Alberta Lithium

[Levo]

I just emailed him, sounds like a pretty good deal. He told me that he uses Rept cells.....I'm no expert.....but I've not heard that brand

I just emailed him, sounds like a pretty good deal. He told me that he uses Rept cells.....I'm no expert.....but I've not heard that brand

I have put in an order for a 12v 280Ah battery, hoping to get it in a couple of weeks. It's a leap of faith I know, so I shall post something when I know more. Browneye urged me to build, but the Chinese suppliers had suspended deliveries here and I do not want to wait around hoping for something by May or June! AB Lithium has been sold out of the 280Ah for months and just sold out of 100Ah, so they have supply problems.
I have seen Rept cell for sale on a couple of sites. Can't say I have the knowledge or experience to distinguish between brands.

 

[ChrisCarr]

I have put in an order for a 12v 280Ah battery, hoping to get it in a couple of weeks. It's a leap of faith I know, so I shall post something when I know more. Browneye urged me to build, but the Chinese suppliers had suspended deliveries here and I do not want to wait around hoping for something by May or June! AB Lithium has been sold out of the 280Ah for months and just sold out of 100Ah, so they have supply problems.
I have seen Rept cell for sale on a couple of sites. Can't say I have the knowledge or experience to distinguish between brands.

I think I've decided to order one from him as well.....kinda scary giving some random guy from Kijiji a deposit LOL.
I did however find some post's from him on here and it sounds like he knows his stuff.

 

[Levo]

I think I've decided to order one from him as well.....kinda scary giving some random guy from Kijiji a deposit LOL.
I did however find some post's from him on here and it sounds like he knows his stuff.

Yes indeed. By sending a deposit, I have broken with my normal anti-scamming protocol. I decided to proceed because in our phone conversation, everything he (Elias) said regarding components (BMS etc.) and technical references all made sense to me. He clearly Knows lots about this whole LiFePO4 battery stuff. He even knows about AB Lithium and what they have been selling.

I'll search this forum for any other references. Please direct me to any you find. I shall certainly post any update on my order.

 

[ChrisCarr]

Yes indeed. By sending a deposit, I have broken with my normal anti-scamming protocol. I decided to proceed because in our phone conversation, everything he (Elias) said regarding components (BMS etc.) and technical references all made sense to me. He clearly Knows lots about this whole LiFePO4 battery stuff. He even knows about AB Lithium and what they have been selling.
That said, none of this is proof of integrity, but I should know around Mid march when my battery is supposed to be ready. The day I ordered, we messaged on Kijiji and then texted back and forth. As soon as he said he accepted Paypal (a good sign, I think) I agreed to pay him that way. Presumably that makes him more traceable and comes with Paypal's promise (for what it's worth) to help resolve disputes.
Years ago, I bought a $1700 guitar on eBay. At that time they offered an "escrow" service, so the money was held by eBay until I received the guitar. It worked out fine.
I'll search this forum for any other references. Please direct me to any you find. I shall certainly post any update on my order.

By chance did you ask Elias what app he uses for the BMS's? I know there are a few that will work.....but apparently some do not give you the options to change peramiters. I downloaded the little elephant app, but id does not look like the ones i've seen on U-tube. Trying really hard not to bombard him with emails with questions LOL

 

[Levo]

To be honest I am really not up to speed on the whole bluetooth thing and what apps are what, so have not focused on those details. I believe he currently uses JBD for BMS. I assumed each BMS (if bluetooth capable) would have it's own dedicated app. Is that not so?
Happy to say he texted me today to advise my battery build was under way, so shall ask him when we next communicate, hopefully in the coming days.

 

[ChrisCarr]

To be honest I am really not up to speed on the whole bluetooth thing and what apps are what, so have not focused on those details. I believe he currently uses JBD for BMS. I assumed each BMS (if bluetooth capable) would have it's own dedicated app. Is that not so?
Happy to say he texted me today to advise my battery build was under way, so shall ask him when we next communicate, hopefully in the coming days.

You are correct, he uses JBD bms's with Bluetooth.
Just heard from him as well, must be working on both of ours at the same time.
Told me he uses the Xiaoxiang app from overkillsolar.com.
I downloaded that and the "Blue Elephant" app just to play with.....not sure which will work better but thought I'd try them both out.

 

[Levo]

You are correct, he uses JBD bms's with Bluetooth.
Just heard from him as well, must be working on both of ours at the same time.
Told me he uses the Xiaoxiang app from overkillsolar.com.
I downloaded that and the "Blue Elephant" app just to play with.....not sure which will work better but thought I'd try them both out.

Just got my 12V 280Ah battery pack from Grande Prairie yesterday and all looks good so far. Voltage is at 13.34, cells balanced within a millivolt or two. The Xiaoxiang iPhone app shows the same readings as my meter, so apparently accurate, but it is view only. Shall check other options later as now I have work to do!
Did you get your battery pack? What size/voltage?

 

[ChrisCarr]

Just got my 12V 280Ah battery pack from Grande Prairie yesterday and all looks good so far. Voltage is at 13.34, cells balanced within a millivolt or two. The Xiaoxiang iPhone app shows the same readings as my meter, so apparently accurate, but it is view only. Shall check other options later as now I have work to do!
Did you get your battery pack? What size/voltage?

Hey sorry, just noticed this now.
Yup I got my 280 AH 12 volt battery last week. All the cells seem to be ballanced within .002 of a volt and the build quality looks excellent.
I'm in the middle of a few other repairs in the motorhome so haven't had a chance to install it yet and give er a good workout....hopefully in the next week or so here. Have you tried yours out?

 

[Levo]

Hey sorry, just noticed this now.
Yup I got my 280 AH 12 volt battery last week. All the cells seem to be ballanced within .002 of a volt and the build quality looks excellent.
I'm in the middle of a few other repairs in the motorhome so haven't had a chance to install it yet and give er a good workout....hopefully in the next week or so here. Have you tried yours out?

No, full upgrade from 2 x 6v FLA in progress, new 60A SCC and 40A DC-DC charger, so just re-positioning things and re-wiring. Shall post when the lights go back on!

 

[RF_Burns]

FYI, I reconnected my two Alberta Lithium batteries this past weekend after leaving them disconnected for the winter (5 months total). I checked their voltage every couple of weeks and over the whole time they have dropped less than 0.1V each. Compare to the Lead Acid chassis battery which was also disconnected, I had to put it on the charger several times over the winter.

I've been installing LED's into all the cupboards and storage areas over the winter, so now I'm running the lights inside from the batteries while I clean up the LED wiring etc. The voltage has dropped only 0.1V with about 16hrs use and a draw of 3-5 amps, so I'd say they survived the winter storage with no issues.

 

[RF_Burns]

Thanks for the battery specs. Great to hear the Renogy charger works so well. Their specs say 14.1-14.7v, so should align nicely with the battery spec, even if the BMS stops the charge at 14.2. I already have 500w panels and Renogy charge controller, so won't buy the MPPT model.
One more question: How did you select charger size? Renogy support said to install no more than 40% of alternator rating. I'll likely buy the 40A model. My alternator is 160A, so I suppose I could install the 60 amp charger, but don't want to overheat the alternator.

I'm a bit late with this reply, sorry. A DC-DC charger will consume more current than it is outputting for 2 reasons. 1) The circuitry to increase the output voltage from say 13.5 to 14.4 consumes some power. 2) a lower input voltage requires more current than a higher output voltage for the same watts. IE charging at 40a @ 14.4V = 576 watts / 13.5V = ~43Amps plus the power from reason #1. So a 40Amp DC-DC charger could consume 50Amps on the input side, so you must take that into count.

The Renogy DC-DC chargers have a Low-Power mode which cuts the charging current in half. I find this handy if I'm heading out for a full day of driving. If the batteries are up from the shore-power charging, I can reduce the DC-DC charging in half and still stay ahead of the loads (electric fridge etc). So a 40Amp can be set set to 20Amps and a 60 reduced to 30Amps. Remember the larger the charger current the heavier the wiring you need.

I'm thinking 40amp would be a good choice.

 

[Levo]

I'm a bit late with this reply, sorry. A DC-DC charger will consume more current than it is outputting for 2 reasons. 1) The circuitry to increase the output voltage from say 13.5 to 14.4 consumes some power. 2) a lower input voltage requires more current than a higher output voltage for the same watts. IE charging at 40a @ 14.4V = 576 watts / 13.5V = ~43Amps plus the power from reason #1. So a 40Amp DC-DC charger could consume 50Amps on the input side, so you must take that into count.

The Renogy DC-DC chargers have a Low-Power mode which cuts the charging current in half. I find this handy if I'm heading out for a full day of driving. If the batteries are up from the shore-power charging, I can reduce the DC-DC charging in half and still stay ahead of the loads (electric fridge etc). So a 40Amp can be set set to 20Amps and a 60 reduced to 30Amps. Remember the larger the charger current the heavier the wiring you need.

I'm thinking 40amp would be a good choice.

Yes indeed, current increases on the input side, clearly understood. I bought the 40A model and plan to wire with 6AWG (heavy enough I hope) and a 60A fuse.
Trying to decide on installation at the back of the truck or front of the trailer. Would like to connect the on/off and current halving functions to switches in the truck cab. If I install in the trailer, that means 2 more conductors to run, and a 4-pin 50A arrangement rather than just an Anderson plug or similar.
Renogy says "close as possible to the house battery". Wondering if there would be too much voltage drop if I install in the back of the truck (much easier for control switches). Options below show the distances. Thanks.

 

[Levo]

Sorry if I have strayed off topic some. Regarding AB Lithium; after positive remarks from you folks, I wanted to buy their 280Ah battery, but it was out of stock for months, and given all the uncertainty and delays with deliveries from China, opted not to import cells myself. So I responded to this ad on Kijiji and ordered.
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-other/grande-prairie/lithium-battery-packs/1581996362
As promised, the 4-cell pack arrived mid-late March. According to the JBD bluetooth app and my meter, voltages and balance etc. are all really good. I just finished all the wiring and installation yesterday. Drew 129A (microwave oven) for about 3 minutes with no issues; so far so good! I am not set up to do real capacity testing, but I have time to put it through it's paces before camping season starts (not until May here!)

 

[RF_Burns]

Yes indeed, current increases on the input side, clearly understood. I bought the 40A model and plan to wire with 6AWG (heavy enough I hope) and a 60A fuse.
Trying to decide on installation at the back of the truck or front of the trailer. Would like to connect the on/off and current halving functions to switches in the truck cab. If I install in the trailer, that means 2 more conductors to run, and a 4-pin 50A arrangement rather than just an Anderson plug or similar.
Renogy says "close as possible to the house battery". Wondering if there would be too much voltage drop if I install in the back of the truck (much easier for control switches). Options below show the distances. Thanks.

Here is my experience. I had the new LiFePO4 (LFP) batteries installed in the OEM house battery location in our motorhome. Between the Samlex EVO-1212 charger/inverter and the batteries was about 6ft of #4 and about 8Ft of #0 cable on the positive side and about 6 Ft of #4 plus the aluminum fame on the ground side. Charging at a rate of 40 amps I was losing about 0.4 volts. This was not a concern with Lead-Acid because the charge current and therefore the voltage drop in the wires, tapers off as the battery reaches full charge. With LFP batteries, 0.4 volts on the charge cycle makes a big difference.

So I moved the batteries right beside the charger. So now I have 4ft of #4 wire on each side, but with the Victron shunt, fuses and connectors I still have 50-75mV of voltage drop.

I'm not sure why the charger manufacturers do not include remote voltage sense terminals to compensate for this.

 

[JoeHam]

Renogy says "close as possible to the house battery". Wondering if there would be too much voltage drop if I install in the back of the truck.

See here :

Part 1: Choosing the Correct Wire Size for a DC Circuit - Blue Sea Systems

Engineering high quality marine electrical components for safety, reliability and performance

www.bluesea.com

 

[DaveF]

I have two Alberta Lithium TE12280s hooked up in parallel powering a Xantrex Freedom SW2012 charger/inverter for my off-grid cabin

I'm getting an approximate 36V spike in the system if they reach full charge while charging with a 80amp input current from two Morningstar MPPT Tristar solar charge controllers at anything over 14.1V.

This causes my inverter to shut down due to over-voltage and not reconnect until the solar panel output to the batteries is turned off.

The spike doesn't occur at lower input amperage or if the regulation voltage is set to 14.0V.

Otherwise, if charging at 14V they are performing as expected (which has been a big improvement over my big 2V lead-acid bank).

Anyone else seeing this spike?

AB's tech service suggested that https://sterling-power.com/products/alternator-open-circuit-protection-device would eliminate the spike.

 

[RF_Burns]

I have two Alberta Lithium TE12280s hooked up in parallel powering a Xantrex Freedom SW2012 charger/inverter for my off-grid cabin

I'm getting an approximate 36V spike in the system if they reach full charge while charging with a 80amp input current from two Morningstar MPPT Tristar solar charge controllers at anything over 14.1V.

This causes my inverter to shut down due to over-voltage and not reconnect until the solar panel output to the batteries is turned off.

The spike doesn't occur at lower input amperage or if the regulation voltage is set to 14.0V.

Otherwise, if charging at 14V they are performing as expected (which has been a big improvement over my big 2V lead-acid bank).

Anyone else seeing this spike?

AB's tech service suggested that https://sterling-power.com/products/alternator-open-circuit-protection-device would eliminate the spike.

I have two Alberta Lithium TE12100's in parallel with a Samlex EVO inverter/charger transfer switch in my classic 1977 GMC motorhome. I experienced this same issue the first time I charged them. I had the EVO set to 14.4V @ 40Amps (20 amps to each). My EVO went into Over Voltage Alarm. Checking the log, the voltage was still under 14.4 @ 40 amps charging when this happened.

I did some troubleshooting and it would happen consistently at something just under 14.4v . I called Alberta Lithium and they told me that the BMS cut OFF because it was charged. What I really think is the BMS high-voltage cut-off is set low at about 14.4v so that the cells don't get pushed to the limit and the cells will last longer. At first I was concerned, but with further reading and understanding of LiFePO4 cells, I don't need to charge them to 100% all the time. In fact they will have a longer happy life charging to something like 95%. So I charge to 14.2V and let it absorb for 10 minutes, then float at 13.5V.

For the price I accept that they are likely not top rated prime cells, so treating them a bit easier will likely give me good service. Just my thoughts.

 

[Levo]

I have two Alberta Lithium TE12100's in parallel with a Samlex EVO inverter/charger transfer switch in my classic 1977 GMC motorhome. I experienced this same issue the first time I charged them. I had the EVO set to 14.4V @ 40Amps (20 amps to each). My EVO went into Over Voltage Alarm. Checking the log, the voltage was still under 14.4 @ 40 amps charging when this happened.

I did some troubleshooting and it would happen consistently at something just under 14.4v . I called Alberta Lithium and they told me that the BMS cut OFF because it was charged. What I really think is the BMS high-voltage cut-off is set low at about 14.4v so that the cells don't get pushed to the limit and the cells will last longer. At first I was concerned, but with further reading and understanding of LiFePO4 cells, I don't need to charge them to 100% all the time. In fact they will have a longer happy life charging to something like 95%. So I charge to 14.2V and let it absorb for 10 minutes, then float at 13.5V.

For the price I accept that they are likely not top rated prime cells, so treating them a bit easier will likely give me good service. Just my thoughts.

Glad to hear your AB Lithium batteries are holding their own and "wintered over" well. After what you had said previously, I tried to buy a 280Ah from them, but they were out of stock for months. I decided the DIY route was too long-winded with supply issues, so decided to answer this ad on Kijiji:
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-other/grande-prairie/lithium-battery-packs/1581996362
Definitely a home-made style battery, but the build is solid and initial "Stress tests" in my newly upgraded trailer system look good. I have been drawing 150A for 20 minutes (way more than I'll ever use at a stretch) with no issues. So far the value seems good, hope it outlasts me!

 

[RF_Burns]

Glad to hear your AB Lithium batteries are holding their own and "wintered over" well. After what you had said previously, I tried to buy a 280Ah from them, but they were out of stock for months. I decided the DIY route was too long-winded with supply issues, so decided to answer this ad on Kijiji:
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-other/grande-prairie/lithium-battery-packs/1581996362
Definitely a home-made style battery, but the build is solid and initial "Stress tests" in my newly upgraded trailer system look good. I have been drawing 150A for 20 minutes (way more than I'll ever use at a stretch) with no issues. So far the value seems good, hope it outlasts me!

Levo,
That battery pack looks well built. One bonus is you can access the BMS and the cells. My BMS does not have Bluetooth so I can't read it's internal battery stats, nor can I upgrade it without tearing it apart. I was in electronics all my life so I like to be able to access stuff. I've heard ABLithium will have a BT enabled BMS in the future.

 

[DaveF]

What I really think is the BMS high-voltage cut-off is set low at about 14.4v so that the cells don't get pushed to the limit and the cells will last longer. At first I was concerned, but with further reading and understanding of LiFePO4 cells, I don't need to charge them to 100% all the time. In fact they will have a longer happy life charging to something like 95%. So I charge to 14.2V and let it absorb for 10 minutes, then float at 13.5V.

The spec says the balancing charge is 14.0, if you set the float to 13.5 I'd be worried that the BMS would not be able to do top balancing.

It would be nice to have access to the BMS, but for the price - it works, and I won't know how well they will actually perform for 1000's of days!