diy solar

diy solar

Buy Batteries by 2025 if you live in the Mid-Atlantic area

hwy17 said:
This is my curiosity. What is the first equipment of concern for damage due to low frequency. Turbine, generator, transforming, transmitting, distribution, end user. Who is the first device of concern that needs protection from 58hz.
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58 Hz is a symptom.
Of AN overloaded generator connected to other generators.
Feeding a pool of power.
Before the symptom gets that low, mitigation is well under way.
 
hwy17 said:
This is my curiosity. What is the first equipment of concern for damage due to low frequency. Turbine, generator, transforming, transmitting, distribution, end user. Who is the first device of concern that needs protection from 58hz.
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The grid is the biggest piece of equipment, nothing else matters when the shit hits the fan..... nothing. 58hz wayyyyy too late, serious national problems at 59.5hz.
Actually voltage is nowhere near as critical as the frequency but obviously does depend on it, but they will fight for the frequency before the voltage or the load every day every time.
If it is not 100% on frequency it is basically a short circuit and seriously bad things will happen. The amount of power on the grid is immense, only rivaled by the Sun.
 
Ok, I will just continue on my own.

Yes, as I suspected, it appears the ultimate reason for the low frequency generator trip, aka the aforementioned but rarely specified "equipment damage", is to protect the turbine itself. At least on a steam generator, but same concepts probably apply to gas turbines too.

low frequency effects on steam turbine - Constructed items general discussion - Eng-Tips

what are the low frequency effects on steam turbine. Are there steam turbines designed with very low frequency protection.
www.eng-tips.com www.eng-tips.com
 
hwy17 said:
Tripping offline doesn't reduce the likelihood of collapse, in increases it. If you were the operator you'd far rather having the generator keep riding to give you more minutes to shed the load that for some reason you haven't already. Tripping is only going to hasten the frequency decline.
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I had the same question but after rereading the earlier quote I think the context of @DIYrich was that load shedding would take place before tripping the generators off line. Or a section of the grid would go offline when a generator could not keep up and the rest of the grid frequency would rebound which would then prevent further brownouts. If I understood the earlier discussion, that is what happened in the Texas case.
 
Ampster said:
I had the same question but after rereading the earlier quote I think the context of @DIYrich was that load shedding would take place before tripping the generators off line. Or a section of the grid would go offline when a generator could not keep up and the rest of the grid frequency would rebound which would then prevent further brownouts. If I understood the earlier discussion, that is what happened in the Texas case.
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I certainly understand load shedding, and that frequency is tightly controlled.

What was bothering me was the common misexplanation that generators would trip offline "to save the grid" or something. As though it is helpful to anyone else for a generator to trip.

It makes sense and clears it up for me that it is the turbine, not even the turbine's generator, but the working turbine that physically is only designed to be stable near 1800rpm and 58.4 is already down to 1750.
 
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Yep the grid will go down, also the entirety of the rocky mountains is going to fall over and crush us all and it'll hit so hard we'll fly into the atlantic ocean!

there are other boards for this, don't use the battery discussion board
 
TomC4306 said:
58 Hz is a symptom.
Of AN overloaded generator connected to other generators.
Feeding a pool of power.
Before the symptom gets that low, mitigation is well under way.
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This.

By the time the frequency is dropping, the equipment is too heavily overloaded and you're in the process of breaking your generation, possibly severely.
 
gotbeans said:
Yep the grid will go down, also the entirety of the rocky mountains is going to fall over and crush us all and it'll hit so hard we'll fly into the atlantic ocean!

there are other boards for this, don't use the battery discussion board
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That could be quite an electrifying experience when all that salt water hits our battery packs or the battery packs hit the salt water. ?
 
hwy17 said:
Voltage collapse isn't a simple supply demand overload, those result in frequency drop and the inertia in the system (unless it's made of inverters lol) gives them time to load shed.

Voltage collapse happens fast and is hard to react to. 2003 had voltage collapse components.

The weak grid will need syncons again like the old days thanks to all the inverters.
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I learn something new every day!
www.ge.com

Synchronous Condensers: How Proven Technology Is Set to Enable the Energy Transition | GE Steam Power

Synchronous condensers represent a fully reliable and proven solution to address the stability requirements of the grid and offer some advantages over other grid stabilization solutions.
www.ge.com www.ge.com
 
Rednecktek said:
We could just build some nice clean, affordable, SMR reactors to pick up the slack...

Oh wait ..
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Why build them to pick up the slack when they're good to run 90% capacity, we could be taking all the industrial effort towards wind and solar and build a clean, dispatchable, reliable, weather independent power source... But anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming.
 
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