Am I on the right path to a new solar set up?

[Osmethne]

My goal here was to help point out the need for reasonable laws and regs designed to protect fire fighters. Hundreds of volts of electricity and water being sprayed at high volume and pressure, along with a need for speed and turnout gear that limits mobility, make for a bad combination. Not that you'd ever know it, of course, but it ain't exactly the best of situations. Most decent people with common sense "get it" without too much trouble once they think about it. And most don't throw stones at the people that'll be pulling their sorry rear out of a building or a wreck, should the need arise.

Now and again, though, a person runs across someone who just doesn't care about any of that, and instead wants to whine about being forced to spend a few extra dollars to protect first responders. There's no point in arguing with you any more. Goodness knows the firefighters in your town don't deserve you, but I bet they'd be there to help, despite your lack of support. Says a lot about both types of people, as I see it. Happy trolling.

I'm not trying to propagate a flame war but now I am curious. Is there real world data for this actually being a problem?

 

[Madcodger]

I'm not trying to propagate a flame war but now I am curious. Is there real world data for this actually being a problem?

Rapid Shutdown? What do you want? A body count? Exactly how many firefighters do you want to have electrocuted before you have enough "real world data"?

Solar panels produce electricity, often at hundreds of volts. Fires happen at any time of day or night. So, it's pretty darn certain you're going to have fires on sunny days. Without rapid shutdown, you're asking people to climb around on a roof with those energized solar panels, with hoses filled with high pressure water. Have you ever even touched a fire hose? The couplings leak. Often. A lot. Add to that the water that is probably being sprayed by other firefighters, perhaps from the other side of the building, who may not even realize you're on that part of the roof. Water is absolutely everywhere at a fire scene. It takes just a tiny little nick in a wire, or a lose connection, and suddenly you have the makings of a very tragic data point for your "real world data".

Rapid shutdown was developed by people who have to deal with the dangers of a fire scene, not an "overzealous committee", in response to a very real danger. I do not know the stats on how many firefighters have been injured or killed by electricity produced by energized solar panels, and neither I nor anyone anyone else needs to know that to create common sense rules designed to protect people. I hope it's zero, and stays there. Thankfully, a group of people, presumably with actual experience and certainly with common sense, got together and said, "Ummm... Electricity... Water... People working close to the electrical source with that water, in very challenging circumstances... Oh, wait...".

If you don't want to pay for rapid shutdown, then either keep your project small (not needed on sheds and such) or go with a ground mount. Or, don't go crying if the fire dept says, "Nope - We're not putting someone up there - No rapid shutdown." That's what the rule should be, in my humble opinion.

We're way off topic from the OP's original question, but I didn't think it wise to let a ridiculous comment about the lack of need for rapid shutdown go unaddressed. I suggest those who want to oppose it start another thread where it can be discussed.

 

[Johneb]

To the OP, you might want to look at how you can decrease your energy usage first. I started by putting a Micro air easy start on our non inverter heat pump. That decreased our usage by about a third right there. Next we changed our hot water heater to a tankless. This might be changed back when we go solar with a timer to turn off the heaters at night when we go solar. Not enough juice in the inverter to run a 24kw tankless heater. We are all electric so next is changing to induction cooking to decrease energy again. Make sure your home is tight. Good seals around doors, no leaks around windows etc... we are at almost half of the energy we used to use. It will help with the sizing of your system. Hope this helps.

 

[Osmethne]

Rapid Shutdown? What do you want? A body count? Exactly how many firefighters do you want to have electrocuted before you have enough "real world data"?

Solar panels produce electricity, often at hundreds of volts. Fires happen at any time of day or night. So, it's pretty darn certain you're going to have fires on sunny days. Without rapid shutdown, you're asking people to climb around on a roof with those energized solar panels, with hoses filled with high pressure water. Have you ever even touched a fire hose? The couplings leak. Often. A lot. Add to that the water that is probably being sprayed by other firefighters, perhaps from the other side of the building, who may not even realize you're on that part of the roof. Water is absolutely everywhere at a fire scene. It takes just a tiny little nick in a wire, or a lose connection, and suddenly you have the makings of a very tragic data point for your "real world data".

Rapid shutdown was developed by people who have to deal with the dangers of a fire scene, not an "overzealous committee", in response to a very real danger. I do not know the stats on how many firefighters have been injured or killed by electricity produced by energized solar panels, and neither I nor anyone anyone else needs to know that to create common sense rules designed to protect people. I hope it's zero, and stays there. Thankfully, a group of people, presumably with actual experience and certainly with common sense, got together and said, "Ummm... Electricity... Water... People working close to the electrical source with that water, in very challenging circumstances... Oh, wait...".

If you don't want to pay for rapid shutdown, then either keep your project small (not needed on sheds and such) or go with a ground mount. Or, don't go crying if the fire dept says, "Nope - We're not putting someone up there - No rapid shutdown." That's what the rule should be, in my humble opinion.

We're way off topic from the OP's original question, but I didn't think it wise to let a ridiculous comment about the lack of need for rapid shutdown go unaddressed. I suggest those who want to oppose it start another thread where it can be discussed.

A simple no would have sufficed.

 

[SonicXtasy]

Sorry for not getting back to this thread for a while, I have been busy. I did opt for the moment to exclude the batteries (will add next year) and got a quote from signature solar for the 18KPV and 15-16K of PV (I could go more but I never want to push the inverter to its max and risk reducing its life span). They quoted 34 455 watt panels with 34 Tigo rapid shut down modules which brings me to a few questions.

1) Do I need a module on each panel??? Can't I just have 1 for each string? The last thing I want is 34 electronic boxes baking in the Florida sun and rain.

2) Do the rapid shutdowns turn off the panels when the grid goes down or only when an emergency switch is engaged? I want some power when the grid goes down which is partially why I opted for the 18KPV because it has its own grid disconnect.

3) Do I need the Tigo Cloud connect? I do not want any of the system online. Call me paranoid but if there is a planned grid attack it is not out of the realm of possibility that they could push a firmware update that could crash the PV system just before crashing our grid.

4) Down the road how would I add more PV if I wanted? I don't want to add more directly to the 18KPV because it is already to its max and I would not be able to add enough extra PV to justify a 2nd 18KPV.

Here is the revised parts list they quoted me.

Here is a quote for the grid-tied EG4 18kPV system. Let me know if there are any changes or adjustments
that you would like made to the quote.
Let me know if you have any questions.

Unit Price Qty Extended

EG4 18KPV Hybrid Inverter | All-In-One Solar Inverter |
18000W PV Input | 12000W Output | 48V 120/240V Split
Phase | EG4-18KPV-12LV
1602002

5,599.00 x 1 5,599.00

Solarever 455W Split-Cell Mono PERC Solar Panel ( Silver )
1545006

254.97
-13.07
241.90

x 3 764.91 -39.21 725.70

Solarever 14.11kW Pallet - 455W Split-Cell Mono PERC
Solar Panel ( Silver ) | Full Pallet ( 31 ) - 14.11kW Total
1545006-31

7,499.00 x 1 7,499.00

50ft 10 AWG Copper PV Wire | Black and Red
1534011

60.80 x 2 121.60

100ft 10 AWG Copper PV Wire | Black and Red
1534025

104.50 x 2 209.00

Stäubli MC4 Male and Female Connector
1577005

3.04 x 6 18.24

Wire Ratchet and Crimp Tool | MC4TM-Style
1577004

20.89 x 1 20.89

Stäubli Open End Spanner Set
1577003

9.49 x 1 9.49

End Clamp for Mini Rail | 35mm Silver 1.50 x 16 24.00

1557003

Mid Clamp for Mini Rail | Fits All Silver
1557010

1.50 x 60 90.00

6in Asphalt Mini Rail With Flashing Roof Mount for Panel |
Silver
1557012

10.50 x 76 798.00

PV 2 Wire Management Clip | 50 Pack
1503008

11.88 x 2 23.76

Tigo TS4-A-S Module Level Rapid Shutdown | 15A,
700W,1500V UL/1000V IEC | MC4, 1.2M Cable
1594012

37.32 x 34 1,268.88

Tigo Cloud Connect Advanced (CCA) Outdoor Kit | Tigo
TAP, Din Rail PS, Outdoor Enclosure
1594002

310.47 x 1 310.47

Subtotal $ 16,757.23
Discount -39.21
Shipping Select at Checkout
Total $ 16,718.03