As A Beginner Do I Buy Or DIY?

[CircuitsActivated]

Hello everyone. I am new to solar. I have made my introduction post and now I have questions. I live with my elderly parents on a small farm. I live on a fixed income due to being legally blind (not totally black blind). My begining goal for solar power is for essential backup or emergency power. Charge iPhones, iPad, run a CPAP machine, power or charge my handheld ham radio, maybe run an electric blanket if it is cold or a small fan if it is hot. Power the cable modem and wifi router, run an LED light. Things to keep you alive, warm, and the ability to communicate. These items would not be powered all at once, just giving examples. I have up to $1000 to invest, total cost out the door with everything needed. I have been looking in to premade solar generators such as Jackery, Bluetti, etc. I have seen some Hobotech videos where he likes them and some Will Prowse videos where he calls then flawed or even junk. I am looking for an easy solution but am willing to go the DIY route on a budget. I am open to ideas and just starting to see the vast resources of this website. Thank you for your advice and guidance.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

Start with an energy audit. Decide how long you want to be able to run/charge each of those items, and add up the power requirements. This will be the basis for determining your battery and solar requirements. Use the search box in the upper right hand corner and enter the phrase “energy audit”. With that said, I urge the DIY route just because that’s my preference and it has wonderful economical advantages; however, it’s not for everyone.

 

[Nate Finney]

Start with an energy audit. Decide how long you want to be able to run/charge each of those items, and add up the power requirements. This will be the basis for determining your battery and solar requirements. Use the search box in the upper right hand corner and enter the phrase “energy audit”. With that said, I urge the DIY route just because that’s my preference and it has wonderful economical advantages; however, it’s not for everyone.

Absolutely, use one of those AC energy metes on amazon (here's one) and test all of the appliances you want to run, and find out how many watts you would need at a time.

 

[CircuitsActivated]

Absolutely, use one of those AC energy metes on amazon (here's one) and test all of the appliances you want to run, and find out how many watts you would need at a time.

Thank you for the reply. I will work on figuring out my piwer needs, thank you for the advice. Now, what are the main advantages and disadvantages with the store bought power station vs. the DIY method? From the little I know right now, it appears that when it comes to portable models...Jackery seems to be the yardstick by which all others are judged. It seems that it costs more money up front to build a DIY solution that is similar to the $1000 Bluetti unit. That makes the EB150 seem like a better ready made solution. I am here to learn, thanks for the help.

 

[Q-Dog]

First, prioritize your critical loads and figure out how much power you need to keep those going for one night, and then for one day. The rest is just adding up numbers and fitting that into the $$$s you have. You would probably want to put the CPAP at the top of your list. I used a Kill-a-watt meter to measure how much power is needed to run different things around my house. I have a gas generator for longer outages.

I started with a gas generator. Then I built a battery backup for my house with the goal of keeping refrigerator and communications going for 24 hours without intervention. I just bought a few solar panels this week. If I only wanted the cheapest solution I would have stopped with the portable gasoline generator.

The least expensive backup solution is still a gasoline generator. Even the quiet (and more expensive) Honda and Yamaha inverter generators are cheaper than the equivalent solar setup with battery storage. Yes, dealing with gasoline is a hassle. But they they can run at night. Get the quiet inverter generator. They are still noisy, but totally worth it. There are a lot of cheaper inverter generators on the market now. I like my Honda a lot, but I would consider the Ryobi from Home depot or the Craftsman from Lowes if I had to buy today. Not sure how they handle repairs. That would be a big issue for me. Stay away from the no-name stuff.

If I had a small budget I would buy a small inverter generator. Then I would buy the biggest all in one battery backup I could afford and use household power or the generator to charge it up. In emergency you can charge during the day, run off the battery at night. And you can always run the generator at night if the battery fails. The battery can also be charged with a vehicle in an emergency. I like redundancy. Add solar charging when you get a little more money.

I had to rely on my generator for about a week just a few short months ago and it was great for that. A cold refrigerator and a working TV and phone/internet make sitting in the dark a lot easier. But, the constant droning is tiring, especially if you have windows open all night to cool off. If you need power to keep your medical situation stable, it is not a big deal. And, not having to throw out everything in your refrigerator/freezers could pay for the generator after only a couple of uses. My fridge is good for 3 or 4 hours without power. The freezer is good for about 10 hours.

 

[Nate Finney]

First, prioritize your critical loads and figure out how much power you need to keep those going for one night, and then for one day. The rest is just adding up numbers and fitting that into the $$$s you have. You would probably want to put the CPAP at the top of your list. I used a Kill-a-watt meter to measure how much power is needed to run different things around my house. I have a gas generator for longer outages.

I started with a gas generator. Then I built a battery backup for my house with the goal of keeping refrigerator and communications going for 24 hours without intervention. I just bought a few solar panels this week. If I only wanted the cheapest solution I would have stopped with the portable gasoline generator.

The least expensive backup solution is still a gasoline generator. Even the quiet (and more expensive) Honda and Yamaha inverter generators are cheaper than the equivalent solar setup with battery storage. Yes, dealing with gasoline is a hassle. But they they can run at night. Get the quiet inverter generator. They are still noisy, but totally worth it. There are a lot of cheaper inverter generators on the market now. I like my Honda a lot, but I would consider the Ryobi from Home depot or the Craftsman from Lowes if I had to buy today. Not sure how they handle repairs. That would be a big issue for me. Stay away from the no-name stuff.

If I had a small budget I would buy a small inverter generator. Then I would buy the biggest all in one battery backup I could afford and use household power or the generator to charge it up. In emergency you can charge during the day, run off the battery at night. And you can always run the generator at night if the battery fails. The battery can also be charged with a vehicle in an emergency. I like redundancy. Add solar charging when you get a little more money.

I had to rely on my generator for about a week just a few short months ago and it was great for that. A cold refrigerator and a working TV and phone/internet make sitting in the dark a lot easier. But, the constant droning is tiring, especially if you have windows open all night to cool off. If you need power to keep your medical situation stable, it is not a big deal. And, not having to throw out everything in your refrigerator/freezers could pay for the generator after only a couple of uses. My fridge is good for 3 or 4 hours without power. The freezer is good for about 10 hours.

I head about some people converting chest freezers to 'off-grid' fridges, as chest freezers by design work very efficiently, and using it as a fridge would make it use even less power.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

Thank you for the reply. I will work on figuring out my piwer needs, thank you for the advice. Now, what are the main advantages and disadvantages with the store bought power station vs. the DIY method? From the little I know right now, it appears that when it comes to portable models...Jackery seems to be the yardstick by which all others are judged. It seems that it costs more money up front to build a DIY solution that is similar to the $1000 Bluetti unit. That makes the EB150 seem like a better ready made solution. I am here to learn, thanks for the help.

You can use the AC meters as pointed out, but you can also look up the specification for your devices. Figure out what it would take to run the device for an hour, decide how many hours, and the spreadsheet will guide you.

 

[Q-Dog]

I head about some people converting chest freezers to 'off-grid' fridges, as chest freezers by design work very efficiently, and using it as a fridge would make it use even less power.

If I were 100% off grid and every watt was precious I might consider that. But, I like a mostly normal refrigerator with a door and glass shelves and vegetable bins. I compared energy star ratings and the most efficient "normal' refrigerator I found has a freezer on the bottom and a single door for the fridge on top. And no ice and water through the door. Having the fridge on top means I don't have to bend over to see what is in the vegetable bins. Mine uses about 1.2 kWh of energy per day from my battery, which has already been replaced by the 400 watts of solar that I plugged in today.

 

[CircuitsActivated]

First, prioritize your critical loads and figure out how much power you need to keep those going for one night, and then for one day. The rest is just adding up numbers and fitting that into the $$$s you have. You would probably want to put the CPAP at the top of your list. I used a Kill-a-watt meter to measure how much power is needed to run different things around my house. I have a gas generator for longer outages.

I started with a gas generator. Then I built a battery backup for my house with the goal of keeping refrigerator and communications going for 24 hours without intervention. I just bought a few solar panels this week. If I only wanted the cheapest solution I would have stopped with the portable gasoline generator.

The least expensive backup solution is still a gasoline generator. Even the quiet (and more expensive) Honda and Yamaha inverter generators are cheaper than the equivalent solar setup with battery storage. Yes, dealing with gasoline is a hassle. But they they can run at night. Get the quiet inverter generator. They are still noisy, but totally worth it. There are a lot of cheaper inverter generators on the market now. I like my Honda a lot, but I would consider the Ryobi from Home depot or the Craftsman from Lowes if I had to buy today. Not sure how they handle repairs. That would be a big issue for me. Stay away from the no-name stuff.

If I had a small budget I would buy a small inverter generator. Then I would buy the biggest all in one battery backup I could afford and use household power or the generator to charge it up. In emergency you can charge during the day, run off the battery at night. And you can always run the generator at night if the battery fails. The battery can also be charged with a vehicle in an emergency. I like redundancy. Add solar charging when you get a little more money.

I had to rely on my generator for about a week just a few short months ago and it was great for that. A cold refrigerator and a working TV and phone/internet make sitting in the dark a lot easier. But, the constant droning is tiring, especially if you have windows open all night to cool off. If you need power to keep your medical situation stable, it is not a big deal. And, not having to throw out everything in your refrigerator/freezers could pay for the generator after only a couple of uses. My fridge is good for 3 or 4 hours without power. The freezer is good for about 10 hours.

What you mention here is why I am on the fence. Yes solar is quiet but compared to a $1000 Honda generator....the up front cost is far greater. This would be an emergency type system and solar will run a fridge or a coffee pot, but you need a large system to do it for several days without electricity. I am learning and I am torn. The generator maintaining is easy. Use fuel stablizer, do not store the Honda with gas in it, spark plug is $2, the oil change costs $2 of a $4 quart of oil. Yet solar panels will last 25 years, but so will the Honda if you take care of it. I wonder....Jackery for the USB, smartphone, light duty stuff. Honda for the coffee pot, hot plate, space heater....you know the 1000-1500 watt stuff. There is a lot to consider.

 

[Q-Dog]

Start small. Take care of the necessities. Add on later as your needs grow or as you discover the limitations of what you have.

 

[CircuitsActivated]

Start small. Take care of the necessities. Add on later as your needs grow or as you discover the limitations of what you have.

Thank you.

 

[Bob B]

It also kinda depends on exactly how challenged your vision is. These batteries have a tremendous amount of stored energy and inadvertently causing a short can be devastating.

Many years ago, I worked in an electronics shop and one technician .... who was a VERY smart guy .... had to have special glasses and have his nose right up next to something to see it.
We were working with mostly low voltage electronics circuits, but he always used twice as many parts as actually needed to fix something because he smoked so many components.
With these batteries, one mistake can be a real problem.

Just make sure you are able to work safe.

 

[blutow]

A key question on diy vs off the shelf - are you looking for a hobby and does this stuff interest you? If you are just looking for capabilities at the lowest cost, the diy path would require some tools/equipment that might wipe out any savings. There is also no warranty on your diy work and you run the risk messing stuff up and spending more than planned (pretty much describes most hobbies). I went the diy route because I like tinkering with stuff and learning new things. Screwing stuff up and figuring out solutions is part of the fun. The potential cost savings are there, especially if the plan is to continue expanding, but they come with risk.

the other factor is skill set. Do an honest assessment. There are tons of good resources, but you need to do the work to learn it and it requires a high attention to detail. Messing with raw battery cells is more dangerous than most people realize, not to be taken lightly.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

A key question on diy vs off the shelf - are you looking for a hobby and does this stuff interest you? If you are just looking for capabilities at the lowest cost, the diy path would require some tools/equipment that might wipe out any savings.

I disagree here. The cost of tools for me was $200ish. Possibly close to $300. Even with that cost, the savings on the back end is still tremendously well worth it.

 

[Hedges]

Batteries are expensive. I recommend keeping them to a minimum.
You need enough to run the CPAP machine at night, and a little bit more. If you can get by without humidifier power will be much less.
Figure out how much power you need for the CPAP, and you need a battery for at least 12 hours of that load.

Inverters are necessary for 120V load. Of what you listed, only the electric blanket would need one, and only a couple hundred watts.
The rest should be able to run directly off 12V, or 5V.

Some cheap used PV panels and an MPPT charge controller would keep some battery, even a used car battery, charged up during the day. That could power your devices and a 12V fan.

A 100 Ah 12V battery, either AGM or lithium, will cost a significant percentage of your budget. The key is deciding how much storage you need. Possibly FLA golf cart batteries will be the most economical. There may be some deals available on batteries more than a year old; we've heard they can't be sold as new.

Here is an example from one of our favorite sources. The shipping costs for panels may not be worthwhile, but you will get an idea of what you should try to pay locally.

Possible system (assuming it doesn't have to be portable):
40A charge controller $140 https://store.santansolar.com/product/epever-mppt-solar-charge-controller-tracer-4210an/
155 Ah AGM battery $240 https://store.santansolar.com/product/leoch-155ah-12v-agm-battery/
4x 250W PV panel $50 each $200 https://store.santansolar.com/product/santan-solar-t-series-250w/
$580 total, not including "Y" cables, mounting hardware, cigarette lighter style outlets.

Although 2 PV panels is about maximum for the charge controller, wiring two strings 2s2p oriented at morning and afternoon sun will produce fairly uniform power all day. It would produce about 500W x 8 hours to power loads and recharge battery.
The 155 Ah battery should only be drained to 50% DoD, about 77 Ah usable, so it will last a few years.

 

[blutow]

I disagree here. The cost of tools for me was $200ish. Possibly close to $300. Even with that cost, the savings on the back end is still tremendously well worth it.

Yep, just a math problem there. That’s why I said “might”. 200-300 worth of tools is a big part of a 1k budget. Can you buy everything else for 700-800, depends on your needs.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

Yep, just a math problem there. That’s why I said “might”. 200-300 worth of tools is a big part of a 1k budget. Can you buy everything else for 700-800, depends on your needs.

This is true. I didn’t consider purchasing just a couple cells, either: so, it could work out either way.

 

[CircuitsActivated]

Thank you everyone for the help, working with me, and being patient while I study my options. I did forget to mention that I have some tools. I do our own basic automotive repairs on the farm. I have sockets, wrenches, Amazon multimeter (should have bought a Klein), Irwin automatic wire stripers, used Mac Tool plier set, Craftsman screwdrivers, Weller soldering gun and iron, etc....you get the idea. I have been interested in solar or “alternative” energy as an idea since I was young....but only as passing thoughts. I was never independent enough (living on my own) to live the off grid lifestyle. As a farmer I still live with parents and help them take care of the farm and animals....this is their house. I would love whole house solar. This planet has given us resources we can use once we learn to harness them. If I had more income I do believe I would go the DIY route and enjoy the hobby. Due to lack of eyesite, I do nit feel safe soldering together a battery pack full of 18650 cells, yet the idea of making my own battery pack sounds great. This is why I keep leaning towards an off the shelf solution. I have seen YouTube videos where people talk about a device like the Bluetti EB150 being called a “battle born in a box”. If that is true, then it makes the EB150 a nice package for $1k without any of the work. Again, I am new and learning. I want to get the best value that I can and have the solution last as long as it can. For $1k you can buy a Honda EU2000i inverter generator. If you maintain it correctly it will last a couple decades. This is what I keep thinking about. DIY solar which will be bulkier, less refined, and no warranty. A device like the Bluetti EB150 with a limited all in one solution yet convenient. Then you have the noisier Honda solution. We live on a farm in the sticks so I have no neighbors to bother or rules saying what I can and can not do. Thank you all for helping me work through this problem.

 

[Hedges]

If your parents have grid power, is net metering allowed? Or the rules and electric rates favorable or unfavorable for net metering?
Grid-tied net metering is just a UL1741 compliant inverter and a series string of PV panels, very simple to assemble, reliable, and cost-effective.
If electricity from the grid costs $0.15 or $0.20/kWh, grid-tie PV can break even in 2 to 4 years and deliver free power for another decade.

Maybe you could design the system and purchase all except the PV panels on your $1000 budget. Have your parents buy some 3kW to 6kW of used PV panels, and you install them.

If the farm's daytime consumption exceeds what the PV plant generates, you may be able to install the system bootleg, and from meter readings all the utility could see is a characteristic dip in consumption. (If visible from the street they might call you out on it.) Permitted installations require inverters of recent models because they are required to implement functions to help maintain grid stability. Older installations like mine predate those rules, so I can swap my original inverters for less old ones that have functionality I want but are still cheap. For instance, I've paid $400 to $500 for new in the box SMA Sunny Boy 5000US and 6000US.

This won't give battery backup. But with a $3000 investment (including 6kW of PV panels at $0.33/watt), it might save your parents $1500 per year on electric bills. Start by studying their bills for the past year.