Flexible Panels hit Prime Time?

[MrNatural22]

I think that would meet Gnubie's elevation requirement. But for me at least... it would need to come with training wheels or other balance system; preferably something high tech like this gyroscope motorcycle.

Whoa... that would be a weird feeling
for cycle riders when entering a sweeping turn and the urge to lean occurs. ?

 

[svetz]

...for cycle riders when entering a sweeping turn and the urge to lean occurs. ?

Typically when I lean there's a reduction in potential energy.
But, in the case of the bike, keep watching in the video (~1:32) to where they twist the gyroscopes so the bike can lean into corners...sweet!

 

[MrNatural22]

Typically when I lean there's a reduction in potential energy.
But, in the case of the bike, keep watching in the video to where they twisted the gyroscope so the bike can lean into corners...sweet!

A slalom course on this would be a trip.

 

[svetz]

If you had infinite time and money, what would you build with flexible panels?

...Infinite money... [a plane with no moving parts]...

That's cool! It was a pity the solar plane that flew around the world didn't capture more of the world's attention. I thought that a brilliant achievement.

 

[learning all the time]

Mounting panels to 3/8" Coroplast might work. Coroplast will melt at 324° F, but if the corrogation is oriented vertically and the bottom of the Coroplast isn't blocked it might be enough ventilation to keep it cool from melting.

I've seen a few videos related to this type of installation. It is supposed to reduce heat on the panel and help with water drainage.

 

[fat_old_sun]

Seriously? I wonder if the warranty excludes for misuse from improper ventilation? Glued down to a hot metal surface with no air passage under it... it could get very hot.

somebody needs to dig into the warranty wording.

Flexible panels lose heat thru the front (Sun) side and not the rear. Gluing them to a rigid surface is acceptable and should not compromise heat dissipation.

What kills flex panels is repeated flexing. It leads to micro-cracks in the silicon cell, causing a mono crystalline to become a poly-crystalline. The same problem plagues large (250+ Watts), residential style panels installed on vibration prone platforms like RV's. A high efficiency 350 Watt panel (brand new) could easily lose 20% capacity in a few years. These are well documented failure modes - search for silicon panels micro-cracks failure on Google.

If you're determined to use large panels on RV's (for $/Watt reasons), install a few cross strips on the back to form an open lattice to support the glass & reduce unsupported span.

 

[MrNatural22]

If you want any sort of reasonable longevity from flexible panels they should have at least an inch of open air free flow underneath. Attaching to
Piece of coroplast would provide very little cooling airflow. In Arizona flex panels are short lived and virtually disposable in the high temps.

 

[fat_old_sun]

If you want any sort of reasonable longevity from flexible panels they should have at least an inch of open air free flow underneath. Attaching to
Piece of coroplast would provide very little cooling airflow. In Arizona flex panels are short lived and virtually disposable in the high temps. ✌

not sure if this in response to my posting just above yours. It's a myth that flex panels need a cooling space on the back side. The thermal resistance for heat flow thru the back is 20x or more greater than thru the front. In a glass-on-top-Tedlar-on-back type of rigid panels, it's the reverse; the resistance for heat flow thru the Tedlar layer is much lower.

 

[MrNatural22]

not sure if this in response to my posting just above yours. It's a myth that flex panels need a cooling space on the back side. The thermal resistance for heat flow thru the back is 20x or more greater than thru the front. In a glass-on-top-Tedlar-on-back type of rigid panels, it's the reverse; the resistance for heat flow thru the Tedlar layer is much lower.

Ok but, in my experience I’ve got two 100w flex panels that were mounted on a portable very rigid pvc frame open air to the rear and within one year they are both now very expensive wall art and window shades. These were not out full time.
They were portable and used maybe a week at a time. The summer heat in Arizona will destroy these panels.
Hope you have better luck.

 

[fat_old_sun]

Ok but, in my experience I’ve got two 100w flex panels that were mounted on a portable very rigid pvc frame open air to the rear and within one year they are both now very expensive wall art and window shades. These were not out full time.
They were portable and used maybe a week at a time. The summer heat in Arizona will destroy these panels.
Hope you have better luck. ✌

Well, we have five ambulance conversions that were done 4-5 years ago with flex panels glued to the box. The panels are still putting out close to their specs. These vehicles are used up & down the US West coast, summer & winter. Our anecdotal examples are not going to prove anything. I'm simply commenting on the heat loss mechanism differences between glass & flex panels.

If you have access to an IR thermal camera, look at the panels (cells) with the output wires shorted. You can immediately see which cells are failing and, sometimes, exactly where. If you examine those spots, you'll see a number of small cracks.

 

[learning all the time]

Well, we have five ambulance conversions that were done 4-5 years ago with flex panels glued to the box. The panels are still putting out close to their specs. These vehicles are used up & down the US West coast, summer & winter. Our anecdotal examples are not going to prove anything. I'm simply commenting on the heat loss mechanism differences between glass & flex panels.

If you have access to an IR thermal camera, look at the panels (cells) with the output wires shorted. You can immediately see which cells are failing and, sometimes, exactly where. If you examine those spots, you'll see a number of small cracks.

I've been to Arizon. I had a great time in Flagstaff. In Phoenix, even the rocks were burnt so no way a solar panel holds up! LOL

 

[svetz]

So are these the only two dream projects for lightweight flexible solar panels? What about a fiber carbon vacuum blimp? If you had infinite time and money, what would you build with them?

 

[svetz]

Way to go Will!

 

[sunnydaze]

While posting in @Kathymel's thread Upgrading system thread I advised her not to use Flexible panels.

But I had to eat my words and wanted to repost here to make it more visible ... take a look at the current Renogy warranty (click the link, scroll down, then click the Specification tab) for their flexible panels, it sure looks like the technology has come of age:

I wouldn't trust in a 25day warranty from Renogy much less a 25yr.

I recently made a purchase thru them, they printed a shipping label then did not send anything out.. After two week I tried to contact them, that when I found out not all is well in Renogy land.

Their “support” lines go to a phone tree that said I was #16 and it hangs up after 1hr.

I finally got one response that said that order was shipped and Fedex did not scan it yet. This was a complete lie.. Fedex did not receive it yet, they scan shipments when they pick them up not 2 weeks latter.

So after some looking online I found out that my experience was like many others. Not able to contact support, lies about orders, missing parts, refusal to send return labels, refual to cancel orders, etc..

These are a couple of threads from their own forum.

Terrible Customer Service/Phone Support/Web Support/Communication/Shipping Accuracy

DO NOT PURCHASE FROM RENOGY UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT THEY CAN PROVE TO BE TRUSTWORTHY I have not been this frustrated with a company in quite some time. I have tried repeatedly to communicate through all means available to no avail, and the excuse of transitioning phone systems is total BS. My...

support.renogy.com

Bitterly, bitterly disappointed

I am so frustrated with this company. The charge controller they sent me is not working. It won't even turn on when hooked to the batteries. I called on Monday 6 July and was on hold for an hour and 3 minutes before I spoke with a human. She created a ticket and sent me over to tech support...

support.renogy.com

Cannot Contact Support

I have been trying to get in touch with Renogy Customer Service for 2 days. The phone message says they are experiencing issues...to call back tomorrow. Anyone been able to get in touch with support?

support.renogy.com

I am sure their is a lot more unhappy people not showing because they deleted my post. Renogy seems like a company on their way out looking to collect as much as they can before playing the bankrupt card.

 

[bmh]

Seriously? I wonder if the warranty excludes for misuse from improper ventilation? Glued down to a hot metal surface with no air passage under it... it could get very hot.

somebody needs to dig into the warranty wording.

What about putting corrugated plastic beneath flexible panels? That would separate and probably protect flexible panels from heat. Do you think this is correct?

 

[jwelter99]

BattleBorn was supposed to launch a series of Flexi solar panels -- those YouTube promoters The Mortons did a install with them. Not heard anything since so suspect they ran into issues?

 

[HRTKD]

What about putting corrugated plastic beneath flexible panels? That would separate and probably protect flexible panels from heat. Do you think this is correct?

My Mission Solar 320 watt solar panels have a Maximum Operating Temperature Range of 85°C (185°F). Normal operating temperature is 46° C (115° F). These are not flexible panels. I'm throwing out those temperatures as a basis for discussion.

Coroplast has a normal temperature performance range of -17° F to 160° F, with a melting point of 162° C (324° F).

Will the solar panel temperatures get high enough to melt Coroplast? Probably not, but it could weaken it a bit, but we're talking Death Valley for a lot of hours. There are a lot of flexible panels being installed on top of Coroplast. I would give that a try, anything to prevent so much heat directly on the RV's EPDM. If the panels aren't mounted perfectly horizontal, I would expect the hot air to move up, providing some cooling of the back side of the panel.

I've used Coroplast on my RV for a few things and have melted it with a heat gun to get it to bend. A 1500 watt heat gun will melt Coroplast easily.

 

[Dzl]

BattleBorn was supposed to launch a series of Flexi solar panels -- those YouTube promoters The Mortons did a install with them. Not heard anything since so suspect they ran into issues?

I believe the flexible panels BB sells are just panels they are reselling. I'm blanking on the name of the manufacturer, I think its a California based company, Merlin Solar(?) possibly. They don't sell direct to consumers from what I recall, I believe they may sell through a few businesses (possibly rebranded) and sell to installers / builders. From what I recall they have a pretty solid reputation for flexible panels. It looks like BB does not sell the panels other than as part of a kit. Try AZ wind and sun.

 

[HRTKD]

@bojan, Coroplast comes in different thicknesses. What you get on the shelf at Home Depot is average size. I ordered a set of five sheets from HD so I could get the thicker stuff. I think the thicker stuff was stronger, which was what I was looking for. For your purposes, thicker means more ventilation.

 

[JoeHam]

Not cheap at $4/ watt.

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