
Vic smart mppt 12 20
Vic smart shunt
Blue sea breakers, busses, and fuse block

Thanks in advance for any and all guidance and critique! I'll post pics as I build!

Same pic just different orientations...

Mostly decent!
1. Diagrams should color the wires red for positive, black for negative/neutral, green for any ground to chassis. Not coded for Awg, it makes it extremely difficult to follow. Just write the Awg to the side of each wire.
2. Your circuit length is maybe wrong. I just measured my Tacoma from alternator to closest point in bed, 15ft one way. Circuit length is 30 ft. EVEN IF YOU CONNECT TO FRAME, WHICH IS WRONG, you must include the round trip.
3. You should have a switch on either side of the mppt. So you can shutoff pv input without pulling mc4, which can arc and isn't rated for hot disconnects. And so you can shutoff battery flow to the mppt if you need to work on it.
4. Your bluesea dc fuseblock includes a negative busbar already, all your dc load neutral returns should go back to the dc fuseblock with a wire.
5. You should NOT use a connection to chassis for the circuit return, really for anything. But for the dc to dc charger for sure--run the appropriate black negative cable to your bus/2nd battery, and run same back to start battery negative. I don't feel like retyping it all, but chassis negative returns are the #1 mobile power fault error issue generators. Also, it is incorrect for mobile system "bonding" negative to ground, chassis, there should be one point in while system, at the start battery (also alternator and starter per most mfg).
6. AC charger... if used as "shore power" to power system also, not just charge battery, you need another switch to break the neutral return from battery to dcdc charger. Again, only 1 bond in system per NEC, and when plugged into ac that bond is outside your car at the main circuit panel. This is something all RVers have to deal with, most have a transfer switch setup to swap to shore power which switches BOTH positive AND negative to the shore plug, to handle to bond disconnect for shore ac. This is constantly done wrong in small camper and truck setups. Here is forum beginner resource file on mobile grounding and bonding.

Grounding Made simpler - Part 4: Mobile systems.

To get the paper, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. The subject of grounding is a complex, multifaceted subject, that is often treated as an after-thought but needs to be considered from the beginning of the design and build...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Taco Supremo]

Mostly decent!
1. Diagrams should color the wires red for positive, black for negative/neutral, green for any ground to chassis. Not coded for Awg, it makes it extremely difficult to follow. Just write the Awg to the side of each wire.
2. Your circuit length is maybe wrong. I just measured my Tacoma from alternator to closest point in bed, 15ft one way. Circuit length is 30 ft. EVEN IF YOU CONNECT TO FRAME, WHICH IS WRONG, you must include the round trip.
3. You should have a switch on either side of the mppt. So you can shutoff pv input without pulling mc4, which can arc and isn't rated for hot disconnects. And so you can shutoff battery flow to the mppt if you need to work on it.
4. Your bluesea dc fuseblock includes a negative busbar already, all your dc load neutral returns should go back to the dc fuseblock with a wire.
5. You should NOT use a connection to chassis for the circuit return, really for anything. But for the dc to dc charger for sure--run the appropriate black negative cable to your bus/2nd battery, and run same back to start battery negative. I don't feel like retyping it all, but chassis negative returns are the #1 mobile power fault error issue generators. Also, it is incorrect for mobile system "bonding" negative to ground, chassis, there should be one point in while system, at the start battery (also alternator and starter per most mfg).
6. AC charger... if used as "shore power" to power system also, not just charge battery, you need another switch to break the neutral return from battery to dcdc charger. Again, only 1 bond in system per NEC, and when plugged into ac that bond is outside your car at the main circuit panel. This is something all RVers have to deal with, most have a transfer switch setup to swap to shore power which switches BOTH positive AND negative to the shore plug, to handle to bond disconnect for shore ac. This is constantly done wrong in small camper and truck setups. Here is forum beginner resource file on mobile grounding and bonding.

Grounding Made simpler - Part 4: Mobile systems.

To get the paper, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. The subject of grounding is a complex, multifaceted subject, that is often treated as an after-thought but needs to be considered from the beginning of the design and build...

diysolarforum.com

Hi Dave, thank you so much for the reply!

I've made some edits to my schematic...I have a couple questions about the wire sizing. Do I need 1AWG wire from the 125A fuse to the +Bus bar and from the shunt to the - Bus? I'm unsure of the load there.

2. I'm used to running car audio wiring and just grounding to the frame/body in the rare cargo area. I will follow your advice and run back to the start battery. It's a 200 series landcruiser so similar distance as your taco I'd assume. Would 6AWG be sufficient? Not concerned about voltage loss...it's just to charge the battery.

3. Done!

4. Mine does not have a negative bus. Just six blade fuse Terminals.

5. Ok. Will not ground to anything other than start batt and lfp batt.

6. AC charger is a victron blue smart, 120vAC, 15amp. It's just to charge the battery. It would only be connected if the vehicle was off. I've put a circuit breaker on the dc line to + Bus bar. So I need to disconnect the dc charger if my vehicle is off and I'm on AC power?
I'll read up further on the grounding...

Thank you for the bassistance!

 

[Dave in AZ]

Hi Dave, thank you so much for the reply!

I've made some edits to my schematic...I have a couple questions about the wire sizing. Do I need 1AWG wire from the 125A fuse to the +Bus bar and from the shunt to the - Bus? I'm unsure of the load there.

2. I'm used to running car audio wiring and just grounding to the frame/body in the rare cargo area. I will follow your advice and run back to the start battery. It's a 200 series landcruiser so similar distance as your taco I'd assume. Would 6AWG be sufficient? Not concerned about voltage loss...it's just to charge the battery.

3. Done!

4. Mine does not have a negative bus. Just six blade fuse Terminals.

5. Ok. Will not ground to anything other than start batt and lfp batt.

6. AC charger is a victron blue smart, 120vAC, 15amp. It's just to charge the battery. It would only be connected if the vehicle was off. I've put a circuit breaker on the dc line to + Bus bar. So I need to disconnect the dc charger if my vehicle is off and I'm on AC power?
I'll read up further on the grounding...

Thank you for the bassistance!

You work quick! Nice new diagram.
1. Wire sizing is based on the max expected loads. Your battery also probably has a max discharge rate, probably 100A? Looking at your diagram, the battery could flow 84A to the inverter at 1000W, if inverter has a long boost ability like 1500W for 10 min, I'd rate the cables for that--whatever max flow is. To the dc fuseblock, your label says 100A max, so thats your limit even if you add more stuff later. From the BlueSea wire chart, 100A can go on 4AWG depending on distance, these should be short runs. Bumping up to 2awg gets you to 120A. 1awg gives 150A, you shouldn't need that per your diagram. HOWEVER, 1000W is a pretty weak inverter, 1500W is 125A, and 2000W is 167A, and totally reasonable on 12V and lets you run the standard 1800W induction cooktop, a smal microwave, a blender, and a standard 1L electric kettle, all at 1400-1800W. SOOO... if you stick with 1000W inverter, 4awg fine. If you future proof it for the 2000W one I'd use, then 2/0awg.
2. Car audio guys do that a lot. They don't have to teouble shoot complex grounding issues from a house battery system and 10 appliances. They are bonding the same physical hunk of metal chassis usually, just back of cab, that the alternator is bolted to. Not a rear chunk bolted onto frame. I've seen one video where audio guys measured better return flow via chassis... on ONE CAR, ONE MEASUREMENT.
I made a video on what wire size for alternator charging on Tacoma, and even referenced the Victron 12 12 30, so give your exact answer there. I think it was 4? Here, watch this:

But when charging your battery is EXACTLY when you don't want voltage drop! If 12 12 30 is near alternator, you want to keep the charge volt high or it won't fully recharge house lifepo4. If charger is near house battery, then voltage drop from alternator will make alternator work harder than needed. Baby that alternator, stay below 65% max load when charging if at all able. 30A charger is max I can put on my 130A Tacoma alternator.
4. Are you sure on dc fuseblock? Are you not using this bluesea one, all the negative load lines bolt onto the fuseblock, so it IS a busbar...
Blue Sea Systems 5026 ST Blade Fuse Block 12 Circuit with Ground and Cover https://a.co/d/dJUgrGC
6. Hmm, if you are only using Ac shore power to deliver dc charge to battery, should be ok. The issue is when folks wire an AC bus in their camper, which they plug into shore power and then it flows to their ac sockets if plugged in, and then they plug a charger into that to power dc batteries. Then the ac ground bond flows back through wires to a CB panel. In your case, if just plugging in a dc charger to batteries, you should be fine. Just think about this if you decide to make some kind of extension cord to socket setup one clever day...
Hope that helps!

 

[RV8R]

Hi @Taco Supremo

I glanced @ your thread, but will post this link on another for your consideration of “equipment”.

Post in thread 'Ground questions for a 12v truck camper system'
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/ground-questions-for-a-12v-truck-camper-system.81487/post-1050832


The safety Hub 150 might be a fuse block you could use ;




Here is a link to a Portable Solar Charger I made ( Might give you ideas );

Portable Solar Charger

So recently I cobbled together a box to basically utilize a Victron 100 | 50 MPPT Solar Charger. Why 🤷‍♂️? ,,, Well the first 100|50 worked very well until one day when about to hook up the alligator clamps, I stood “red 2 red” & “black 2 black” & while pondering the tiny spark I was...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Taco Supremo]

You work quick! Nice new diagram.
1. Wire sizing is based on the max expected loads. Your battery also probably has a max discharge rate, probably 100A? Looking at your diagram, the battery could flow 84A to the inverter at 1000W, if inverter has a long boost ability like 1500W for 10 min, I'd rate the cables for that--whatever max flow is. To the dc fuseblock, your label says 100A max, so thats your limit even if you add more stuff later. From the BlueSea wire chart, 100A can go on 4AWG depending on distance, these should be short runs. Bumping up to 2awg gets you to 120A. 1awg gives 150A, you shouldn't need that per your diagram. HOWEVER, 1000W is a pretty weak inverter, 1500W is 125A, and 2000W is 167A, and totally reasonable on 12V and lets you run the standard 1800W induction cooktop, a smal microwave, a blender, and a standard 1L electric kettle, all at 1400-1800W. SOOO... if you stick with 1000W inverter, 4awg fine. If you future proof it for the 2000W one I'd use, then 2/0awg.
2. Car audio guys do that a lot. They don't have to teouble shoot complex grounding issues from a house battery system and 10 appliances. They are bonding the same physical hunk of metal chassis usually, just back of cab, that the alternator is bolted to. Not a rear chunk bolted onto frame. I've seen one video where audio guys measured better return flow via chassis... on ONE CAR, ONE MEASUREMENT.
I made a video on what wire size for alternator charging on Tacoma, and even referenced the Victron 12 12 30, so give your exact answer there. I think it was 4? Here, watch this:

But when charging your battery is EXACTLY when you don't want voltage drop! If 12 12 30 is near alternator, you want to keep the charge volt high or it won't fully recharge house lifepo4. If charger is near house battery, then voltage drop from alternator will make alternator work harder than needed. Baby that alternator, stay below 65% max load when charging if at all able. 30A charger is max I can put on my 130A Tacoma alternator.
4. Are you sure on dc fuseblock? Are you not using this bluesea one, all the negative load lines bolt onto the fuseblock, so it IS a busbar...
Blue Sea Systems 5026 ST Blade Fuse Block 12 Circuit with Ground and Cover https://a.co/d/dJUgrGC
6. Hmm, if you are only using Ac shore power to deliver dc charge to battery, should be ok. The issue is when folks wire an AC bus in their camper, which they plug into shore power and then it flows to their ac sockets if plugged in, and then they plug a charger into that to power dc batteries. Then the ac ground bond flows back through wires to a CB panel. In your case, if just plugging in a dc charger to batteries, you should be fine. Just think about this if you decide to make some kind of extension cord to socket setup one clever day...
Hope that helps!

Thanks again, Dave! Very helpful information.

1. Ok. I'm going to size the wires from battery to inverter for a 2000W just in case. Yes, i ordered a litime 100ah and it has a 100a max discharge rate but a 300a-500a 5 sec. burst! Crazy. I'm a bit unclear how I could run a 2000W inverter anyway if it would pull 167a???
2. I'm just going to run the negative right back to the starter battery with 4AWG as per your note and the paper on grounding. Did you run a paired 4AWG or run both separately? I'm not looking forward to finding space along my kickplate for 2 - 4AWG wires. lol. Great video...I loved my Access Cab (had a 2014)! The DC charger will be located right at the end of the line, in the milk crate with the house battery so very short run from charger to house battery but about 15ft from starter battery to DC charger. I definitely want to baby the alternator. In hindsight, i might have leaned to a 20A DC charger...
4. I'm using this fuse block...https://www.bluesea.com/products/5028/ST_Blade_Fuse_Block_-_6_Circuits_with_Cover
6. Thanks again. Yes, after reviewing the paper on grounding, I'll definitely pause before mixing any circuits as you've mentioned. the intent of this build was to power my 12V fridge and a few small devices for 5-6 days minimum while remote camping in my 4x4 so AC use will be strictly charging purposes. I'll be cutting the circuit to my starter battery before connecting to charge with the AC.

Happy Friday! :D

 

[Dave in AZ]

Thanks again, Dave! Very helpful information.

1. Ok. I'm going to size the wires from battery to inverter for a 2000W just in case. Yes, i ordered a litime 100ah and it has a 100a max discharge rate but a 300a-500a 5 sec. burst! Crazy. I'm a bit unclear how I could run a 2000W inverter anyway if it would pull 167a???
2. I'm just going to run the negative right back to the starter battery with 4AWG as per your note and the paper on grounding. Did you run a paired 4AWG or run both separately? I'm not looking forward to finding space along my kickplate for 2 - 4AWG wires. lol. Great video...I loved my Access Cab (had a 2014)! The DC charger will be located right at the end of the line, in the milk crate with the house battery so very short run from charger to house battery but about 15ft from starter battery to DC charger. I definitely want to baby the alternator. In hindsight, i might have leaned to a 20A DC charger...
4. I'm using this fuse block...https://www.bluesea.com/products/5028/ST_Blade_Fuse_Block_-_6_Circuits_with_Cover
6. Thanks again. Yes, after reviewing the paper on grounding, I'll definitely pause before mixing any circuits as you've mentioned. the intent of this build was to power my 12V fridge and a few small devices for 5-6 days minimum while remote camping in my 4x4 so AC use will be strictly charging purposes. I'll be cutting the circuit to my starter battery before connecting to charge with the AC.

Happy Friday! :D

1. Well you obviously can't run 2000w on a 100A flow battery... but one of the things Will Prowse ( owner of this forum) stresses, is to not plan your system to become obsolete as you grow. Everyone uses more battery and more inverter than initially planned, as your usage grows. So plan the wores and fuses and switches to support that growth, so it doesn't all have to get thrown out. For $180 you can buy another 12v 100Ah battery and double the capacity of your system, allowing you to easily run a 2000W inverter. Weighs 19 lbs now, size of a toaster, mini. Sooner or later you will buy one and add it!
2. I can't keep up on your wires or what we said before, read that grounding pdf. Run a black negative ftom 2nd battery back to the dcdc charger. Run another negative from dcdc charger to starter battery. I've answered so many similar posts last 2 days, I'm gonna say just read the pdf.

I will note... I have 1536Wh, 2000W inverter, 700W and 100W solar or car or other dc input, 1400W AC charging... all in a small power station for $799 I can carry around. For truck camping, Consider the ease of just buying a mobile power station. I've got 12v battery setup too, but the Pecron power station I have is now in my new Tune camper...

 

[RV8R]

@Taco Supremo ,,, Red Deer Eh ?

I love Victron & Blue Sea stuff.

Simple is better than more complicated.

I also really like Kisae Dual DC2DC Alternator & Solar Chargers ,,, very “User Programable”.

Not sure if you have already purchased items, but I highly recommend you attempt to complete your design before buying your equipment etc.

“Load Calculations” or an “Energy Audit” whatever DIYers are calling them these days, are a pretty good exercise to help you understand your needs / wants. Here are a couple of examples I did for others;




Regarding designing & building for the future ,,, Yup buy & build for “upgrading” down the road ,,, wire size etc ,,, sometimes pulling in #2 AWG instead of what works #4 AWG seems like a waste of money @ the time for example ,,, until you upgrade a year down the road & the #2 AWG is already there & in place ,,, like that Portable Solar Charger I made & used #6 AWG to the Victron ,,, why ,,, because that was the largest gauge the 100 | 50 MPPT can take ,,, had zero to do with voltage drop or amps .

Inverters from 12vdc ,,, This is a pretty rough way of looking at it, but a 2000W inverter just drop a zero off the end & you get 200 amps. Not accurate, but you get the idea ,,, depends what the rating is & continuous or peak ,,, but I assume you get the idea.

Keep the inverter as close to the batteries as possible & as big a wire as practical. Sometimes these dual fuse holders on top of your battery positive can be useful for inverter off one fuse & main connection to switch to the other side of your system;

 

[Taco Supremo]

@Taco Supremo ,,, Red Deer Eh ?

I love Victron & Blue Sea stuff.

Simple is better than more complicated.

I also really like Kisae Dual DC2DC Alternator & Solar Chargers ,,, very “User Programable”.

Not sure if you have already purchased items, but I highly recommend you attempt to complete your design before buying your equipment etc.

“Load Calculations” or an “Energy Audit” whatever DIYers are calling them these days, are a pretty good exercise to help you understand your needs / wants. Here are a couple of examples I did for others;

View attachment 205657


Regarding designing & building for the future ,,, Yup buy & build for “upgrading” down the road ,,, wire size etc ,,, sometimes pulling in #2 AWG instead of what works #4 AWG seems like a waste of money @ the time for example ,,, until you upgrade a year down the road & the #2 AWG is already there & in place ,,, like that Portable Solar Charger I made & used #6 AWG to the Victron ,,, why ,,, because that was the largest gauge the 100 | 50 MPPT can take ,,, had zero to do with voltage drop or amps .

Inverters from 12vdc ,,, This is a pretty rough way of looking at it, but a 2000W inverter just drop a zero off the end & you get 200 amps. Not accurate, but you get the idea ,,, depends what the rating is & continuous or peak ,,, but I assume you get the idea.

Keep the inverter as close to the batteries as possible & as big a wire as practical. Sometimes these dual fuse holders on top of your battery positive can be useful for inverter off one fuse & main connection to switch to the other side of your system;

View attachment 205659

Hey there....thanks for the reply and the great information. Yeah, Red Deer. lol. I've only been here a few months now. Met a girl from here and she can't leave right now as she co-parents from here. Victoria, eh!? Lucky guy. Beautiful place. I have an aunt and uncle up the road in Port Renfrew.

I'm going to move to the Kisae and I love the idea of the MRBF fuses! Both will save me a ton of space in my build. The milk crate would be looking tight with the separate vitron components and the anl fuses etc. And, I really like the idea of only drawing 20a from my alternator. Litime states an ideal charge current of 20a and 14.4v. Not sure how the LFP charging works..need to learn more about that still.

The only possible upgrade would be a move from my tent into a trailer for my camp setup but that would involve a disassembly of the milk crate and new wiring etc. anyway. I am going to size for the bigger inverter though as per Dave's suggestion.

Thanks again!

 

[RV8R]

Hey there....thanks for the reply and the great information. Yeah, Red Deer. lol. I've only been here a few months now. Met a girl from here and she can't leave right now as she co-parents from here. Victoria, eh!? Lucky guy. Beautiful place. I have an aunt and uncle up the road in Port Renfrew.

I'm going to move to the Kisae and I love the idea of the MRBF fuses! Both will save me a ton of space in my build. The milk crate would be looking tight with the separate vitron components and the anl fuses etc. And, I really like the idea of only drawing 20a from my alternator. Litime states an ideal charge current of 20a and 14.4v. Not sure how the LFP charging works..need to learn more about that still.

The only possible upgrade would be a move from my tent into a trailer for my camp setup but that would involve a disassembly of the milk crate and new wiring etc. anyway. I am going to size for the bigger inverter though as per Dave's suggestion.

Thanks again!

Cool

Kisae 1250 ,,, BTW Kisae has a new 12100 out or coming out 100 amps capable;

Regardless, the Kisae “Tech” guy “Ricardo” is in Surrey BC & is absolutely awesome ,,, best customer service I have had in decades ,, top shelf.

https://www.kisaepower.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/AbsoCharger_Manual_DMT12V_24V-Series_Rev-D_190612_Print.pdf

All chemistries, but also the “blue” below is Program “User Settable” ,,, just get your battery charge profile & “dial it in”

 

[RV8R]

Your neg bus could be a piece of copper bolted to the load side of your shunt.

I sometimes use a 4 way switch Blue Sea 9001e as a dual switch & positive bus ,,, might work for you depending upon configuration & final equipment choices

You might be able to simplify the design once sorted ,,, the pos off the shunt can go to the battery pos terminal as they usually have an inline fuse & if the battery is switched then the shunt stays alive.

Still, Best to perform the final design before buying anything . Completing the design is a real learning process, but worth it. Then comes the layout .

 

[0truck0]

side note... I have never connected (breaker switch) the camper batteries to the alternator. Solar has always been enough. Consider changing your solar panels to min 200 watts of permanent on-the-roof glass, 400 if they fit, and the alternator will only be for backup or weeks of clouds.
I have also never charged from a plug-in charger, solar has always been enough.

 

[Taco Supremo]

Cool

Kisae 1250 ,,, BTW Kisae has a new 12100 out or coming out 100 amps capable;

Regardless, the Kisae “Tech” guy “Ricardo” is in Surrey BC & is absolutely awesome ,,, best customer service I have had in decades ,, top shelf.

https://www.kisaepower.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/AbsoCharger_Manual_DMT12V_24V-Series_Rev-D_190612_Print.pdf

View attachment 205720




All chemistries, but also the “blue” below is Program “User Settable” ,,, just get your battery charge profile & “dial it in”

View attachment 205721

Ricardo, eh? I'll keep him in mind.

Thanks for all the info! The 20a should be perfect and not stressful on the alternator. And fit in my crate!

 

[Taco Supremo]

Your neg bus could be a piece of copper bolted to the load side of your shunt.

I sometimes use a 4 way switch Blue Sea 9001e as a dual switch & positive bus ,,, might work for you depending upon configuration & final equipment choices

You might be able to simplify the design once sorted ,,, the pos off the shunt can go to the battery pos terminal as they usually have an inline fuse & if the battery is switched then the shunt stays alive.

Still, Best to perform the final design before buying anything . Completing the design is a real learning process, but worth it. Then comes the layout .

Can we chat about how you grounded the dmt1250 as per the instructions? I'm a bit conflicted after reading the paper that Dave linked me to.

It reads like I should ground the metal case of the charger to my vehicle chassis. I'm fine doing that, just wanting to confirm what I think I read. In a previous thread, I was having an exchange with Dave around the neutral for my system as I had originally planned to "ground" to the chassis as I've done numerous times in car audio applications. Apparently, incorrectly.

As this application requires periodically removal of the milk crate, I'd have to run the ground through a quick disconnect of some kind similar to what I'm going to do with the hot and neutral off the start battery as it connects to the milk crate hardware.

And, for the shunt, I've decided to just use the Bluetooth BMS off the litime for the battery data I'm looking for...thoughts on that?

 

[RV8R]

Can we chat about how you grounded the dmt1250 as per the instructions? I'm a bit conflicted after reading the paper that Dave linked me to.

It reads like I should ground the metal case of the charger to my vehicle chassis. I'm fine doing that, just wanting to confirm what I think I read. In a previous thread, I was having an exchange with Dave around the neutral for my system as I had originally planned to "ground" to the chassis as I've done numerous times in car audio applications. Apparently, incorrectly.

As this application requires periodically removal of the milk crate, I'd have to run the ground through a quick disconnect of some kind similar to what I'm going to do with the hot and neutral off the start battery as it connects to the milk crate hardware.

And, for the shunt, I've decided to just use the Bluetooth BMS off the litime for the battery data I'm looking for...thoughts on that?

Sure

So Ground / Earth / utilizing the chassis as a negative return path to close a common circuit ,,, are all different things.

If you buy a Kisae, I would run your intentions by “Ricardo” @ Kisae. Technically, I have run a “ground” from the ground lug of the metal Kisae box to the chassis. Safety issue metal case.

I already had ( previously alternator charging system in my Promaster ) “chassis negative returned” to complete that charge circuit thru the chassis. So I still use that with my Kisae “after” I got it “sanctioned” by Kisae. I could have run a big thick black wire back to the starter negative terminal I suppose, however the voltage drop of the van steel chassis is less & the resistance is less.

My DIY van electrical system does not have any other connections to the van chassis. All other loads etc are “home run” back to the 12vdc panel ( red & black wires ). I do not have any other “grounds”.


The terms “Hot” & “Neutral” sound Vac to me ,,, so let’s use Positive (red) & Negative (black) to describe your 12vdc wires ( otherwise I will get screwed up ).

The best way to sort this out is by electrical schematic. If you draw what you intend to do & post it you can get this design vetted out here by experts and then “sanctioned” by Kisae “Ricardo”.

For distribution wiring or loads wiring, it is best to home run ( 2 - wires ) ( red & black ) & not utilize the chassis for the black neg return path ,,, it can cause issues.


Shunt; Sounds like you are deleting the “Shunt” & just using the BMS for data ,,, seems reasonable to me - caveat, depends on what the BMS is going to do for you for data, but if it basically gets you the same info / history no need for a “shunt”. Less & Simple is better ,, especially in a system you are proposing.

Quick Connects; on my portable solar charger, you can see I have some “Anderson” style 50amp rated quick connects. I think that is what you are referring to.

 

[Taco Supremo]

Sure

So Ground / Earth / utilizing the chassis as a negative return path to close a common circuit ,,, are all different things.

If you buy a Kisae, I would run your intentions by “Ricardo” @ Kisae. Technically, I have run a “ground” from the ground lug of the metal Kisae box to the chassis. Safety issue metal case.

I already had ( previously alternator charging system in my Promaster ) “chassis negative returned” to complete that charge circuit thru the chassis. So I still use that with my Kisae “after” I got it “sanctioned” by Kisae. I could have run a big thick black wire back to the starter negative terminal I suppose, however the voltage drop of the van steel chassis is less & the resistance is less.

My DIY van electrical system does not have any other connections to the van chassis. All other loads etc are “home run” back to the 12vdc panel ( red & black wires ). I do not have any other “grounds”.


The terms “Hot” & “Neutral” sound Vac to me ,,, so let’s use Positive (red) & Negative (black) to describe your 12vdc wires ( otherwise I will get screwed up ).

The best way to sort this out is by electrical schematic. If you draw what you intend to do & post it you can get this design vetted out here by experts and then “sanctioned” by Kisae “Ricardo”.

For distribution wiring or loads wiring, it is best to home run ( 2 - wires ) ( red & black ) & not utilize the chassis for the black neg return path ,,, it can cause issues.


Shunt; Sounds like you are deleting the “Shunt” & just using the BMS for data ,,, seems reasonable to me - caveat, depends on what the BMS is going to do for you for data, but if it basically gets you the same info / history no need for a “shunt”. Less & Simple is better ,, especially in a system you are proposing.

Quick Connects; on my portable solar charger, you can see I have some “Anderson” style 50amp rated quick connects. I think that is what you are referring to.

Happy Easter! Soo, I modified my schematic. Any thoughts or suggestions? The green ground would connect from the ground screw on the case of the Kisae to a screw attached to the body under the seat. I plan on homerunning everything back to the neutral on the start battery as per the diagram. Just need to determine main inverter wire size. I'm guessing ill size to a 2000w inverter as per Dave's suggestion.

One thing that's not noted on the diagram is the factory wire that goes from the neutral in the start battery to the body of the truck.

 

[Dave in AZ]

Happy Easter! Soo, I modified my schematic. Any thoughts or suggestions? The green ground would connect from the ground screw on the case of the Kisae to a screw attached to the body under the seat. I plan on homerunning everything back to the neutral on the start battery as per the diagram. Just need to determine main inverter wire size. I'm guessing ill size to a 2000w inverter as per Dave's suggestion.

One thing that's not noted on the diagram is the factory wire that goes from the neutral in the start battery to the body of the truck.

I don't want to lead you astray. There were 3 threads all ongoing where folks wanted a basic system for their suv or truck. Anyways, inverter size... larger ones usually take more parasitic power to run. You're making a power station, I forgot that, so you can only fit a 100Ah battery in there anyways, with a 100A max output. So that is just 1200-1300 Watts at max. I was thinking you were doing a 2nd battery hardwired system, where adding another 100Ah battery would be easy, but you're not. So, a 1000W inverter is all you can supply anyways, will be cheaper, and depending on what you buy will have less energy cost.
Not sure what parts you'll use. Some nice combo things like ac charger plus inverter, but they are pretty expensice, $500 and up. Considering you can buy a Pecron e1500LFP, 1536 Watt-hrs and 2000 W inverter, for $750, you have to be careful of the component costs or you're just throwing $$ away.

 

[Taco Supremo]

I don't want to lead you astray. There were 3 threads all ongoing where folks wanted a basic system for their suv or truck. Anyways, inverter size... larger ones usually take more parasitic power to run. You're making a power station, I forgot that, so you can only fit a 100Ah battery in there anyways, with a 100A max output. So that is just 1200-1300 Watts at max. I was thinking you were doing a 2nd battery hardwired system, where adding another 100Ah battery would be easy, but you're not. So, a 1000W inverter is all you can supply anyways, will be cheaper, and depending on what you buy will have less energy cost.
Not sure what parts you'll use. Some nice combo things like ac charger plus inverter, but they are pretty expensice, $500 and up. Considering you can buy a Pecron e1500LFP, 1536 Watt-hrs and 2000 W inverter, for $750, you have to be careful of the component costs or you're just throwing $$ away.

That pecron is an amazing deal. Wow! Definitely look at one of those...

 

[RV8R]

Happy Easter! Soo, I modified my schematic. Any thoughts or suggestions? The green ground would connect from the ground screw on the case of the Kisae to a screw attached to the body under the seat. I plan on homerunning everything back to the neutral on the start battery as per the diagram. Just need to determine main inverter wire size. I'm guessing ill size to a 2000w inverter as per Dave's suggestion.

One thing that's not noted on the diagram is the factory wire that goes from the neutral in the start battery to the body of the truck.

Hi @Taco Supremo

Looks Good

A couple of pointers;

Buy a Blue Sea fuse block with a “negative” distributive bus & buy 2-wire (red / black) marine grade wire;






Ancor is another decent brant. Note the above wire is 2-wire red / black “flat cable” & the rating spec is written on the right side “UL”


The Kisae negative is “internally bus’d”. CH3 & CH1 you only need one negative “black” wire going to one of those terminals to your negative bus . In your case, would run the negative from your starter battery “quick connect” with the positive “red” & have that wire go directly to CH3.

You did not show the positive from the 120Vac charger to the positive bus.

You might use this dual battery terminal fuse holder on your positive terminal & wire it; 1 fuse for inverter & 1 fuse to your positive bus.


Or If You need 3 fuses there is this bus;









There is also the Blue Sea “Safety Hub 150” ,,, that could be utilized;







Decisions / Decisions ,,, I think in your case, I would be using the “dual fuse” terminal on to of the battery positive & The Safety Hub 150;

1 fuse to the inverter
1 fuse to the Safety Hub 150 & tying in everything, other than the inverter to the safety hub.

Makes a clean install. The Safety Hub is good for a max of 200 amps & can take your charge input & distribution outputs.

As I believe a picture is worth 1,000 words, here ya go, my finger painting “butcher” schematic of what I am trying to convey to ya ;



The red cloud & red hatch marks are the “Safety Hub 150”

Sorry for “the hack job”, & added expense, but IMO the safety hub combines your both pos & neg bus & fuse block ( 10 circuits total ) & makes the wiring less complicated ,,, might even be cheaper when you add up what it delete from your original schematic. ,,, Also allows utilization of typically inexpensive fuses .



TLTR ? ,,, Buy a Blue Sea Safety Hub 150

 

[RV8R]

I mentioned this before @Taco Supremo

Neutral is a term used in AC “Alternating Current” wiring. ( AC wire is Black - Hot / bare copper - ground / Neutral - White ).

For DC “Direct Current” I do not believe there is a “Neutral” ,,, there is ( Positive - Red ) & ( Negative - Black ).

I’m only repeating myself here, as with electrical “terms” are important & if you're here to learn, it should be the correct term ,,, Now in saying all this I am no electrician & can be wrong, but I am at least stating what I believe to be true;




I also know old habits are hard to break.


In DC wiring the “Negative” is sometimes referred to as “Common” ,,, so I understand why you are using an “AC” term.