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EG4 18Kpv Off-Grid with Generator backup ... Problem

Oklahoma Connection

New Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2023
Messages
7
Location
Atoka County, OK
I'm posting as a Newbie even though I've run my off-grid system for a couple months already. I'm an old EE with tons of industry experience, but have found out that this means I'm still a dummy on Solar stuff. I'm running with about 10KW of PV input, 60 KWH of batteries (EG4 LiFePo4) .... totally capable of handling my entire complex electrical load (aver 30 KWH/day 90% of the time ... 45 KWH/day when all the kids are here (who have zero idea of what Load Management means). I built it all myself, so I know what I've got and how the parts fit together.

My auto-start generator is a new Champion HSG 12.5 KW on propane .... works great .... Inverter start/stop works just fine .... THD is LT 5%. About 2 weeks ago, the Inverter quit "using" the generator .... it would start it based on my settings for backup battery charge [or I could start the Gen manually] ... the Gen Icon pops up on the Inverter LCD screen but doesn't "connect". Loads are not powered, Batteries not charged. Useless. I've checked all settings .... Signature Solar has checked all settings and watched it on remote .... we're all puzzled. I've looked all over for technical leads ... or for somebody else with this problem .... Nada so far.

Questions: 1) Any idea what is going on here? Note that for at least 6 weeks, the 18Kpv managed (and beneficially used) the Generator perfectly .... until it didn't.

2) The Gen output is about 244 VAC with frequency 61 or 62 Hz ... it's obviously a synchronous Gen, so that's not unusual (at least for my experience). Sig Solar doesn't seem to be worried about that either. [Note .... again, this is all clearly evident on the LCD display while the Gen is running .. and can be verified with a multimeter.]

3) Sig Solar kinda wants to run the Gen power into the Grid port (which is open, of course) instead of the Generator port, and "run it as a MicroGrid". My question to them is: "Why don't we just troubleshoot the real problem .... instead of trying one-off, slight-of-hand magic." Maybe I'm just nervous about this mode of operation .... lacking any experience with MicroGrid, and unable to find a who lot of doco ... any comments? And, just for the record, I have zero interest in Smart Load sophistry.

My whole objective with this PV System is to leave my grandkids with a stable, manageable Electric supply ... particularly when the geniuses in the US Goverment manage to completely crater the USA Power Grid .... which they are making rapid progress in doing. So it needs to stay as simple as possible, and with no Grid-Tie whatsoever.
Any thoughts, inputs, and comments greatly appreciated .... and I am not sensitive about being called an old fool. HIt me with your best shot!
Thanks guys!
 
I'm posting as a Newbie even though I've run my off-grid system for a couple months already. I'm an old EE with tons of industry experience, but have found out that this means I'm still a dummy on Solar stuff. I'm running with about 10KW of PV input, 60 KWH of batteries (EG4 LiFePo4) .... totally capable of handling my entire complex electrical load (aver 30 KWH/day 90% of the time ... 45 KWH/day when all the kids are here (who have zero idea of what Load Management means). I built it all myself, so I know what I've got and how the parts fit together.

My auto-start generator is a new Champion HSG 12.5 KW on propane .... works great .... Inverter start/stop works just fine .... THD is LT 5%. About 2 weeks ago, the Inverter quit "using" the generator .... it would start it based on my settings for backup battery charge [or I could start the Gen manually] ... the Gen Icon pops up on the Inverter LCD screen but doesn't "connect". Loads are not powered, Batteries not charged. Useless. I've checked all settings .... Signature Solar has checked all settings and watched it on remote .... we're all puzzled. I've looked all over for technical leads ... or for somebody else with this problem .... Nada so far.

Questions: 1) Any idea what is going on here? Note that for at least 6 weeks, the 18Kpv managed (and beneficially used) the Generator perfectly .... until it didn't.

2) The Gen output is about 244 VAC with frequency 61 or 62 Hz ... it's obviously a synchronous Gen, so that's not unusual (at least for my experience). Sig Solar doesn't seem to be worried about that either. [Note .... again, this is all clearly evident on the LCD display while the Gen is running .. and can be verified with a multimeter.]

3) Sig Solar kinda wants to run the Gen power into the Grid port (which is open, of course) instead of the Generator port, and "run it as a MicroGrid". My question to them is: "Why don't we just troubleshoot the real problem .... instead of trying one-off, slight-of-hand magic." Maybe I'm just nervous about this mode of operation .... lacking any experience with MicroGrid, and unable to find a who lot of doco ... any comments? And, just for the record, I have zero interest in Smart Load sophistry.

My whole objective with this PV System is to leave my grandkids with a stable, manageable Electric supply ... particularly when the geniuses in the US Goverment manage to completely crater the USA Power Grid .... which they are making rapid progress in doing. So it needs to stay as simple as possible, and with no Grid-Tie whatsoever.
Any thoughts, inputs, and comments greatly appreciated .... and I am not sensitive about being called an old fool. HIt me with your best shot!
Thanks guys!
Im pretty sure you just need the firmware updated to anything else but OEOE
 
Thank you .... the 18Kpv is at release A1.0 (Build version fAAB-1312). I've asked Sig Solar if this is the latest GA (Generally Available) release, and they say "You bet". I'm doing more checking now ....
 
Good morning!
OP - curious if you were able to resolve this issue.

@Markus_EG4
Were you able to solve this issue? I'm having the exact same issue as the OP with my Champion 7k -9k inverter generator.
Completely off grid inverter setup.
Icon shows up on the LCD, voltage is 242.9 VAC at 60.2 hz (confirmed at the GEN ports with VOM). No watts pulled.
I am using the latest firmware available from the EG4 Monitor App.
 
Has anyone with an 18Kpv had any success running an inverter generator through the generator ports? Or set up as micro grid?
I haven't seen any success stories in the forums. The generator troubleshooting threads I've researched are typically non-inverter generators which makes sense as to why they are having issues.
I can get the 18Kpv to display the generator icon with good voltage and hz, I can get it to display good voltage and hz when set up as a micro grid at the "tower" icon. The inverter will not make use of the additional power in either setup.
Been a long three day struggle.
 
Has anyone with an 18Kpv had any success running an inverter generator through the generator ports? Or set up as micro grid?
I haven't seen any success stories in the forums. The generator troubleshooting threads I've researched are typically non-inverter generators which makes sense as to why they are having issues.
I can get the 18Kpv to display the generator icon with good voltage and hz, I can get it to display good voltage and hz when set up as a micro grid at the "tower" icon. The inverter will not make use of the additional power in either setup.
Been a long three day struggle.
It's been a long time since I tested generator on my 18Kpv. It was an early firmware version. Maybe I need to redo this test.
 
Good morning!
OP - curious if you were able to resolve this issue.

@Markus_EG4
Were you able to solve this issue? I'm having the exact same issue as the OP with my Champion 7k -9k inverter generator.
Completely off grid inverter setup.
Icon shows up on the LCD, voltage is 242.9 VAC at 60.2 hz (confirmed at the GEN ports with VOM). No watts pulled.
I am using the latest firmware available from the EG4 Monitor App.
Forgive this delayed reply! Just too much going on, and I'm behind on reading the Forum. Quick Answer: YES ... problem resolved ... SS replaced my 18Kpv with a new one .... and it works (nearly) perfectly. Kudo's to SS for being forthcoming and honoring the Warranty so quickly. I've followed up with SS Tech to see what the inverter fault was ... they said that a couple of MOSFETs were burnt out ... but I've got no other useful input. They never suggested that I'd done anything unnatural to cause this ... and honestly, I haven't. I'm always lightly loaded (average 20-25 KWH per day), and I've never seen a peak load over 10 KW, and that only rarely. Since I'm totally Off-Grid like you, this thing has to work well, and usually it does. The one persistent problem I have seen is that one of my 12 batteries (LiFePo4 .. 48 V) ... a different battery every time, so I don't suspect the battery itself ...... will Fault on high voltage and shut down the Inverter. It's quick and easy to resolve (reset the battery and the 18Kpv restarts) ... but I have to be home! It happened last Saturday while I was out of state ... not good. I'm trying to get info from SS on Inverter firmware release 1717 .... I'll put it on if SS or EG4 thinks it will help resolve this issue. Otherwise, I'm not big on being on the bleeding edge. (Having over 50 years experience in software design). Good luck ... again, sorry for the delay!
 
Forgive this delayed reply! Just too much going on, and I'm behind on reading the Forum. Quick Answer: YES ... problem resolved ... SS replaced my 18Kpv with a new one .... and it works (nearly) perfectly. Kudo's to SS for being forthcoming and honoring the Warranty so quickly. I've followed up with SS Tech to see what the inverter fault was ... they said that a couple of MOSFETs were burnt out ... but I've got no other useful input. They never suggested that I'd done anything unnatural to cause this ... and honestly, I haven't. I'm always lightly loaded (average 20-25 KWH per day), and I've never seen a peak load over 10 KW, and that only rarely. Since I'm totally Off-Grid like you, this thing has to work well, and usually it does. The one persistent problem I have seen is that one of my 12 batteries (LiFePo4 .. 48 V) ... a different battery every time, so I don't suspect the battery itself ...... will Fault on high voltage and shut down the Inverter. It's quick and easy to resolve (reset the battery and the 18Kpv restarts) ... but I have to be home! It happened last Saturday while I was out of state ... not good. I'm trying to get info from SS on Inverter firmware release 1717 .... I'll put it on if SS or EG4 thinks it will help resolve this issue. Otherwise, I'm not big on being on the bleeding edge. (Having over 50 years experience in software design). Good luck ... again, sorry for the delay!

Would you be able to verify which firmware your LifePower4 batteries are on? Below you will find what was address in the 1717 firmware:
  • New feature: On-grid load balance and PV Sell for parallel system
  • New feature: Parallel settings synchronization
  • Flicker optimization: Voltage drop when heavy load start
  • Optimization for generator application, such as transfer time, warm up, cool down, exercise, and quick start&stop remotely.
  • Issue fixed: Generator End volt/SOC setting not working correctly
  • Bug fixed: Cannot exit EPS mode when RSD active​
Where I don't believe the latest firmware for the 18kPV would address the issues you are facing (unless the over voltage only occurs when charging with gen input), it could help with the generator connection.
 
Forgive this delayed reply! Just too much going on, and I'm behind on reading the Forum. Quick Answer: YES ... problem resolved ... SS replaced my 18Kpv with a new one .... and it works (nearly) perfectly. Kudo's to SS for being forthcoming and honoring the Warranty so quickly. I've followed up with SS Tech to see what the inverter fault was ... they said that a couple of MOSFETs were burnt out ... but I've got no other useful input. They never suggested that I'd done anything unnatural to cause this ... and honestly, I haven't. I'm always lightly loaded (average 20-25 KWH per day), and I've never seen a peak load over 10 KW, and that only rarely. Since I'm totally Off-Grid like you, this thing has to work well, and usually it does. The one persistent problem I have seen is that one of my 12 batteries (LiFePo4 .. 48 V) ... a different battery every time, so I don't suspect the battery itself ...... will Fault on high voltage and shut down the Inverter. It's quick and easy to resolve (reset the battery and the 18Kpv restarts) ... but I have to be home! It happened last Saturday while I was out of state ... not good. I'm trying to get info from SS on Inverter firmware release 1717 .... I'll put it on if SS or EG4 thinks it will help resolve this issue. Otherwise, I'm not big on being on the bleeding edge. (Having over 50 years experience in software design). Good luck ... again, sorry for the delay!
Are you using the Communication Hub?
 
Are you using the Communication Hub?
Not using Comm Hub. I haven't seen (or understood) any substantive reason to do so .....

All 12 of my batteries are on firmware V3.32 --- updated on 9/23/23.

Call me a dummy, but I seem to have trouble finding current info on the GA firmware releases (Inverter, batteries, LCD). Sometimes I stumble into them, or read useful info on the Forum. But ....
 
Not using Comm Hub. I haven't seen (or understood) any substantive reason to do so .....

All 12 of my batteries are on firmware V3.32 --- updated on 9/23/23.

Call me a dummy, but I seem to have trouble finding current info on the GA firmware releases (Inverter, batteries, LCD). Sometimes I stumble into them, or read useful info on the Forum. But ....

We're actively working on making the change logs more accessible. Presently, the LifePower4 change logs are available in the firmware download file, while for the 18kPV, they should be accessible within the firmware download section of the monitoring app (although I'm not entirely sure if end users can see this). I highly recommend updating the LifePower4 firmware to v3.37, as it improves charging logic in parallel.
 
Has anyone with an 18Kpv had any success running an inverter generator through the generator ports? Or set up as micro grid?
I haven't seen any success stories in the forums. The generator troubleshooting threads I've researched are typically non-inverter generators which makes sense as to why they are having issues.
I can get the 18Kpv to display the generator icon with good voltage and hz, I can get it to display good voltage and hz when set up as a micro grid at the "tower" icon. The inverter will not make use of the additional power in either setup.
Been a long three day struggle.
take a look at my post. You may gleam some insight(s). https://diysolarforum.com/threads/eg4-18k-pv-back-feeding-on-gen-port.81139/
 
That's likely what I need ... (improved charging logic in parallel) .... thanks a bunch! I (finally) found the V3.37 download doco & binc file and will upgrade all batteries to V3.37 tomorrow. God willing ....
Updates recommended. That's the next step I did after unboxing & wiring up. "zero idea of what Load Management means" - good one!!! I second that observation :)
 
Has anyone with an 18Kpv had any success running an inverter generator through the generator ports? Or set up as micro grid?
I haven't seen any success stories in the forums. The generator troubleshooting threads I've researched are typically non-inverter generators which makes sense as to why they are having issues.
I can get the 18Kpv to display the generator icon with good voltage and hz, I can get it to display good voltage and hz when set up as a micro grid at the "tower" icon. The inverter will not make use of the additional power in either setup.
Been a long three day struggle.
Its turning out to be an adventure.
 
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