All-in-one inverter for home network UPS replacement?

[monochromatic]

Hi, apologies if this has already been asked, but I couldn't find an exact match.

I have a small network rack with a modem, router, switch, cameras, and alarm system. It draws 82W and a max of 100W. I really don't want to buy a standard UPS unless absolutely necessary to due to the short runtime and SLA batteries.

The MPP Solar PIP – 1012LV-MS claims to have a automatic transfer switch time of <10ms, which is the same as many of the dedicated UPS units (like an APC or CyberPower). Looks like lots of other all-in-one units also have a similar transfer time, like the Growatt/EG4/Victron/etc.

Is it feasible to get an all-in-one unit hooked up to an LFP battery and get the same performance? Am I ignorant about some other feature of a cheaper dedicated UPS that could damage the electronics somehow? I still see many people in other forums recommend a dedicated UPS instead of an all-in-one + battery system, so I must be missing something important about what a UPS provides.

Thank you!

 

[Pendrak]

Hi, apologies if this has already been asked, but I couldn't find an exact match.

I have a small network rack with a modem, router, switch, cameras, and alarm system. It draws 82W and a max of 100W. I really don't want to buy a standard UPS unless absolutely necessary to due to the short runtime and SLA batteries.

The MPP Solar PIP – 1012LV-MS claims to have a automatic transfer switch time of <10ms, which is the same as many of the dedicated UPS units (like an APC or CyberPower). Looks like lots of other all-in-one units also have a similar transfer time, like the Growatt/EG4/Victron/etc.

Is it feasible to get an all-in-one unit hooked up to an LFP battery and get the same performance? Am I ignorant about some other feature of a cheaper dedicated UPS that could damage the electronics somehow? I still see many people in other forums recommend a dedicated UPS instead of an all-in-one + battery system, so I must be missing something important about what a UPS provides.

Thank you!

I use a growatt 5k es US from signature solar and it work as UPS for my house (16S diy LF280K battery).

There is a model of 3k and less, get a 110v model and use it as UPS.

 

[monochromatic]

Thanks for the reply! Looks like that Growatt model has the same transfer switch time as <10ms. Are there any issues with computers or other electronics when it switches over?

 

[Pendrak]

Thanks for the reply! Looks like that Growatt model has the same transfer switch time as <10ms. Are there any issues with computers or other electronics when it switches over?

I have 4 computers, 2 routers, 3 switch in my house plus any electronics like echo, tv, dishwasher, etc, all work perfect. There is lot of brands, MPPT, EG4, Victrom, Growatt, etc, choose the best option for your.

 

[monochromatic]

Awesome. It makes me wonder why more people aren't going this route for 10x the runtime instead of standard offline/standby UPS options. There must be some additional protection or capability that offline/standby UPS systems offer, or is it that simple?

 

[Rumbaar]

As long as the device you're replacing the standalone UPS units for is rated as a UPS, then all should be fine. I have 5 UPS 1500va UPS units in my setup, but have the backup batteries feeding those UPS units and then that offers the dedicated hardware of the UPS and the power backup of batteries far longer than the UPS.

I get between 40-80m on my UPS, but with my batteries powering them I can get upwards of 5 hours of backup power.

 

[Bud Martin]

Awesome. It makes me wonder why more people aren't going this route for 10x the runtime instead of standard offline/standby UPS options. There must be some additional protection or capability that offline/standby UPS systems offer, or is it that simple?

Off the shelf is all self contain, with AVR & surge protection but with short run time unless you get one with expansible batteries, using AIO you have the SCC (which you may not use if you do not have solar)/Utility charger/Inverter and then you will external battery with cables, etc.. hard to move around and does not look nice for for non tech person.
If you have no need for SCC then get the inverter with utility charger and the built-in transfer switch so you do not have to pay for the SCC that you will not use.
What is the required run time?
Do you look into Solar generator with UPS function?
100W load for 24 hour = 2.4kWh, so the battery has to be larger than 2.4kWh to last one day.
SCC = Solar Charge controller
BTW, I do have PIP-1012LV-MS and LV-MK.

 

[monochromatic]

As long as the device you're replacing the standalone UPS units for is rated as a UPS, then all should be fine. I have 5 UPS 1500va UPS units in my setup, but have the backup batteries feeding those UPS units and then that offers the dedicated hardware of the UPS and the power backup of batteries far longer than the UPS.

Good point, I've been reading more about this and it seems like lots of people just use an existing/old UPS and hook up extra batteries. So I guess in this scenario, the UPS is acting like a battery charger/inverter/transfer switch.

 

[monochromatic]

Off the shelf is all self contain, with AVR & surge protection but with short run time unless you get one with expansible batteries, using AIO you have the SCC (which you may not use if you do not have solar)/Utility charger/Inverter and then you will external battery with cables, etc.. hard to move around and does not look nice for for non tech person.

Thanks for the reply. It does seem like it's largely a space/appearance issue and the fact that it's all self contained, vs. having a big battery/cables etc.

If you have no need for SCC then get the inverter with utility charger and the built-in transfer switch so you do not have to pay for the SCC that you will not use.
What is the required run time?

I don't plan to have solar initially, but I think I want the PIP-1012LV-MS because it's plenty for my small 80-100W load and all self-contained (except the battery). I would like the whole thing to last for the longest power outage I've ever had here, which is 8 hours. Most power outages are 2 hours or less. And ideally the ability to top it off using one of my Ecoflow units if it's an extended power outage.

BTW, I do have PIP-1012LV-MS and LV-MK.

What do you think of the 1012LV-MS? It seems to fit the bill for my scenario perfectly.

I've noticed a lot of UPS' claim to have a "power cleaner" functionality but don't know what that means. Is that done at all in these AIO units?

 

[meetyg]

One thing that I've read about extending batteries for existing UPSs is that it may lead to premature failure l, because most of the smaller UPSs weren't designed for long running times.
For example, my 500VA UPS will only run for around 15 minutes with the standard SLA battery and around 100w load.

I did recently replace a dead SLA for a larger capacity AGM, but again they weren't designed for this. The smaller units don't have any active cooling (as AIO do) so it's a risk.
I would also think that it's nice to have a solar option with the AIO, so that you can prolong the running time even more.
When running in "bypass/line" mode (grid power exists), they do not "clean" the grid sinewave like some (most?) UPSs do. If you have pretty stable / clean grid power, it matters less.

Also take into consideration that AIOs have a standby consumption of a few 10s of watts (50-60) which had to come from somewhere (either grid or battery), just for running internal electronics. I don't know about UPSs consumption, but I presume it might be less.

 

[monochromatic]

I did recently replace a dead SLA for a larger capacity AGM, but again they weren't designed for this. The smaller units don't have any active cooling (as AIO do) so it's a risk.

That's a good point!

When running in "bypass/line" mode (grid power exists), they do not "clean" the grid sinewave like some (most?) UPSs do. If you have pretty stable / clean grid power, it matters less.

I wonder how important this actually is, or whether I can add this cleaning ability if it's necessary.

Also take into consideration that AIOs have a standby consumption of a few 10s of watts (50-60) which had to come from somewhere (either grid or battery), just for running internal electronics.

Yeah that's a good point, I think my standard cheap UPS' draw a few watts on standby, but probably a lot less than an AIO.

 

[patrickcasavant]

Off the shelf is all self contain, with AVR & surge protection but with short run time unless you get one with expansible batteries, using AIO you have the SCC (which you may not use if you do not have solar)/Utility charger/Inverter and then you will external battery with cables, etc.. hard to move around and does not look nice for for non tech person.
If you have no need for SCC then get the inverter with utility charger and the built-in transfer switch so you do not have to pay for the SCC that you will not use.
What is the required run time?
Do you look into Solar generator with UPS function?
100W load for 24 hour = 2.4kWh, so the battery has to be larger than 2.4kWh to last one day.
SCC = Solar Charge controller
BTW, I do have PIP-1012LV-MS and LV-MK.

Hi Bud, can i ask you the meaning or difference between LV-MS and LV-MK?
Thank you!
Pat

 

[Bud Martin]

Hi Bud, can i ask you the meaning or difference between LV-MS and LV-MK?
Thank you!
Pat

Here is the info on the MK:

Overstock – PIP1012LV-MK – 12V 1kW 120V Inverter , 1kW Solar Charger 80A , Parallelable and split phase up to 9 units, Zero Transfer Time – Watts247 Wholesale

watts247.com

 

[patrickcasavant]

Here is the info on the MK:

Overstock – PIP1012LV-MK – 12V 1kW 120V Inverter , 1kW Solar Charger 80A , Parallelable and split phase up to 9 units, Zero Transfer Time – Watts247 Wholesale

watts247.com

I dont express myself correctly, what does mean le letter MK and MS? Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Bud Martin]

I have no idea what they stand for or how MPP comes up with those designation, they look to be used for separating series of the products, I.E. the MK series:

MPP Solar Inc » PIP-MK Series

www.mppsolar.com