Bought Litime 230AH 12v battery for full time vandwelling, good or bad?

[TMariano]

Hello all, new user here. Apologies for the lengthy post or if any of this has already been asked here, I just want to be as thorough as possible for my particular situation. Any info/recommendations are welcome and appreciated. Please be kind as I am not an electrician and just a humble human doing my best to survive.

I'm putting together my first power system (12V) for full time van dwelling. Was going to wait a while longer but I impulse bought a 230AH LifePO4 battery (Litime) because it was on a good sale and what I planned on getting anyways. I will be getting everything else over time as I can afford it. I have only a basic education with electricity and did my best to keep things realistic and do thorough enough research to ensure I have safe/adequate power to live off of without breaking the bank, but was hoping for some advice before I go any further in case i'm wrong so as to avoid costly mistakes. Here's a list of the major components I planned on using:

230AH 12V Litime Plus battery
Renogy Rover BT 40A Solar charger
500-600 watts worth of 12V solar panels, maybe 24V if I can use that with my system somehow.
Weize 2000W Pure Sine Wave inverter (may get Renogy if it means more efficient power)
Renogy 12V 40A battery charger (would be using all day/night 3 days a week)
250A Positive/negative busbars (not sure what brand yet)
Blue Sea 5026 12V Fuse block (100A I believe?)

Per my calculations, I would be regularly going through 30-40 amps a day at most. Going into detail, I am planning to power up to two cooking appliances a few times (give or take) a week, for no more than 20-30 minutes at a time with the heaviest load being 1500 watts (600W skillet and 900W air fryer/multi-cooker), and still have enought power stored to be able to charge my laptop/phone. Maybe even an hour or two of ps4 time, though I could easily live without it in my van. I will also have a 12v fridge running all the time, website states 45W on ECO and 60W on MAX, I plan to only use ECO. Other than that I plan for a few puck lights, a computer fan (for toilet vent), temperature monitor, and a two way baby monitor/camera for my dog so I can watch over him while I work.

My main concern is that I won't have enough power to last through the work week. I will have access to power for 3 days a week (my weekends) that I plan to recharge using a converter/charger, but will be parked on the street for 4 days a week (about 50 feet from where I work) with no access to power. Will most likely also invest in few small power banks just for phone/laptop charging, just to be safe..

Also, for the sake of thoroughness, here is a crude sketch I made based off a working 12v system that, aside from being wired to a 100AH battery and no converter involved, is exactly identical to what I planned for above. I am hoping I can still use the same amp ratings on fuses and such with my 230AH battery along with adding a 40A converter, if anything about this is wrong or looks sketchy please let me know.

Thanks in advance for anyone who is willing to help me out with advice, recommendations or corrections!

 

[12VoltInstalls]

500-600 watts worth of 12V solar panels, maybe 24V if I can use that with my system somehow.

With a decent mppt it will be fine regardless of panel voltage. I charge 12V with up to 100Vish panel voltage.

main concern is that I won't have enough power to last through the work week

On paper you sorta do.
Answers:
- if you are chewing it up, buy another battery
- flat panels of 600W should do maybe 1500Wh a day by themselves

 

[ShaneC]

Don't fall into the Renogy = quality trap. They just provide an easy "plug and play" setup because everything is 12V but you can get better quality for cheaper with a bit more research. For example you can get a couple of any brand 300w panels and plug them into a 100v capable SCC so long as their combined VoC is under 90V (allow for cold temps increasing VoC). Epever make good budget SCCs, their 40A is reasonably priced and would do 480w+ of charge to the battery. Your 600w flat mounted panels are unlikely to give more than that.

As for inverters I have a Giandel 24v 2kw which has worked well for me. They do 12v models too and are among the lowest in terms of idle energy usage.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

Don't know your timeframes for everything, but I'd invest in the design process now, before buying more components. The 12v230ah battery can be standalone for now (a single battery), or part of a 12v system design (one or more batteries in parallel for a battery bank) or a 24v design (2 batts in series, and then more in parallel), all of which goes to getting the battery-bank amp-hours you need to run (between charging). Sounds like you'll go 12v for the entire system design for now, but not too late to change to 24v with the addition of one more battery.

Do the design work now to calculate all your loads out, after reducing (some might be propane), or choosing not to reduce. Then plug the info into the many websites that will let you "what-if" the inverters, chargers, panels, etc. You'll be able to see the entire system that way, based on your loads and the "sun hours" in your target areas. Two sites I've used in the past:

1. Go here, and enter in each appliance's values (watts, hours/day you want to run it, etc.):
unboundsolar.com/solar-information/offgrid-calculator

2. Go here, using numbers from above, and fiddle with various entries/components, and you'll see in real-time what your system component (inverter, mppt, panel) sizing is:
www.altestore.com/store/calculators/off_grid_calculator/

First rule of design is to cut out loads you don't need or can convert. You could go all electric, and try to find the most efficient electric appliances you can, or you can convert some of those to propane (a very good/handy fuel for RV/Van scenarios). A propane-based cooktop, appliances that work on propane flame stoves, etc.

You could also, as this is a van, count on some charging from the van's alternator system. Many of the van living websites will go over these details for you, to incorporate into your own design.

While this is putting more eggs into one basket, you could consider an All-in-One like a 12v or 24v mpp AIO model. Hook your battery up to it, plug some panels into it, and it does all the rest for you. Plug in some shore power, when near it (house, car, whatever), and it can recharge from that as well.

Compare everything you want to do (as you build your diagram) to the designs in the "diy solar products and system schematics" section of this forum, at the top menu.

Hope this helps ...

 

[12VoltInstalls]

could also, as this is a van, count on some charging from the van's alternator system

not too late to change to 24v with the addition of one more battery

For needs mentioned I see no need nor benefit of going 24V. Disadvantages in this circumstance to go 24V imho…

putting more eggs into one basket, you could consider an All-in-One like a 12v or 24v mpp AIO model. Hook your battery up to it, plug some panels into it, and it does all the rest for you. Plug in some shore power, when near it (house, car, whatever), and it can recharge from that as well.

Either the 1012LV—MS or 1012LV-MK is a great unit. I have one for the benefits. It currently spends its time as an SCC only but is there in case of emergency. It lives on the wall with several other SCCs and a 2000W inverter. When powered on it is ~28W idle consumption.
Great suggestion. I love mine.

 

[jimf909]

I agree that a DC-DC charger (charging from the alternator) is an important part of a van system because it augments solar and may mean that shore charging is not needed or significantly reduced.

Can you provide an example of your calcs leading to 30-40 amps per day? For example, the fridge may use 45-60 watts but it cycles on and off. What were your assumptions there? Regardless, the fridge probably makes up the bulk of your consumption but what do the rest of your loads look like?

 

[ShaneC]

Either the 1012LV—MS or 1012LV-MK is a great unit. I have one for the benefits. It currently spends its time as an SCC only but is there in case of emergency. It lives on the wall with several other SCCs and a 2000W inverter. When powered on it is ~28W idle consumption.
Great suggestion. I love mine.

28w idle is pretty high. That's 50A+ a day if it needs to stay on to power anything.

 

[Tomthumb62]

I would pass on the Renogy Rover charge controller. I have one and while it works, it’s got problems and I hate it. Go Epever for cheap or if budget allows, Victron.

If you decide on the Rover, be sure to read the long thread about how to program it. You’ll also need the Bluetooth adapter to do so for lifepo4.

I’d also skip Weize for the inverter. With your low power needs, the Victron Phoenix 12/1200 (1000W) will power everything you need easily AND have a low idle draw on eco mode. The high idle draw will kill your battery with a cheap inverter like Renogy or Weize. You can save money buying “open box” with full warranty from invertersRus.com.

 

[Tomthumb62]

I’d also skip Weize for the inverter. With your low power needs, the Victron Phoenix 12/1200 (1000W) will power everything you need easily AND have a low idle draw on eco mode. The high idle draw will kill your battery with a cheap inverter like Renogy or Weize. You can save money buying “open box” with full warranty from invertersRus.com.

I’ll add that we originally had a 2000W Renogy inverter. Idle draw was sucking a whopping 500+ watt hours per day. We sold it and got a 1000W Victron and now our idle draw is about 50 watt hours per day. For a small mobile system like ours, this makes a HUGE difference! We realized that 2000W is overkill for our needs as we mostly just run a fridge (800w to startup and 40-80w running) and powering a couple of small devices under 75w each. However the Victron 1000w is no wimp, it can easily start a full size Dyson vacuum and run for a short period (2400w to startup, 1800w running).

 

[12VoltInstalls]

28w idle is pretty high. That's 50A+ a day if it needs to stay on to power anything.

???

672Wh and that’s only ~2.09A not 50A.

On what scale?
Setting myopia aside, that’s a relatively small consumption that is easily replaced with one small commodity panel or less than one mid-sized panel. It’s a small initial cost to cover the overhead of living for the stated ~4 days without grid which enables living for free for those days (and assuming the other three, as well). The overall monthly expense savings will be 10 fold so that is better than any investment I can think of aside from ill advised, dubious betting in Las Vegas… when the savings in just a single month pay for a single 100W panel in three days of that first month even at a conservative level I cannot imagine how 672Wh is high at the stated goals of OP and keeping in perspective the circumstances of ‘van life’ or other cost-saving alternative living options one might choose.

example of your calcs leading to 30-40 amps per day? For example, the fridge may use 45-60 watts but it cycles on and off. What were your assumptions there? Regardless, the fridge probably makes up the bulk of your consumption but what do the rest of your loads look like

I have a 7.5CF two door top freezer residential-style 120V fridge. It’s ‘maybe’ 700Wh/day or 50 Amp hours per day.
So we’re at roughly 1500Wh for which ~300W of solar panels would barely cover in practice.
So the mentioned 600W of solar puts OP in good stead, and the mentions 200Ah LiFePo stores roughly 2500Wh. 400Ah of batteries and 600W of panels would seem to accomplish the goal quite well.

Go Epever for cheap or if budget allows, Victron

Victron will be likely best case. Having lived with the 1012LV-MK, several of the Epevers, and some bottom-shelf powrMR in this situation if it were me I’d be ok with Epever but believe it or not I’d probably pick two powrMR (or three) and have redundant sources since OP will be dependent upon 100% uptime and having backups makes sense to me. I live offgrid myself, so I’m talking from experience.
No harm in Victron if the budget is there but I’m pretty satisfied with the ultra-basic functionality of the powrMR and at the price point there isn’t anything else I’d recommend.

skip Weize for the inverter. With your low power needs, the Victron Phoenix 12/1200 (1000W) will power everything you need easily AND have a low idle draw on eco mode. The high idle draw will kill your battery with a cheap inverter like Renogy or Weize

My 2000W psw QZRELB/Reliable is about 11W; iirc the 1200W psw Giandel was ~18W, the MPPSolar AIO is 18-28W (why it varies? Dunno) but usually 26-28W.
Been using the QZRELB since March??? and no issues. The several Giandel psw inverters have been great.
Caveat: I don’t get caught up in worrying about ultimate efficiency- my focus is mostly on usability and dependability with a mix of overall cost. My system is very dependable and I’ve been offgrid with it for several years and no equipment-related downtime. I can’t complain.
I always had it in my mind to ‘upgrade’ along the way with Victron or perhaps sigineer but at this point I’m enjoying my fun and cheap experiment. Of course there’s other expenses but in practice I’ve NOT spent over $30k in rent which enabled buying a piece of land and allowed my making choices when I pay bills instead of desperately trying to get ahead of paying stuff on time. I pay my insurance premium in full saving $100/yr, and can buy other necessities when it’s to my advantage instead of spending on demand or what have you.

So I applaud OP for making the sacrifice/sacrifices to better themselves and wish them maximum success and freedom.
For me, it came down to I need a shower once or twice a day, I need to make my own food, I want a coffeemaker every morning, I need to sleep, and I need to be warm. I covered those things with a 24’ RV, solar, and for 2years $40/month renting a remote lot. I was clean and presentable making it to work every day, didn’t spend takeout food money, and didn’t look/act any different than any other people.

I say all this ancillary stuff because

I'm putting together my first power system (12V) for full time van dwelling

the OP is starting an adventure that could benefit them greatly in the years to come because he/she is going to surpass the status quo and accumulate quite a little nest egg without the typical burdens of the average. Once you get going with living on the cheap - if one is smart and leaves alcohol, drugs, new cars, and gambling alone- accumulating cash is surprisingly easy to pile up and sustain.

 

[lexio]

I would pass on the Renogy Rover charge controller. I have one and while it works, it’s got problems and I hate it. Go Epever for cheap or if budget allows, Victron.

get your self a victron if you drive. the victron will reset the mppt table every 10 minutes, this is a handy trik if you drive in the in and out of the shade. the epever is only resetting every 60 minutes and stays some times the whole day at or near the battery voltage.

had a epever 4210
now a victron user
see this threat https://diysolarforum.com/threads/e...ing-out-of-mppt-mode.52189/page-3#post-790936
i have a 310 watt panel laying flat on my rv, the max what i have seen so far is 2 KW a day

 

[Tomthumb62]

Caveat: I don’t get caught up in worrying about ultimate efficiency- my focus is mostly on usability and dependability with a mix of overall cost.

And that’s a good reminder on how to gain from this forum. Understand where someone is coming from and what their priorities are. For us, with a meager 400W of flat mounted panels on a mobile trailer and only 200Ah 12v battery, efficiency is extremely important. The small price in the Victron efficiencies (we saved a chunk of $ buying “open box” with full warranty) to us is worth every penny. We just went 54 hours without any charging before the battery was empty because of where we chose to camp. With an inefficient inverter, that time would’ve been more like 18-30 hours.

I’m like you, I love saving money. I love efficiencies. Sometimes that efficiency is manifested in paying a lower price for the features and sometimes it manifests in paying more money for features that are more efficient.

 

[Tomthumb62]

get your self a victron if you drive. the victron will reset the mppt table every 10 minutes, this is a handy trik if you drive in the in and out of the shade. the epever is only resetting every 60 minutes and stays some times the whole day at or near the battery voltage.

had a epever 4210
now a victron user

Now I don’t recommend this charge controller, but I recently bought the Bluetooth dongle for my Renogy Rover 30A charge controller. With the dongle, you can access many more settings IF you use their older app, Renogy BT. There’s a setting that you can set the time length of the bulk charge. I currently have it set to 10 minutes.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

I'm putting together my first power system (12V) for full time van dwelling

with a meager 400W of flat mounted panels on a mobile trailer and only 200Ah 12v battery, efficiency is extremely important

Ok. That’s your take. Not arguing.

My take is 28W idle consumption IS efficient. Maybe not the most efficient but not bad

I ran almost two years with my original 200W windyNation pwm setup and Giandel inverter. And two 8-10 year old marine batteries. So I understand maximizing one’s circumstances fully. With some AIO’s commonly at 60W, 70W, and more I consider 28W fine. Victron is fine, too. But whether Victron or something less costly- if you either have an excellent working system and need more panels you still need more panels

If (when?!) I buy Victron low idle consumption will not be any of the reasons why.
I don’t get caught up being stressed out about ultimate efficiency, I just make stuff work.

For a new van dweller I’m suspecting that for his/hers funds availability they’ll be much better served with a low cost up front, the learning curve benefits, and wise informed choices about future upgrades. Or as in my case: not upgrading.
Where is @TMariano anyways?

 

[Tomthumb62]

if you either have an excellent working system and need more panels you still need more panels

lol yes if I could fit more panels I would. I have another 200w in folding panels but it’s rare I have the opportunity to set them up. So saving 20-25% of my 200Ah every day with a better inverter is worth every penny.

I agree that your idea of efficient and best use of available resources may be different than my own. And that’s cool ?

When we started out, we went cheap and bought Renogy stuff. Wish I could have every penny of that wasted money back. What a headache it’s been with them. I’d put every penny off that towards better stuff. I hate spending money I don’t need to and I usually avoid the more expensive brands, but Victron is actually not that much more expensive for many of their products. Some of their stuff is ridiculously expensive, ever looked at their lifepo4 batteries? And those don’t even come with a BMS, which is an extra $800. But I think their inverters, at least the one I got, is well worth the extra cost. And their 30A AC charger is actually cheaper (open box with full warranty) than some other decent quality chargers out there. And the Victron charger can be highly programmed with their app through Bluetooth.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

lol yes if I could fit more panels I would. I have another 200w in folding panels but it’s rare I have the opportunity to set them up. So saving 20-25% of my 200Ah every day with a better inverter is worth every penny.

Mount low-profile strut on the side of camper. Other than lower latitudes much of North America will do about as well as flat laid panels much of the year. One 300W panel will be…another 300W

When we started out, we went cheap and bought Renogy stuff

i don’t think renogy is cheap.
These days you are buying the brand-name seller as much as the equipment for 75% of the products out there. Which makes them more “expensive” than cheaper known hood products imho.

But I think their inverters, at least the one I got, is well worth the extra cost.

Valid opinion. Yes. Victron has a great reputation.
My first system that enabled my “freedom journey” was only a few hundred bucks for inverter and everything- carefully selected cheaper products. One week without water and light and part of one paycheck and I was electrified. Within two months I was ahead of my bills. Three months later I started saving money. ~5 years later I have 2500W of solar running and own a piece of land no mortgage. Still running cheap equipment (well the solar panels are REC, with a few Rich and a number of my original windyNation panels, so those aren’t budget basement items; my cabling and fuses are all topnotch, too)

I don’t think hardly anybody starts vanlife or RV living that’s not “retirement” and has 750k in the bank. Hence my advice.

Is @TMariano a drive-by? Without interaction there’s really nothing more to be added…

 

[Tomthumb62]

Mount low-profile strut on the side of camper. Other than lower latitudes much of North America will do about as well as flat laid panels much of the year. One 300W panel will be…another 300W

Very good idea. Except this camper is very one of a kind and sentimental. It’s beautifully hand built and attaching any sort of strut on the side would ruin the craftsmanship. Which is one reason we went with flexible panels, they’re invisible from the ground, so it still looks early 20th Century instead of modern. People say that flexible don’t last nor produce as well as rigid, but going on four years later, they all still work and I have seen as high as 92% output and that was just a week ago. I’m sure how and where I use them contributes to their longevity. (Near the Canadian border and stored under cover for 6 months of the year.)

i don’t think renogy is cheap.

If you mean by their MSRP, I agree. But they have regular sales and many things are rarely selling at full price, which makes them cheaper than a lot of stuff. But after my experience with them, there are better options out there.

 

[ShaneC]

???

672Wh and that’s only ~2.09A not 50A

Sorry I meant 50Ah at 12V. Missed the "h" and assumed 12V was implied from the calculation.

 

[TMariano]

Is @TMariano a drive-by? Without interaction there’s really nothing more to be added…

My apologies, I work long and physically demanding hours Mon-Thur (sometimes Fridays) and just started my weekend, considering the feedback I got I will most definitely be making heavy use of this forum when time permits. I sincerely appreciate you and everyone that has responded so far. A little overwhelmed with all the answers and I can see I have some homework to do!

I have a 7.5CF two door top freezer residential-style 120V fridge. It’s ‘maybe’ 700Wh/day or 50 Amp hours per day.
So we’re at roughly 1500Wh for which ~300W of solar panels would barely cover in practice.
So the mentioned 600W of solar puts OP in good stead, and the mentions 200Ah LiFePo stores roughly 2500Wh. 400Ah of batteries and 600W of panels would seem to accomplish the goal quite well.

This may be better in a different post, but next summer I plan on running a 120V 410W window ac solely off my system for 12 hours a day (just under 41AH I believe?) on the days I work to keep my dog cool while i'm working. My plan was to heavily insulate floor, ceiling and walls to mitigate conduction heat (will be parked on black road) and have the ac blowing either front to back or vice versa, whichever gets better results. My pup will have a bed off the ground with a non-powered cooling blanket on it as well. Also plan on getting a maxx air fan deluxe over my kitchen in front of van (will be on 8 in exhaust mode at most, just under 2AH for 12 hrs) and putting a small window on opposite end of the roof for fresh air and a view over my bed.

I am not opposed to switching the majority of system out as i'll eventually be selling this van for either a better van or land, figured working power will get me more for it and if I get a new van/land it'd be nice to have some hardy power (or at least the majority of the system) from the get go. With this in mind what kind of changes would you recommend I make when the time comes?

EDIT: I'm open to your suggestions but feel free to ignore this section, I'm sure I don't need to tell you this but my calculations for required AH's on anything 120V have been done incorrectly, was unaware the amp ratings for 120V electronics needed to actually be converted to 12V. Whoops... ?

Victron will be likely best case. Having lived with the 1012LV-MK, several of the Epevers, and some bottom-shelf powrMR in this situation if it were me I’d be ok with Epever but believe it or not I’d probably pick two powrMR (or three) and have redundant sources

Do you think just one of these powMR's would be sufficient to start with?

EDIT: I won't be using any electric cookware anymore, nor any need to have the inverter on 24/7 as I found a battery powered door cam I can use as a monitor that doesn't require wifi. The only 120V electronics i'm planning to use now is a 650W coffee maker and PS4/monitor (280 and 80ish watts respectively, about 28 amps per hour total at 12V) for a few hours each day at most. Not as worried about the PS4 but the electric coffee maker is vital to my sanity.

5 years later I have 2500W of solar running and own a piece of land no mortgage.

This is my long-term plan as well, gonna try to just save for a couple years and see what I can get into, hoping for somewhere in WA. Might upgrade to a sprinter or something tall/long before I buy land though, I am 5'10" and am unable to stand in my 89' E150. Plan on having a stool on wheels that i'll use to roll around and do my all bidding (cooking, cleaning, etc). If this plan works well i'll just "roll" with this van until I have enough for land.

 

[Tomthumb62]

but next summer I plan on running a 120V 410W window ac solely off my system for 12 hours a day (just under 41AH I believe?

Not 41Ah at 12v. More like 13x that amount.

410w/120v/0.85=48A DC x 12h= 578Ah

You would need 2.5x the battery you currently have, just to run the A/C unit and additional battery to power your fridge.

And you’d need enough charging power, solar or otherwise to wake up the next day with your batteries with enough juice to last long enough for your charging to power the fridge, A/C and charge your battery up. That’s MASSIVE system for a van. The batteries alone will take up a ton of space and without doing real math, I’m guessing you’d need over 1000W of panels, but 1500W or more would be even better. Can you fit 1000W of panels on the roof of your van?

Or can you plug into shore power and run a 100 charger overnight to start at 100% the next day?