Don't buy these, they are garbage!

[Justin Laureltec]

Annnnd now you know why some people (like me) are sceptical of paying double for something that looks identical to a knockoff. There are some good sellers out there that unknowingly buy in quantity from shady wholesalers and end up selling counterfeits as real without even knowing it. I'm not talking about you of course, just that it is VERY common on ebay, so I won't buy anything without being reasonably sure myself what I'm getting.

Oh hell, I'm right there with you... plus I spend all this time on a soapbox about name-brand components and then our own listing doesn't have the name on them Ah well, some days go like that! For your reference, however, here is an Amazon link to the breaker I'm talking about (not our listing): https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-CB2...ace+mount+breaker&qid=1575411137&sr=8-1-fkmr3

Posted both for reference as well as purchase, since this seems to be a better price than ours anyway Honestly I care less about sales (I'm the tech support guy, not a salesman) than just making sure people have good and safe systems out there.

 

[oldcat]

i just boutght this CB 285 BUSS 50 amp breaker ...DO i need to send this Back or is this Legit

 

[Justin Laureltec]

i just boutght this CB 285 BUSS 50 amp breaker ...DO i need to send this Back or is this Legit

That's a bit odd that it doesn't show the rating at the top, or have the last three numbers of the part number after the 285 at the lower right... but it does appear to be legit. Did it come in a white box as in my photo above, with the Buss logo and such?

 

[oldcat]

haven't got it yet.. i will let you no when i get it ... that what makes me concerned that it doesn't show the rating i just realized that when you guy started talking about this

 

[Justin Laureltec]

haven't got it yet.. i will let you no when i get it ... that what makes me concerned that it doesn't show the rating i just realized that when you guy started talking about this

Yeah, my thought is just that it's a stock photo, which wouldn't usually show the rating because of course that print changes when the entirety of the rest of the device is identical. I bet you're good, but definitely let us know!

 

[Deleted member 783]

Ah! Fair enough! Bussman (or Buss or Eaton Cooper Bussman) is the name to look for in quality breakers/fuses/etc. They're OEM for all of Blue Sea's fuses and breakers (ie, the Blue Sea 7182 = the Bussman CB285F-40 in Blue Sea's packaging) as well as OEM for a vast number of automakers and home electrical systems (when you're in Home Depot and see Cooper light switches or breakers, it's the same Cooper as Eaton Cooper Bussman).
Basically, short of LittelFuse and a bare handful of others, Bussman is pretty much the electrical switch/fuse/breaker component supplier for half the planet.
Now, I've certainly encountered some knockoffs that actually performed just fine... but you start running into issues like overheating, early popping, late popping, and below-rated capabilities because the Bussman external design was copied but not the internal components/ build quality. Thus why I always say, don't take the chance unless you literally have no choice. Any breaker is arguably better than no breaker... but man, a defective off-brand breaker can be disastrous because it gives you a false sense of security.
So, off my soapbox, sorry... but definitely look for genuine Bussman/Buss/Eaton Cooper Bussman components when you're looking for your fuses/breakers/etc if you really want dependability and performance to listed specifications.

Ok great!! Thanks for the advice! I will put it to use.

 

[Keith C]

The Cooper Bussmann are solid. They are marine approved. Work as advertised. Do note that circuit protect interrupters have a maximum interruption limit. You need to check that number against whatever your battery system can deliver. If your system can potentially deliver more than that then you need to move along to something else. Some fuses can interrupt pretty dang large banks. Alternatively if you can figure out how much your cabling can limit the peak current to the breaker then a breaker can still interrupt a larger than rated bank.

West Marine carries the BC line of breakers. Do note there are two families with slightly different ratings.

 

[erik.calco]

Oh hell, I'm right there with you... plus I spend all this time on a soapbox about name-brand components and then our own listing doesn't have the name on them Ah well, some days go like that! For your reference, however, here is an Amazon link to the breaker I'm talking about (not our listing): https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-CB2...ace+mount+breaker&qid=1575411137&sr=8-1-fkmr3

Posted both for reference as well as purchase, since this seems to be a better price than ours anyway Honestly I care less about sales (I'm the tech support guy, not a salesman) than just making sure people have good and safe systems out there.

Thanks. Now I have to wonder, is this really their store? lol

 

[Justin Laureltec]

Thanks. Now I have to wonder, is this really their store? lol

View attachment 2902

Well no... Amazon is super weird with the way listings get put into place. Whoever first creates a listing for a particular product ASIN gets to fill in the "by" field, and then everyone selling the same ASIN after that just piggybacks on the first listing. So generally speaking, the "by" field should be the manufacturer, not the seller, but if the original seller doesn't know that, or wants to create their own individual listing separate from everyone else's, the "by" field might have the seller name rather than the manufacturer name. (AM Solar's Victron listings are a great example of that; most of their Victron listings are listed as "by AM Solar" rather than "by Victron", and since they posted the ASINs first, all the rest of us selling Victron end up selling under AM Solar's listing).
In this instance, the seller is Crimp Supply Inc and fulfilled by Amazon.
Short story: Amazon listings are an absolute custerfluck.

 

[Deleted member 783]

Its ALL fake!! I'm putting a ball of tinfoil where my breaker used to be.

 

[Supervstech]

What size and length wire?

 

[erik.calco]

Well no... Amazon is super weird with the way listings get put into place. Whoever first creates a listing for a particular product ASIN gets to fill in the "by" field, and then everyone selling the same ASIN after that just piggybacks on the first listing. So generally speaking, the "by" field should be the manufacturer, not the seller, but if the original seller doesn't know that, or wants to create their own individual listing separate from everyone else's, the "by" field might have the seller name rather than the manufacturer name. (AM Solar's Victron listings are a great example of that; most of their Victron listings are listed as "by AM Solar" rather than "by Victron", and since they posted the ASINs first, all the rest of us selling Victron end up selling under AM Solar's listing).
In this instance, the seller is Crimp Supply Inc and fulfilled by Amazon.
Short story: Amazon listings are an absolute custerfluck.

Thanks for the clarification. Saved me a phone call to a friend who sells on both eBay and Amazon. I couldn't find a store for them on eBay. I rarely shop on Amazon, so don't know how to review the seller. I do have your store on my eBay saves, though, and gave positive feedback. ?

I remembered, I served part of my Junior Achievement time at EATON Corporation for a 15 week course I was awarded. lol

But their site is currently down. Trying to review their specs to ensure they are rated for up to 150VDC, which you want for PV.

EDIT: Their site is a DNS issue. Works with other DNS server.

 

[Justin Laureltec]

Thanks for the clarification. Saved me a phone call to a friend who sells on both eBay and Amazon. I couldn't find a store for them on eBay. I rarely shop on Amazon, so don't know how to review the seller. I do have your store on my eBay saves, though, and gave positive feedback. ?

I remembered, I served part of my Junior Achievement time at EATON Corporation for a 15 week course I was awarded. lol

But their site is currently down. Trying to review their specs to ensure they are rated for up to 150VDC, which you want for PV.

EDIT: Their site is a DNS issue. Works with other DNS server.

Ahhhh most of their stuff is only going to be rated to 48v nominal (so around 56v actual). For the PV side of things I always recommend the MidNite Solar MNEPV series breakers, since they're rated to 150vDC and series-connectable for higher voltages.

 

[erik.calco]

Ahhhh most of their stuff is only going to be rated to 48v nominal (so around 56v actual). For the PV side of things I always recommend the MidNite Solar MNEPV series breakers, since they're rated to 150vDC and series-connectable for higher voltages.

Can I get a shameless link, please? lol

 

[Justin Laureltec]

They're here on our website... doesn't look like we're listing them on Amazon or eBay yet.

Though you may(?) be able to buy them directly from MidNite Solar as well...

 

[erik.calco]

They're here on our website... doesn't look like we're listing them on Amazon or eBay yet.

Though you may(?) be able to buy them directly from MidNite Solar as well...

That whole DIN thin is where I get lost. Well, DC breaker panels in general. They throw in shunts. Then you have ground breakers triggering on 1 amp. I'll be researching this more. I'd buy a surface mount just to get by for now doing light testing with only a couple panels. But, ultimately want to get it all right and be able to sleep peacefully. I asked altE who I ordered panels from to put together a BOM of anything they recommend in the PV circuit from panels to the inverter. They didn't come back with anything today.

If you can throw together recommendations that would help. Panel/DINs, grounding, etc,...

If this is too vague you can wait until I read and have more details. Or if this isn't something you feel comfortable with, I understand.

I can't say when I'll have more detailed requirements as I'm doing a lot of things at once, and just reading this grounding report is taking time.

 

[erik.calco]

@Justin Laureltec insanity e.g., 100 amp 150VDC Panel Mount Dual DC Ground Fault Protector

WTF do we do with that? lol

 

[Justin Laureltec]

Oooof yeah, the design/BOM depends entirely on the details of what you're working with... and the conditions you're working with it in. Most of our customers are doing mobile installs with limited PV V/A, so the breakers and controllers and inverters and grounding needs are all fairly straightforward... once you have some details together, I'd be happy to advise up to the limits of my knowledge, but I'm definitely not the most qualified person in the world to ensure you get all that right.

 

[erik.calco]

Oooof yeah, the design/BOM depends entirely on the details of what you're working with... and the conditions you're working with it in. Most of our customers are doing mobile installs with limited PV V/A, so the breakers and controllers and inverters and grounding needs are all fairly straightforward... once you have some details together, I'd be happy to advise up to the limits of my knowledge, but I'm definitely not the most qualified person in the world to ensure you get all that right.

Don't worry. I won't assume you're an expert. Just anything helps, notably to parts that go together.

6x320W, likely in 2S3P (2x24V=48V nominal, or Voc 2x40V=80V). Mounted simple initially near ground of yard. Later, maybe on a pavilion. Not on a house, for sure. 60-80 amp Inverter in house. Northern USA climate. That's all I have right now for requirements. Oh...

1> Inverter never catches on fire.
2> Nothing else catches on fire.
3> No one is ever shocked.
4> Equipment lasts 20-30 years.

 

[Justin Laureltec]

Don't worry. I won't assume you're an expert. Just anything helps, notably to parts that go together.

6x320W, likely in 2S3P (2x24V=48V nominal, or Voc 2x40V=80V). Mounted simple initially near ground of yard. Later, maybe on a pavilion. Not on a house, for sure. 60-80 amp Inverter in house. Northern USA climate. That's all I have right now for requirements. Oh...

1> Inverter never catches on fire.
2> Nothing else catches on fire.
3> No one is ever shocked.
4> Equipment lasts 20-30 years.

Hmmmmm let me think about that one... I don't typically deal with in-home installations so I'll need to do some research. The 20-30 year requirement is a tall order... I mean, I trust Victron to 10 years or more without question, but...

 

[erik.calco]

Hmmmmm let me think about that one... I don't typically deal with in-home installations so I'll need to do some research. The 20-30 year requirement is a tall order... I mean, I trust Victron to 10 years or more without question, but...

Remember, I have the inverter and panels. This is just about safety in the PV circuit between them... breakers, switches, branch connectors, grounding, etc,... I have 10 gauge PV cable.

 

[Justin Laureltec]

Remember, I have the inverter and panels. This is just about safety in the PV circuit between them... breakers, switches, branch connectors, grounding, etc,... I have 10 gauge PV cable.

This is non-grid-tie, correct? Or are you selling back to the grid?

 

[erik.calco]

This is non-grid-tie, correct? Or are you selling back to the grid?

Non-grid tie with DC PV circuit (no microcontrollers, just a single MPPT for now).

 

[Justin Laureltec]

Non-grid tie with DC PV circuit (no microcontrollers, just a single MPPT for now).

Okay... given that, then my impression -and again, let me reiterate that permanent installations are not my forte, as their requirements are significantly different than mobile installations, so I'm definitely not the expert for this application- is that the proper grounding method would be to tie all panel frames together with through-frame grounding clamps and copper wire and run that down to a PE ground (literally a grounding rod pounded into the dirt with the wire clamped to it), then same on the controller and inverter side... take a copper wire from the chassis ground screws and run it outside to a PE ground. If you're not tying into your home electrical panel, then I would not ground it to the same ground as the panel; I'd want to keep the two different electrical systems entirely isolated from one another.
I'd recommend the MidNite Solar MNPV3 Solar Combiner Box for your application (given your stated 2s3p configuration). Note that's not a link to us - we don't carry those, but I reasonably trust Northern AZ Wind & Sun. A number of our customers have used them for other things and been happy with pricing/customer service/etc. In fact, it might be worth giving them a call and talking to them about your system, as they're far more familiar with home solar systems than I am.
By my understanding, however, you'd then run plastic conduit out of the combiner box with your (now) 1 POS and 1 NEG DC cable inside, presumably burying the conduit, over to your solar controller which I assume would be mounted in your garage or something, and connect normally. I'd plan on burial just for protection of the cabling, but of course if you were rigging it up prior to permanent placement you could just lay out the conduit in your yard. I'd personally really rather see the DC power wire in the plastic conduit, though... I know there's direct-burial cable available but I always prefer a rigid shell in case of FUBAR.

 

[erik.calco]

Okay... given that, then my impression -and again, let me reiterate that permanent installations are not my forte, as their requirements are significantly different than mobile installations, so I'm definitely not the expert for this application- is that the proper grounding method would be to tie all panel frames together with through-frame grounding clamps and copper wire and run that down to a PE ground (literally a grounding rod pounded into the dirt with the wire clamped to it), then same on the controller and inverter side... take a copper wire from the chassis ground screws and run it outside to a PE ground. If you're not tying into your home electrical panel, then I would not ground it to the same ground as the panel; I'd want to keep the two different electrical systems entirely isolated from one another.
I'd recommend the MidNite Solar MNPV3 Solar Combiner Box for your application (given your stated 2s3p configuration). Note that's not a link to us - we don't carry those, but I reasonably trust Northern AZ Wind & Sun. A number of our customers have used them for other things and been happy with pricing/customer service/etc. In fact, it might be worth giving them a call and talking to them about your system, as they're far more familiar with home solar systems than I am.
By my understanding, however, you'd then run plastic conduit out of the combiner box with your (now) 1 POS and 1 NEG DC cable inside, presumably burying the conduit, over to your solar controller which I assume would be mounted in your garage or something, and connect normally. I'd plan on burial just for protection of the cabling, but of course if you were rigging it up prior to permanent placement you could just lay out the conduit in your yard. I'd personally really rather see the DC power wire in the plastic conduit, though... I know there's direct-burial cable available but I always prefer a rigid shell in case of FUBAR.

Thank you very much, Justin. Yesterday, altE did get back to me with video links to our Solar Queen, which I put here. That's where I collect all solar info... mostly just rough notes even though it is technically in a site. One day I may clean it up.

She also recommended MidNite Solar for the combiner box. And thanks to you, I have a link to an actual part and confirmation they are likely a good manufacterer. She also recommended that baby box DIN thing you talked about that one night, so if I can ever understand how to hook it up, I'll probably end up with one of those. You covered the basics of grounding. There is more too it that I'm not sure I'll need at this point.

I'm not planning on using AC grounding for DC grounding. But, since the inverter is in my house, may in the near term just connect it to a copper pipe that just happens to be earth grounded for the AC side. Whether or not that is ideal is a question I'll be considering as I read up on grounding. All the AC side will, however, ultimately share this ground. The transfer panel I'm using includes a ground wire that goes into the main. The inverter's AC out will then share this transfer panel ground, per the transfer switch instructions. The AC in for the inverter will use the ground in the main, standard for any circuit in the main. So, AC is good there. DC is only side where I have to figure it out, and PV is primary concern. Solar Queen, IIRC, mentioned the combiner box being grounded.

Where grounding gets confusing is when you have that special breaker with a 1 amp for tripping. So, in that case, you're not just grounding, but tripping the breaker when ground gets current. That's something I need to figure out still. And when you start talking about that, and shunts in DC Distribution Boxes, that's where I feel I have the most to learn.

Thanks again for your help!