diy solar

diy solar

Good news, hopefully - US waives tariffs on Vietnam solar panels

crossy

crossy

Solar Addict
Joined
Apr 27, 2021
Messages
747
Location
Thailand, just north of Bangkok.
Not sure if this has been widely reported (I'm not in the US).

e.vnexpress.net

US waives tariffs on Vietnam solar panels - VnExpress International

Joe Biden has waived tariffs on solar panels exported from Vietnam and three other Southeast Asian countries for two years amid rising demand for renewable energy in the U.S.
e.vnexpress.net e.vnexpress.net

Joe Biden has waived tariffs on solar panels exported from Vietnam and three other Southeast Asian countries for two years amid rising demand for renewable energy in the U.S.

The tariff exemption will also apply to panels from Cambodia, Malaysia and Thailand and serve as a "bridge" while U.S. manufacturing ramps up, the White House stated Monday.


1654650151303.png
 
I have lion energy panels whose box says assembled in Vietnam form German cells.

rhino said:
Really curious who in the US is actually ramping up.
Click to expand...
We tried this before and as soon as the subsidies ended, the companies went out of business. This plant received $58 million in subsidies and closed its doors.

www.masslive.com

After accepting $58 million in Massachusetts subsidies, Evergreen Solar to close Devens plant

The solar panel manufacturing plant cited the low cost of manufacturing in China as the primary reason for closing.
www.masslive.com www.masslive.com

I would like to hear a successful example of the government providing an industry subsidies where the private sector eventually succeeded on their own and did not need government subsidies. The private sector is pretty smart and puts money towards successful ventures, and not towards unsuccessful, as I feel is shown by the Massachusetts plant shutting down. I’m sure something would still be there today had the government not pulled the plug on the subsidies, but I doubt it would be profitable yet.
 
US solar manufacturing is a joke. The industry has commoditized since all panels are stuck between 19-21% efficiencies. Now it’s just a race to the bottom to see who can provide the lowest cost per watt.
 
There is still room for innovation in the solar market. I would love to be able to get glass-glass frameless panels for residential; close to the ocean and corrosion will destroy my panels in less than 15 years.
 
I actually saw Solyndra cells being used on a roof for a pilot project. It was pretty clear nobody there understood physics or trigonometry.
 
crossy said:
Ouch!

$535 million down the drain.
Click to expand...
Pretty much caused by the Chinese declaring war on the industry and dumping a ton of subsidized panels on the market. There is absolutely no more Mr. Nice Guy left in either of the parties when dealing with China. I have no doubts they will tariff the hell out of China if they try this again. That two year suspension was just a warning shot to let them know that gaming the system will be met with harsh penalties.
 
Even without access to the US market China can't make panels fast enough and export prices are climbing (up 30% from the low last year - I should have bought more panels then).

Of course the factories in Vietnam etc. are owned by, guess who!

As soon as the zero tariff panels start arriving in the US I'd be buying them, it's only a matter of time before they get imported from China into <insert Far East country>, land borders over here are "rather porous" (OK wide open and border guards can be readily persuaded to look the other way), re-badged and exported as "local manufacture" and the US door gets slammed.

I'm not sure the west can compete even without the Chinese actually dumping :(
 
One article I read had CEO of one company asking for there to be a level playing field. He stated the only source for solar frame stock was China and had to import with 25+% tariff, yet fully-assembled panels could be imported at far less tariff, if any. Basically, the way the tariff was structured, it penalized US manufacture with components from overseas vs importing the fully-assembled product.

The folks from Midnite Solar spoke of the same thing.

It's very likely we cannot compete against the Chinese. Look at the extra costs and regulations we incur to install solar on our homes. Do you think a person in China or Europe has to go through the same hoops? Those hoops cost time, money, and effort. Those hoops raise the cost of manufacture in the US making some industries unfeasible. No, I'm not some libertarian kook who wants no regulations, but we are definitely making things tougher for ourselves.
 
turbo6bar said:
Look at the extra costs and regulations we incur to install solar on our homes.
Click to expand...
Doesn't help that so many places in the US can't even find workers so they either have reduced hours or less days open or both.
 
Actually, the U.S. can manufacture products competitively and sell them overseas.
They just charge an obscene markup in the US and sell for a fair price elsewhere.
Then they get all huffy if someone claims to represent an overseas buyer, buys low and sells high inside the U.S.
Hey! I was supposed to be the one making that profit!

www.freightwaves.com

Baby formula export scheme worth $200M lands Florida trio in prison

A Florida trio was recently sentenced to federal prison for their roles in a $200 million infant formula fraud scheme.
www.freightwaves.com www.freightwaves.com

Works for baby food, works for pharmaceuticals, works for cell-phone equipment & service.

Everything is priced high for U.S. consumers, and so long as cheap imports aren't allowed, the country runs just fine with local manufacturing of everything.
But companies had to get greedy; there's more profit to be had with overseas labor, overseas resources, overseas environmental "laws".
 
turbo6bar said:
It's very likely we cannot compete against the Chinese. Look at the extra costs and regulations we incur to install solar on our homes. Do you think a person in China or Europe has to go through the same hoops? Those hoops cost time, money, and effort. Those hoops raise the cost of manufacture in the US making some industries unfeasible. No, I'm not some libertarian kook who wants no regulations, but we are definitely making things tougher for ourselves.
Click to expand...
If the products were inherently safer, I'd be all for loosening regulations and NEC code. But the vast majority of DIY solar stuff is imported Chinese goods purchased from Amazon and it's a crapshoot on whether it will burn your house down.

Questionable if that stuff should even be sold. I mean you can buy a "grid-tie inverter" straight from China on Amazon and connect it with a suicide plug into your home's wiring system.
 
It’s not that we can’t compete against the Chinese, we choose not to.

In America we do press into service prisoners for different jobs. Locally, I see them cleaning the roads and working if food banks. Perhaps with that labor diverted to Enterprise, this cheap labor would be just what’s needed. China does this very successfully owning the market in many things because of ingenuity like this.

Other successful socialist/communist countries will press you into service on your free time for community service projects. That labor diverted for Enterprise could be a good source of cheap labor. That way after your normal 40 to 80 hour work week, you can still give back to society. North Korea frequently does this.

Actually am quite glad I live in America where we choose not to compete that way.
 
turbo6bar said:
It's very likely we cannot compete against the Chinese. Look at the extra costs and regulations we incur to install solar on our homes. Do you think a person in China or Europe has to go through the same hoops? Those hoops cost time, money, and effort. Those hoops raise the cost of manufacture in the US making some industries unfeasible. No, I'm not some libertarian kook who wants no regulations, but we are definitely making things tougher for ourselves.
Click to expand...
Yes people in Europe go through the same hoops and sometimes they are a lot worst.
People in China and the Chinese government don't give a Frak about what happens. The government does not care if your house burns down, but if you happen to survive and make up noise about a well known companies product causing the fire they will throw you in jail for trying to cause civil unrest. I am fine thank you. I don't want no cheap unregulated crap in my house that may start to burn at 4am when I am in a deep sleep.
 
Cyanlite said:
If the products were inherently safer, I'd be all for loosening regulations and NEC code. But the vast majority of DIY solar stuff is imported Chinese goods purchased from Amazon and it's a crapshoot on whether it will burn your house down.

Questionable if that stuff should even be sold. I mean you can buy a "grid-tie inverter" straight from China on Amazon and connect it with a suicide plug into your home's wiring system.
Click to expand...

We have no problem buying lithium iron phosphate cells from China. We have no problem buying assembled lithium iron phosphate server rack batteries from China, and there is no guarantee those won't burn our house down. Many have no problem using cheap Chinese BMS. And even if we aren't using major components that are manufactured in China, it's likely we're using raw components made in China. We couldn't manufacture many of those items here, because we don't exploit the labor to the degree its done in China and we have far more stringent environmental and regulations. It is what it is.

I think in the end it comes down to managing risk.
 
robby said:
Yes people in Europe go through the same hoops and sometimes they are a lot worst.
People in China and the Chinese government don't give a Frak about what happens. The government does not care if your house burns down, but if you happen to survive and make up noise about a well known companies product causing the fire they will throw you in jail for trying to cause civil unrest. I am fine thank you. I don't want no cheap unregulated crap in my house that may start to burn at 4am when I am in a deep sleep.
Click to expand...

I have only read about a few European solar installs and my sense is they seem to be easier to accomplish. What aspect of solar installs are a lot worse in Europe?

And, again, I'm not referring to cheap unregulated Chinese solar crap. I'm thinking more along the lines of Rapid Shutdown Requirements in NEC2020. DIY batteries not able to pass latest NEC code. Give folks some freedom and responsibility. The Chinese are living loose with their economy, regulations, and monetary policy. It wouldn't hurt for us to let loose and take some risk. You, perhaps think our regulations are fine and I respect that, but give others the chance to find a comfortable position on risk vs reward.
 
chrisski said:
Actually am quite glad I live in America where we choose not to compete that way.
Click to expand...

But most if not all of us here will continue to support a nation that chooses to compete that way... If China is competing in the "wrong" way, we shouldn't buy their solar components, their electronics, and all other goods that come across the ocean. Otherwise, it's silly to say, in America we won't compete that way, and then go back to Amazon or any other fine American retailer and click "Buy it Now" on those products subsidized by exploiting humans...

The Chinese may very well be beating us at our game. They make be taking capitalism to the Nth degree.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Bifacial Tax Exemption on Chinese panels.
Replies
6
Views
463
newbostonconst
N
Back
Top