Battleborn four BB10012 battery bank failure

[guzmane76]

Hello all. Posting this in hopes to see if anyone else had the same failure or experience. Back in 2020 I purchased four BB10012 batteries, connected them in parallel using 4/0 cable, decent lugs, torqued terminal bolts to 10 ft/lbs in accordance with battleborn's manual, and installed them securely in my RV. System consisted of the four battleborn battery bank, BMV712 shunt, Victron Multiplus 12/300/12 inverter, two victron smart charge controllers 100/30 250/100, (all these items purchased from battleborn) and 10 200 watt solar panels on the roof. From then to now we had maybe five or six RV trips, two of those trips were longer trips (over 3000 miles). RV is stored in a shaded spot, unplugged from shore power, and the charged batteries switch is turned off to disconnect batteries from system to prevent parasitic load discharge. This last trip had to be cut short because I started getting the low voltage and DC current ripple warnings via the victron app and the system will shut down. Called Battleborne tech support and they adviced to disconnect every cable that was attached to or touched the victron inverter, wait one hour, then reconnect everything and the problem should be fixed, which I did per their instructions but didn't fix the problem. It was weird because I would check with my multimeter and I would sometimes read voltage, and sometimes would not read anything. Long story short, once I got home from the road trip I disassembled the battery bank and turns out ALL the positive terminals in each battery were lose inside the actual battery case. At first this was only detected in two of the four batteries but turns out all four batteries had lose positive battery terminals inside the actual battery case. So I sent the fisrt two (discovered) batteries in for warranty check, then told them about the other two batteries to what they responded to wait until the first two batteries were diagnosed before sending them im. It took them almost two weeks to inform me the finding was EXCESSIVE CELL INBALANCE DUE TO LOOSE POSITIVE TERMINALS CAUSED BY HEAT BUILD UP ON TERMINALS and that the batteries were beyond repair. When discovered the first two battery voltages were 13.35 (batt1) and 13.31 (batt4), and the other two batteries were 13.44 (batt2) and 13.34 (batt3). How is this possible? Sounts to me like a design flaw. What's the BMS for then? Everything was torqued to specs and checked periodically. The highest item we ran on this system was the roof AC and not all the time. Is this a "get you a lawyer and fight" situation? Even worse, ME thinking they were going to grant my warranty I purchased five other SAME MODEL batteries from them to upgrade my system and now this. Very upsetting. Anyone else had the same failure or experience? Videos I recorded are too large for attaching on here and link is provided below. I also attached some pics of the type of cables and lugs used. Thank you

Serial numbers for the four failed batteries were 56666, 56414, 56538, 56541

Battleborn Batteries Issue - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[400bird]

So I sent the fisrt two (discovered) batteries in for warranty check, then told them about the other two batteries to what they responded to wait until the first two batteries were diagnosed before sending them im. It took them almost two weeks to inform me the finding was EXCESSIVE CELL INBALANCE DUE TO LOOSE POSITIVE TERMINALS CAUSED BY HEAT BUILD UP ON TERMINALS

That sounds suspicious. The positive terminal connects to just one cell.

and that the batteries were beyond repair.

Ouch, that's a surprise

When discovered the first two battery voltages were 13.35 (batt1) and 13.31 (batt4), and the other two batteries were 13.44 (batt2) and 13.34 (batt3). How is this possible?

Good battery voltage doesn't mean the cell voltages are good.

What's the BMS for then?

Many BMSs only balance the cells when charging and nearly full. Your batteries spent most of the past 2 years sitting and getting out of balance. The balance current is very small and takes a long time or a short time if cycled daily and given plenty of cycles to balance.

Is this a "get you a lawyer and fight" situation?

Read the warranty documentation first.

Even worse, ME thinking they were going to grant my warranty I purchased five other SAME MODEL batteries from them to upgrade my system and now this.

That's a rough decision.

I think you could change your habits with the new batteries to help improve their lifespan.

 

[guzmane76]

That sounds suspicious. The positive terminal connects to just one cell.

Ouch, that's a surprise


Good battery voltage doesn't mean the cell voltages are good.


Many BMSs only balance the cells when charging and nearly full. Your batteries spent most of the past 2 years sitting and getting out of balance. The balance current is very small and takes a long time or a short time if cycled daily and given plenty of cycles to balance.

Read the warranty documentation first.

That's a rough decision.

I think you could change your habits with the new batteries to help improve their lifespan.

Thanks for the reply. Change habits how?

 

[400bird]

Use it more? Cycling the battery will allow the BMS to balance.

You heard it here, "The internets said I need to vacation more!" Tell the boss, you need more double you current PTO.

Alternatively, can you connect it to the house and use the RV solar/battery to offset some energy use on the house?

 

[guzmane76]

Use it more? Cycling the battery will allow the BMS to balance.

You heard it here, "The internets said I need to vacation more!" Tell the boss, you need more double you current PTO.

Alternatively, can you connect it to the house and use the RV solar/battery to offset some energy use on the house?

Ohh ok, thank you for the pointers. Was just doing what the CEO of BB says here in reference to storing them:

 

[guzmane76]

That sounds suspicious. The positive terminal connects to just one cell.

Correct. The only way that terminal could be loose inside the actual battery case is by failure of, or incorrect torque of its securing bolt. Take a look at Will's tear down video.

Ouch, that's a surprise


Good battery voltage doesn't mean the cell voltages are good.


Many BMSs only balance the cells when charging and nearly full. Your batteries spent most of the past 2 years sitting and getting out of balance. The balance current is very small and takes a long time or a short time if cycled daily and given plenty of cycles to balance.

Read the warranty documentation first.

That's a rough decision.

I think you could change your habits with the new batteries to help improve their lifespan.

 

[Alkaline]

tik tok.... lets see how fast BB PR departments gets these vids taken down...

 

[400bird]

At least 3 years?

 

[Sam Cho TX]

I'm not going to go into details buy my BB did something similar and I was denied warranty... That is all I have to say I messaged the OP.

I was able to get the battery to work by replacing there BMS with a JBD 100A 4s from overkill solar. It doesn't have a top on it any more.

 

[guzmane76]

At least 3 years?

View attachment 163134

What do you mean?

 

[guzmane76]

tik tok.... lets see how fast BB PR departments gets these vids taken down...

Wow. Is that the way things work here? Sad

 

[Alkaline]

Yeah it is : https://diysolarforum.com/threads/battleborn-caught-on-fire.58709/

 

[guzmane76]

Yeah it is : https://diysolarforum.com/threads/battleborn-caught-on-fire.58709/

I guess only people with youtube channels get the promised A++ customer service, support, and warranty service from battleborn. Amazing

 

[Zapper77]

I typically cycle my RV batteries in the winter every 2 weeks. Keep them in a climate controlled room.

Last winter I was busy (ok lazy) so I left them around 50% SOC for 4 months.

Prior to my first trip of this season I cycled my BB batteries 5 or 6 times and made sure to fully charge them. Giving them ample time to top balance.

I'm glad to say I still get 206 ah...according to my cheap/garbage shunt. New I saw 211 ah.

 

[guzmane76]

I typically cycle my RV batteries in the winter every 2 weeks. Keep them in a climate controlled room.

Last winter I was busy (ok lazy) so I left them around 50% SOC for 4 months.

Prior to my first trip of this season I cycled my BB batteries 5 or 6 times and made sure to fully charge them. Giving them ample time to top balance.

I'm glad to say I still get 206 ah...according to my cheap/garbage shunt. New I saw 211 ah.

So happy for you. Congrats on getting 211ah

 

[mikefitz]

The battery terminal becoming loose inside the battery has been reported on this forum,

Battle Born Victorious

Hello fellow solar gatherers, I am totally off-grid on an island. I have two BB powered systems. In one location are eight BB10012 in series/parallel 48vdc and the other six of the same for 24vdc. The eight in the 48vdc system have been operating flawlessly. I'm very pleased. However, I...

diysolarforum.com

If you examine the design of the battery terminal, shown in Wills video , its a small section of copper/brass? flat bar bolted to the negative plate of the parallel set of cylindrical cells. Any force applied to the terminal parallel to the ends of the battery case could lose the internal bolt. Add in dissimilar metals, expansion rates , and fixing 'slackening', and you have a possible cause.

The Experts: Picking up the slack

Why is slackening becoming an increasing problem?

www.nord-lock.com

The degree of effect of shock and vibration in an RV application is under rated and battery secure fixing is often lacking. I can imagine with thick cables on the battery terminals connecting batteries together, any slight movement could seriously stress the battery terminal internal fixing.

Mike

 

[400bird]

What do you mean?

I was replying to this:

tik tok.... lets see how fast BB PR departments gets these vids taken down...

Who i assume was replying to you posting two of Will's YouTube videos.

Both of Will's videos you linked are over 3 years old.

I guess only people with youtube channels get the promised A++ customer service, support, and warranty service from battleborn. Amazing

That sucks, but wouldn't surprise me at all. They left a fastener loose in you batteries and are refusing to warranty them, you don't have enough YouTube subscribers to expose battleborn to any risk.

 

[Tomthumb62]

The only way that terminal could be loose inside the actual battery case is by failure of, or incorrect torque of its securing bolt.

This isn’t the first time on this forum that people have trusted their torque wrench and it failed them. Tighten it good, by feel, but don’t go overboard. Attempt to tighten each lug to more or less the same tightness. Fewer problems tend to come from tightening by feel than trusting a torque wrench. Even calibrated torque wrenches can mislead you. 10 foot pounds on a 150 ft-lbs wrench is difficult to get accurate. On a 35 ft-lbs wrench it’s much more likely to be true (if calibrated).

 

[Zapper77]

This isn’t the first time on this forum that people have trusted their torque wrench and it failed them. Tighten it good, by feel, but don’t go overboard. Attempt to tighten each lug to more or less the same tightness. Fewer problems tend to come from tightening by feel than trusting a torque wrench. Even calibrated torque wrenches can mislead you. 10 foot pounds on a 150 ft-lbs wrench is difficult to get accurate. On a 35 ft-lbs wrench it’s much more likely to be true (if calibrated).

The bolts in question are located inside of the sealed case...not user accessible.

 

[Tomthumb62]

The bolts in question are located inside of the sealed case...not user accessible.View attachment 163165

Ah thanks. That’s what I get for not reading the whole thread. Thanks for being nice about it ?