Defective Lion Energy UT1300

[Repro]

I mentioned that I had a possible defective Lion Energy UT1300 last year mixed in one of my postings. Some asked how the customer service is with return/replacement. Well here is what happened and what I am doing about it. Nothing bad to report.

I was told to keep an eye on the battery for a while longer, so I did. I have four UT1300's that I purchased in April, May and June of 2020. I removed them from the system and fully charged each one individually with my AIMS charger. I did a capacity test (East Tester ET5410) on two of the batteries so far, the third is testing now. The first battery I tested was the suspected battery. Fully charged at 13.34V after settling, I connected it to the electronic load tester and it stopped at 73.490 Ah. The second battery tested at 103.23 Ah and the third is testing as of this writing.

I contacted Lion Energy with my results, they asked me to conduct a second test to ensure consistency. The suspected battery is charging and should be full before I go to bed. I will connect it to the tester and see what the results are in the morning. Lion Energy is awaiting the results as well. Assuming the results will be the same, I will start the warranty process.

I will post everything here letting everyone know how this works and how Lion Energy responds warranty claims. I have a really good feeling that this will go well. Let's see.

 

[Repro]

Here is an update:

The third battery tested out at 101.7Ah. The first battery did fully charge before going to bed. I connected it to the load tester and the results this morning were the same at 73Ah. The fourth and last battery is testing now.

I will be contacting Lion Energy today and start the warranty process after the fourth battery has tested out. I will post an update once I have spoken with Lion Energy.

 

[RCinFLA]

13.34v rested, unloaded voltage for LFP battery is not fully charged.

It is 75-80% state of charge.

You need a rested unloaded voltage showing greater than 13.80v to ensure battery is fully charged.

You also need to be sure you have an accurate voltmeter to make LFP battery voltage measurements.

You should charge to 14.2v. Other common issue is user not holding at 14.2v long enough to allow cells to balance. If you neglect doing this for many months, it can take 10-15 hours to reach balance and may get some cell overvoltage shutdowns along the way from battery management system.

 

[Repro]

13.34v rested, unloaded voltage is not fully charged.

It is 75-80% state of charge.

You should charge to 14.2v. Other common issue is user not holding at 14.2v long enough to allow cells to balance. If you neglect doing this for many months, it can take 10-15 hours to reach balance and may get some cell overvoltage shutdowns along the way from battery management system.

The battery was fully charged with my AIMS charger which charges the batteries to 14.4V before going into float. I checked the voltage with my multimeter to ensure that each battery is fully charged. After disconneting the suspect battery, it settled to 13.34V. Sorry, I cannot make the battery stay at a higher voltage. The batteries do not sit for months unused, they are used daily to the top 30%-40% on average.

The other batteries all settled to 13.7x volts after removing from the charger and sitting for several hours. I only have one load tester, so the other batteries have to wait in line. Before I connect them to the load tester, I connect them to the charger to ensure that they are full charged, and they go into float mode immediately. So the batteries are fully charged before testing.

The batteries were connected in parallel with bus bars, then to power distribution bars with a 2200W inverter and a Victron SCC 150/45. The system has eight 100W panels and is slightly over paneled, but not exceeding the voltage. The Victron charging configuration was actually set up with Lion Energy's help.

These batteries have not been mishandled or abused. They have been kept in a climatized room with a steady 75 degrees and a constant 50% humidity.

 

[HRTKD]

The batteries were connected in parallel with bus bars, then to power distribution bars with a 2200W inverter and a Victron SCC 150/45. The system has eight 100W panels and is slightly over paneled, but not exceeding the voltage. The Victron charging configuration was actually set up with Lion Energy's help.

A friend of mine has the same set of four batteries that were bought at the same time last year and put into use after a full charge on each individual battery. It's working well. I did the battery wiring, which is different from the way you did it.

Can you post a picture of your battery bank, specifically the interconnects?

 

[Repro]

I have completed the testing on all four batteries, and tested the defective one twice. I removed and marked the batteries in the order which the batteries were connected in parallel. The results are as follows:

Battery#1 fully charged (charger charges to 14.4V) and dropped to 13.34V after disconnecting the charger. Tested at 0.2C with a capacity 73Ah. This battery was fully charged and load tested twice yesterday.

Battery#2 fully charged and settled out to 13.5x V. Tested at 0.2C with a capacity 95Ah.

Battery #3 fully charged and settled out to 13.7x V. Tested at 0.2C with a capacity 101Ah.
Battery #4 fully charged and settled out to 13.7x V. Tested at 0.2C with a capacity 102Ah.

The closer the batteries were to the defective battery in the parallel connection have lower tested capacities.

I have spoken to Lion Energy and went over the results of my testing. All they asked me to do was to send them proof of purchase and a photo of the batteries UPC code per email. I have sent it all off and am awaiting a response. Will keep you posted.

 

[Repro]

A friend of mine has the same set of four batteries that were bought at the same time last year and put into use after a full charge on each individual battery. It's working well. I did the battery wiring, which is different from the way you did it.

Can you post a picture of your battery bank, specifically the interconnects?

Can't post a picture, the batteries have been removed. The batteries were side by side and connected with copper bus bars that I purchased, cut and drilled to equal lengths that fit the terminals to exact length. The copper is then insulated in the middle with shrink tubing. I did have 2/0 cables on the initial build but removed them shortly after and went with bus bars. The 2/0 cables were just too clunky. Here is the link to the copper bars I purchased:

Amazon.com

I have the same copper bus bars on my 24V system with four 12V AmpereTime Plus 200Ah batteries. Each of two connected in series with these bus bars, then connected with 2/0 cable to the power distribution bus bar in parallel. Works great, no issues with the batteries. I took a picture so you can see them on my 24V system in series. I do the same, but in parallel with the Lion Energy batteries. It is so much cleaner and the connection is solid with high conductivity.

 

[Substrate]

To avoid a skewing of your measurements - how well are you connecting the ET5410 to the battery?

Hopefully not with a pair of alligator clips.

Sorry - but had to ask as we can't see that important detail at this distance since this kind of poor connection is seen often.

 

[Repro]

8 gauge cable with crimped copper lugs on each end.

 

[HRTKD]

Can't post a picture, the batteries have been removed. The batteries were side by side and connected with copper bus bars that I purchased, cut and drilled to equal lengths that fit the terminals to exact length. The copper is then insulated in the middle with shrink tubing. I did have 2/0 cables on the initial build but removed them shortly after and went with bus bars. The 2/0 cables were just too clunky. Here is the link to the copper bars I purchased:

Amazon.com

I have the same copper bus bars on my 24V system with four 12V AmpereTime Plus 200Ah batteries. Each of two connected in series with these bus bars, then connected with 2/0 cable to the power distribution bus bar in parallel. Works great, no issues with the batteries. I took a picture so you can see them on my 24V system in series. I do the same, but in parallel with the Lion Energy batteries. It is so much cleaner and the connection is solid with high conductivity.

While you may very well have a defective battery, the way you have connected the batteries is inefficient. The outer batteries will end up with a higher voltage than the inner batteries.

Check out the thread below for the mathematical guidance on the optimal way to wire your batteries.

Calculation of parallel string battery currents

Hi, everybody! I'm a retired EE. I didn't want my EE skills to fade away after retirment, so I exercise them when I can. Whenever I see a non-trivial circuit analysis problem on one of various forums I frequent, I challenge myself to solve it. Recently I watched Will's video about current...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Repro]

While you may very well have a defective battery, the way you have connected the batteries is inefficient. The outer batteries will end up with a higher voltage than the inner batteries.

Check out the thread below for the mathematical guidance on the optimal way to wire your batteries.

Calculation of parallel string battery currents

Hi, everybody! I'm a retired EE. I didn't want my EE skills to fade away after retirment, so I exercise them when I can. Whenever I see a non-trivial circuit analysis problem on one of various forums I frequent, I challenge myself to solve it. Recently I watched Will's video about current...

diysolarforum.com

I could easily modify my set up by drilling two holes at the halfway point as shown and connecting from there. Mathematically speaking this piece is interesting, however the batteries have been connected, and my charging parameters were suggested to me and approved my Lion Energy. I did it the way they told me.

 

[Repro]

Lion Energy informed me today that they are sending me a replacement battery, and a pre-paid label inside a return box for the defective battery. I was also informed that the battery would probably arrive before the label and box. The process of a warranty claim with Lion Energy was totally painless and easy. I wish all companies were this good.

 

[Substrate]

What HRTKD is pointing out is that your wiring (as far as I can determine) is the classic mistake which promotes an overall bank imbalance. All the time.

The overarching rule is this:

1) Parallel first to build up your desired capacity.

2) Series connect those from #1 to build up your voltage.

3) Don't make end-of-string terminal connections. Cross-connect, or otherwise share the current load connections equally.

If you don't parallel first for capacity, then the bank has a natural proclivity to being unbalanced and not performing as well as it can. It is not even chemically dependent - lead acid banks built this way suffer too.

I'm afraid that you'll end up in the same boat with the replacements.

 

[Repro]

I am not being hard on his reply. I do all of the above listed steps for paralleling. I also have four 48V/100Ah server rack batteries in parallel as well in a Signature Solar rack with bus bars. The exact same steps have been followed. The only thing I can change is where the bus bar cable lead is positioned half way between the first/second and third/fourth batteries on the bus bar for the cross connect. I currently use the end terminals on the Lion Energy batteries. On the server rack batteries I use the ends of the bus bars for the cross connect. The diagram below shows how I had the Lion Energy batteries connected. I will make the change to move the cable connections on the bus bars as mentioned above. By the way, the batteries are actually butted against each other and secured with straps to ensure that there is no movement. The Lion Energy batteries are completely flat with no raised edges anywhere allowing for exact butting together. The bus bars are cut to length and holes drilled exactly at each terminal. Heat shrink is slid over the bus bar and positioned between each of the battery terminals for safety. The batteries are also secured to a custom made battery tray. The entire set up adds to the strength of the battery bank.

I hope this explains how I had my batteries configured.

 

[Substrate]

Cool - sometimes we all forget (myself included) that a text-based medium totally lacks human tone, body characteristics yadda yadda...

So at this distance we're asking what might appear to be dumb questions only due to distance and a desire to find that catch-22. You very well could simply have a bad batt however.

What amperage are you using for discharge testing? If very high for quick results, perhaps that one outlier is on the edge of that acceptable discharge curve current skewing results.

Again, at this distance some of this may be wags looking for a catch-22 that is overlooked. Or you are entirely right and just have a bad batt.

 

[Repro]

Cool - sometimes we all forget (myself included) that a text-based medium totally lacks human tone, body characteristics yadda yadda...

So at this distance we're asking what might appear to be dumb questions only due to distance and a desire to find that catch-22. You very well could simply have a bad batt however.

What amperage are you using for discharge testing? If very high for quick results, perhaps that one outlier is on the edge of that acceptable discharge curve current skewing results.

Again, at this distance some of this may be wags looking for a catch-22 that is overlooked. Or you are entirely right and just have a bad batt.

If you read my test results above, 0.2C load or 20A. Using my multi-meter with amp clamp to verify, the load was 19.92A with slight fluctuation. I kept the cable connections between the batteries and load tester to a minimum length with 8 gauge cable and crimped copper lugs. The room temperature and humidity were constant at around 75 degrees and 50%.

I tried to duplicate the testing on each battery with the same factors to minimize variables that could affect the outcome. I actually ran a capacity test with my old 180W load tester using 10 AWG wire and spade connectors to see what a difference in results I would get. The defective battery tested out at almost 75Ah (74.8Ah). The East Tester on two separate runs tested out at 73Ah. So even the old little tester was close in the results which surprised me. I thought it would be way off.

 

[Substrate]

Oops - sorry I missed that 0.2C. Sounds like all your ducks are in order. Let us know how the replacement works out.

 

[Repro]

Got a tracking number today. Lion energy actually had the seller I bought it from send me the replacement. Expected delivery date is this coming Friday.

 

[Repro]

I forgot to mention that Lion Energy wanted the serial number of the battery which was well hidden. Lion Energy prints the serial numbers on the housing under the flip up handles. Just lift the handles and look on the outside edge of the housing to find it.

My replacement Lion Energy UT1300 showed up Friday. Unpacked it, charged it and did a load test. Charged it again and load tested a second time, the battery is good.

A return box was sent separately that was fully prepared for return shipping of the old battery. I just unpacked the box, opened it, removed the sturdy foam that was custom fit for the battery, put the old battery in the box using the protective foam and taped it shut. Dropped it off with receipt of proof I sent it.

The entire process was totally painless and professional. If anyone is looking for a great battery with super reliable customer support, and a warranty a company stands behind, get Lion Energy. When I need 12V batteries in this format, I am staying with them.

I hope this little posting was a help to someone. If you have any questions about the warranty process, post it here. I will try to help you out although I think it is clear how it works.

 

[Consumerbot3418]

Just want to add that my brother had a fantastic support experience from Lion as well. Without getting too detailed, he had a small accident that inflicted mechanical damage on several batteries. One of them ended up smoking (shorted cell, probably), and they replaced it! Another had a terminal torn loose, but since it remained functional, it wasn’t a candidate for replacement.

In summary, I’d heartily recommend Lion Energy based on his support experience. I’ve been happy with my batteries, too, but haven’t had need to contact customer service.