Flexible Panels hit Prime Time?

[svetz]

While posting in @Kathymel's thread Upgrading system thread I advised her not to use Flexible panels.

But I had to eat my words and wanted to repost here to make it more visible ... take a look at the current Renogy warranty (click the link, scroll down, then click the Specification tab) for their flexible panels, it sure looks like the technology has come of age:

25-year power output warranty: 5 year/95% efficiency rate, 10 year/90% efficiency rate, 25-year/80% efficiency rate
5-year material and workmanship warranty

100W for 4.2 lbs that could be glued down somewhere and is 21% efficient at $1.89/W?

This paves the way for a few more solar projects....We sure do live in interesting times! What sort of projects could you do with cheap long life flexible panels?

 

[Chefwhowa]

Very expensive for only 100w

 

[svetz]

Very expensive for only 100w

The stats/$ aren't great when compared to rigid panels...but light-weight flexible panels have different use cases. I never considered them previously as they were expensive and only lasted a few years. If they really last for 25 years now...that's news!

 

[svetz]

... flexible panels have different use cases... What sort of projects could you do with cheap long life flexible panels? For example, a small trolling motor can move my kayak quite well (30 lbs thrust, slow speed is 5 amps @12V = 60 watts). I could make a canopy/sunshade (aka bimini) with a flexible panel that would provide shade while I fished and have enough juice to run the motor for lazy days. A 4 lb weight overhead... no problem!

 

[svetz]

​	Could the recumbent be turned into an sBike?

 

[Supervstech]

Seriously? I wonder if the warranty excludes for misuse from improper ventilation? Glued down to a hot metal surface with no air passage under it... it could get very hot.

somebody needs to dig into the warranty wording.

 

[svetz]

...somebody needs to dig into the warranty wording....

Too funny, clicked on the warranty link and got a 404.

Update: Here's a working link.

The warranty does not cover failures result from incorrect handling, product modifications, installation, conversion or additions, supplements, operation, natural elements (weather), excessive or deficient energy supply, chemicals, the effect of solid bodies or deliberate damage.

Guess we'd need to check the installation manual..

Update2: Didn't see a manual for it in the dl section, but this was in the description:

Mounting Recommendation: Modules must be mounted using silicone structural adhesive on the backside of the panel, grommets are only to be used for non-mobile applications. For detailed installation methods, please consult a local contractor for guidance.

 

[Chefwhowa]

For example, a small trolling motor can move my kayak quite well (30 lbs thrust, slow speed is 5 amps @12V = 60 watts). I could make a canopy/sunshade (aka bimini) with a flexible panel that would provide shade while I fished and have enough juice to run the motor for lazy days. A 4 lb weight overhead... no problem!

Omg that would be perfect for my kayak! I live in Florida and it would be great to do that, please let me know if you do this and how it turns out

 

[svetz]

...Omg [OMG! OMG!!!!!]...

I know! Right! ;-)
The problem with adding a motor to a kayak in Florida, no matter how small, is that you need to get your kayak registered and to do that you need the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO).

But yeah, once @BiduleOhm stops bleeding me dry buying oscilloscopes and random number generators for my ultrasonic anemometer (or if I win the lotto) I'm so going to start looking for my MSO to see about doing this. Hopefully by then someone will have confirmed the panels are actually as good as they sound.

 

[Dzl]

Seriously? I wonder if the warranty excludes for misuse from improper ventilation? Glued down to a hot metal surface with no air passage under it... it could get very hot.

somebody needs to dig into the warranty wording.

I've heard a bit about how not mount flexible panels, but heard comparatively little about how best to mount them.

Have any opinions on the matter?

 

[Chefwhowa]

I know! Right! ;-)
The problem with adding a motor to a kayak in Florida, no matter how small, is that you need to get your kayak registered and to do that you need the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO).

But yeah, once @BiduleOhm stops bleeding me dry buying oscilloscopes and random number generators for my ultrasonic anemometer (or if I win the lotto) I'm so going to start looking for my MSO to see about doing this. Hopefully by then someone will have confirmed the panels are actually as good as they sound.

Yeah but if they dont know about it than it's ok lol. I'll look into this and see how much it will cost

 

[svetz]

... see how much it will cost...

It's like $12 $13 for a kayak per year... the real trick is finding your MSO.

 

[nosys70]

the problem with flexible panels is not the yield or the quality.
it is just the fact that the flexibility is obtained at the expense of durability.
and if you glue a flexible panel , incorporating it in a structure, replacing one could be a challenge.

 

[svetz]

...it is just the fact that the flexibility is obtained at the expense of durability....

That's what I thought too and why I was so surprised by a 25 year warranty.

 

[MrNatural22]

I've got two failed flex panels that went south within one year. They were mounted on frames with excellent air flow.
They are now expensive window coverings. ? ? ? ?
They are a waste of money in hot climates. Especially in Arizona.

 

[svetz]

...I've got two failed flex panels that went south within one year.

There are definitely crappy flexible panels out there....[ref]

• PET-laminated flexible panels generally have lifespans of up to 5 years
• ETFE-laminated flexible Solar cells have lifespans of up to 10 years.

Since Renogy is offering a 25 year warranty I'm guessing it's something new (or a misprint) ...would like to know what and if it's real.

...Seriously? I wonder if the warranty excludes for misuse from improper ventilation? Glued down to a hot metal surface with no air passage under it...

Check this out! Sure looks like glued to flat metal surface:

 

[svetz]

What Will said in 2019:

 

[MrNatural22]

There are definitely crappy flexible panels out there....[ref]

• PET-laminated flexible panels generally have lifespans of up to 5 years
• ETFE-laminated flexible Solar cells have lifespans of up to 10 years.

Since Renogy is offering a 25 year warranty I'm guessing it's something new...would like to know what and if it's real.


Check this out! Sure looks like glued to flat metal surface:

Yep I made the mistake of buying the Suaoki junk. Tried emailing them a few times but that was fruitless.
I cringe when I see that name on products.

 

[HRTKD]

Mounting panels to 3/8" Coroplast might work. Coroplast will melt at 324° F, but if the corrogation is oriented vertically and the bottom of the Coroplast isn't blocked it might be enough ventilation to keep it cool from melting.

 

[svetz]

Asked Renogy if the warranty was a misprint and if they could be mounted without an air-gap using silicon adhesive to a boat deck. They responded quickly... here's the gist of it:

...that warranty information is correct. The panels are ETFE and the mounting is usually done with some form of adhesive as you mentioned. As long as you don't make any modifications then you won't void the warranty

That doesn't quite jive with the "up to 10 years" we've heard about ETFE from other sources. On the other hand, DuPont says it should have a 30 year lifespan and there are easy to find references on how popular it's becoming... so perhaps the earlier ETFE panels had some manufacturing flaws?

Hard to say... one things for sure, the market place is going to be very confusing with PET, ETFE-old, and ETFE-new (actually, I don't think there is a way to distinguish between them other than warranty).