Preparing to buy Bluetti AC200P and no one seems to talk at all about using non inverter (old school dirty power) gas generator's to recharge them. Is it OK or not ? The last thing I want to do is damage or destroy something this expensive right off the bat. Surely others have wondered about this or am I the only one? I'm certain there is a definite and clear answer to this question. I'm just looking for good advise. I wish Will would do a short video on this subject - - - It's a big DEAL to me.
Clean vs dirty power to recharge a new expensive solar generator?
- Thread starter FABRMAN
- Start date
Conventional generator (non inverter)’s output is less stable and can change in voltage and frequency. But that usually happens when the load changes. If all you are charging is the AC200P, then it should be pretty steady. That being said, can you send a note to the MFG to ask?
Why not charge it using solar panels?
Why not charge it using solar panels?
Diysolar123
Solar Addict
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- Feb 28, 2021
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the problem is probably a challenge for the manufacturer in specifiying exactly how "dirty" the incoming power may be?
Even if they spec " variable DC input", any High frequency noise can really damage components.
It is much safer to just say what it "must" be to avoid the universe of problems that exist once you start to step away from that.
Now they do say in the manual it can be charged from a car alternator, which is not exactly a precision voltage source...its worse than your generator probably hehe
Keep in mind that each generator has its own unique output so there will never be a clear/definitive answer for all generators.
"pure sine wave" is marketing speak and not exactly an ISO standard ;-)
some generators have large startup and shutdown spikes, some have a lot of high frequency noise (square waves), some can produce a DC output which may very well have the same noise components.
power line noise is a real problem in the ham radio community, inverter type name brand generators are often the best option to avoid power noise. honda generators are quite popular for good 120VAC outputs...however, their same generator puts out a terrible 12VDC; the picture below is a scope of the DC output from the EU2000i hehe
Even if they spec " variable DC input", any High frequency noise can really damage components.
It is much safer to just say what it "must" be to avoid the universe of problems that exist once you start to step away from that.
Now they do say in the manual it can be charged from a car alternator, which is not exactly a precision voltage source...its worse than your generator probably hehe
Keep in mind that each generator has its own unique output so there will never be a clear/definitive answer for all generators.
"pure sine wave" is marketing speak and not exactly an ISO standard ;-)
some generators have large startup and shutdown spikes, some have a lot of high frequency noise (square waves), some can produce a DC output which may very well have the same noise components.
power line noise is a real problem in the ham radio community, inverter type name brand generators are often the best option to avoid power noise. honda generators are quite popular for good 120VAC outputs...however, their same generator puts out a terrible 12VDC; the picture below is a scope of the DC output from the EU2000i hehe
Wow, I can’t see the magnitude of that ripple or wave on that DC output, but it almost looked like AC.
I hear you, MFG are shy on written response and tends to err on the side of caution and just answer no, but it won’t hurt to ask and perhaps you can make it more definitive for them by giving them your exact generator model. Though if they said it would work with an alternator, then I would say it would pretty much with any generator.
Something that output pure sine wave, well, should be pure and not filled with distortions, but I have never taken a scope to those.
What about charging sigh solar?
I hear you, MFG are shy on written response and tends to err on the side of caution and just answer no, but it won’t hurt to ask and perhaps you can make it more definitive for them by giving them your exact generator model. Though if they said it would work with an alternator, then I would say it would pretty much with any generator.
Something that output pure sine wave, well, should be pure and not filled with distortions, but I have never taken a scope to those.
What about charging sigh solar?
THANKS Very Much - The reason I want the Bluetti in the first place is to RUN our sensitive electronics / twin HP 8300 black towers & big screen occasionally which I will not run on our multiple portable gas gen's all of which are "dirty power" I rent & live in FLA and after "Erma" we had no grid power for two whole weeks straight with temps in the 90-100 range!!! Real bad. We sell stuff on Ebay & no computers for 2 weeks was a nightmare. Would a bank of SLA's in parallel with a pure sine inverter to charge the Bluetti, the bank being themselves kept up/recharged with a 6 or 10 or 20 amp small ac battery charger do the trick and keep the Bluetti safe. I have these things already, but can't afford the AC200P and a big enough solar array to get the job done in an out front combined lump sum purchase. Plan to add solar later as I can afford to do so but up front - - no way. Moneywise it's Battlepoint Procedures all hands on deck because it's Hurricane season NOW in Florida!!!!!
Ah, I see, you want backup power to keep the computers and business running during extended outage.
The AC200P is already a battery, pure sine inverter and solar charger all in one. You do not need to get more batteries and pure sine inverter to keep it charged, doing that would just be a duplicate. The AC200P can run your computers for a full day, maybe a little more. However, you'll need a way to recharge the battery in the AC200p. How much budget would you have for solar panels? The AC200P requires 35V of solar, so you'll need to find a compatible version or use 2 of the common 12V (actually close to 18V) panels in series. How does the AC200P charge using AC, if it comes with an AC adapter that 1st convert to DC, then it can take pretty dirty power as it's own charging adapter would condition it into DC already.
You can also consider the Jackery 1500. It has a smaller battery (1500Wh vs 2000Wh), but it has a more flexible input with 12-50V so you can pretty much use any panels. It can also be charged from AC, through their own AC-DC converter so it can take dirtier power and not damage it. I have that and use a pair of 120W panels (I used the eco worthy 120V folding panels, around $150 each) would keep working day after day for you.
The AC200P is already a battery, pure sine inverter and solar charger all in one. You do not need to get more batteries and pure sine inverter to keep it charged, doing that would just be a duplicate. The AC200P can run your computers for a full day, maybe a little more. However, you'll need a way to recharge the battery in the AC200p. How much budget would you have for solar panels? The AC200P requires 35V of solar, so you'll need to find a compatible version or use 2 of the common 12V (actually close to 18V) panels in series. How does the AC200P charge using AC, if it comes with an AC adapter that 1st convert to DC, then it can take pretty dirty power as it's own charging adapter would condition it into DC already.
You can also consider the Jackery 1500. It has a smaller battery (1500Wh vs 2000Wh), but it has a more flexible input with 12-50V so you can pretty much use any panels. It can also be charged from AC, through their own AC-DC converter so it can take dirtier power and not damage it. I have that and use a pair of 120W panels (I used the eco worthy 120V folding panels, around $150 each) would keep working day after day for you.
Yes, Computers, monitors, modem, UPS's & lights need to run about 16 hours a day 7 days a week if possible with no grid power. I have 6 large SLA's less than a year old and fully up, but they're not deep cycles so they would go down fast unless they themselves have some power going into them. I believe the AC200P has an optional 12 volt accessory cord that plugs into the 25? amp input receptacle with alligator clips for 12 volt auto batteries no pure sine inverter required. So, I could still hook up my 6 SLA's in parallel and trickle charge them from a 12 volt charger plugged into a small gas generator to keep them from dying to keep the Bluetti from dying? I'm simply trying to enlarge the effective battery capacity capability of the AC200P since you cannot connect it to a second AC200P if there was one. I must use what I currently have until I can afford to add solar panels. I suspect I would need to over panel with about 1000 to 1200 watt capability to maintain 700 watt sustained input. That's a thousand to twelve hundred dollars I won't have up front. Yes, this would be a band aid stop gap fix that seems like it might work long enough to get me by or at least keep us online for most of the day if we are lucky after a storm. It's the CLEAN power I have to have one way or another to get by.
Don't discount the SLA, that what everyone used before LiFeSO4 became popular. 6 large SLA batteries is quite a bit. What is their capacity? Are they starter batteries (no good) or deep cycle (can drain to 50%)?
What is the minimum power (watts) does your equipment need to run?
If your SLA are say 100Ah 12V, then they are 1kW each, and you have 6kW total with 3kW usable. If you wire up say a 1000W pure sign wave inverter, it can power all your equipment for a while. If you already have so much batteries, then I don't think you should buy a Jackery / Bluetti, you are double paying for batteries. Just get a small inverter generator, or panels and the appropriate charger.
In the long run, you are going to need panels. If it is a more or less a fixed installation, you can get 200w panels for about $1/watt.
Unfortunately they are starter batteries which is why you have to keep feeding them power or they will die quick - - the wrong kind. If I feed them constantly with power as described and can roughly match the output load with input power I don't see why I would not be able to maintain a given power level in them for a good while in an emergency. Just like a car with all accessories on at once driving down the road and at the same time being recharged by the alternator, what would the difference be?
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Inverter generator. Much cleaner power output. Since it’s only for recharging and not needed for managing big variable loads it doesn’t need to be a big unit. See if you can find a second hand one to save some $. Then later you can look at solar PV to feed your bluetti.
Excellent thought WM. I have another thought as well. As mentioned earlier by MH SLA deep cycles were all we had years ago. What about the idea of buying a new semi tractor 8D deep cycle - - they are huge - - they are monsters - - for around $300.00 . Reserve out the butt and very hard to kill in the first 3 years. Sure they have a limited/short lifespan but I don't care at that price and the AC200P offers a 12 volt adapter cable with alligator clips designed for SLA's. Yes they weigh 100 lbs or so but again I don't care as this is only to get me through this hurricane season and one more at best. Maybe that is my cheap and reliable silver bullet!!!
I may or may not have found a temporary solution to my problem but I genuinely appreciate everyone who has posted here. Lets continue this discussion at least for a while. I am so glad I joined this forum, all posts so far have been polite, sharp and I am grateful. This forum, thank god for Will creating it, is exactly what demonstrates what America is all about. People working together willingly for a common good for us all is the very spirit upon which this nation was born. Surely as I've maybe mentioned earlier there must be legions of potential new buyers with limited funds for new solar generators who either know out front or will find out quickly that they need more battery capacity because they can't afford a new EP500 or the Pro model or 2 of each. We are not the rich/elite class we are the survivor class. My mind is a sponge and I want to learn more not just to protect myself but to protect my wife who turns 80 this September. Thank you ALL and let's kick this pig a little harder. !!!
T2R Of course the chargers themselves do not care about the quality of the power they produce. Why - - because they don't have to eat it. Your point is absolutely correct and very intuitive. The AC200P is the "Eater". It has to swallow it and be OK with it without being damaged in the process. That Is one of my primary concerns as I hope to partially charge my potential new 8D Deep Cycle battery while output power from it leaves it. You have opened a great point of discussion. The 64,000 dollar question is what degree of dirty will the AC200P endure as input power without damage? Only Bluetti may know this but I want to know someway somehow. Thank you for your post, it raises a Killer question which I am sure many, many would like an answer to if they invest big bucks in a new AC200P - - who wouldn't ?
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Glad you are finding it helpful.
Helping people and sharing information, experience and expertise is a human trait the world over, not something unique to Americans. Forum is full of people from all over the world, myself included.
You still have to charge them with something. Presumably a charge controller.
I obviously am patriotic for my country, yet you are so, so correct. It is the free human spirit of people from all walks of life all over the planet that this forum serves and serves so well !
OMG !!!!! Just saw Bluetti's video of new product releases for early September. An AC200 Max with expandable plug and play battery packs and the dream system, the AC300 Monster Power Station also with giant expandable plug and play huge batteries. 3K inverter and 3K batteries - - - - - - the Destroyer's of lack of battery reserve are coming in six weeks in both systems. I am putting-gambling on no storms till these releases occur. I may rethink everything now. BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO - BLUETTI - - - OUTSTANDING ********** BIGGEST GAMECHANGERS EVER RELEASED
THESE Systems are truly what We The People All Over The WORLD have been waiting FOR. GOD BLESS BLUETTI for providing the little people, the non elite, A MOST FORMIDABLE WEAPON for Personal Independence against government GRIDS. Thanks Bluetti, just isn't ENOUGH ! ! !
OMG !!!!! Just saw Bluetti's video of new product releases for early September. An AC200 Max with expandable plug and play battery packs and the dream system, the AC300 Monster Power Station also with giant expandable plug and play huge batteries. 3K inverter and 3K batteries - - - - - - the Destroyer's of lack of battery reserve are coming in six weeks in both systems. I am putting-gambling on no storms till these releases occur. I may rethink everything now. BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO - BLUETTI - - - OUTSTANDING ********** BIGGEST GAMECHANGERS EVER RELEASED
THESE Systems are truly what We The People All Over The WORLD have been waiting FOR. GOD BLESS BLUETTI for providing the little people, the non elite, A MOST FORMIDABLE WEAPON for Personal Independence against government GRIDS. Thanks Bluetti, just isn't ENOUGH ! ! !
WM, I did not realize ( I didn't think - my fault ) as silly as it sounds this forum was worldwide. The property where we rent currently has just been sold to a new owner. We Are Scared To Death our rent will be raised notably - - - to the point we can not afford and we have nowhere to go that we believe we can afford. I genuinely hope that I did not offend you out of a lack of worldly miss perception. I do value your and others input very much. You and other posters to this site are the hope of humanity worldwide and I so much appreciate it - - REALLY.
You are smart and I rely on what your thoughts and opinions of the new Bluetti releases mean to our survivor community. Thank You
You are smart and I rely on what your thoughts and opinions of the new Bluetti releases mean to our survivor community. Thank You
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Good luck with your journey to energy and home security.
WM All us little people yearn for is a chance for a better and free life. Thank you for your response. I truly wish you and your close friends and family prosper in the days weeks months and years ahead. We are the real hope of the world we live in - - - we all die someday, all we have in this world is what we can contribute now to the betterment of humanity. That is our cross to bear before the world, Set a good example and hold your head high. WE and others like us are literally the hope of the ultimate survivors of the coming dark times. It's so so sad to think that we're a short distance from SHTF. We and others like us MUST find a way to survive what's coming. As they said in star wars the resistance/rebellion.
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