Grid-Tie solar power ethics

[byteharmony]

I just realized my utility company, WE Energies has the following solar program:

$0.05 / kWh - Solar purchase
$0.08 / kWh - off peak cost 7 PM - 7 AM
$0.18 / kWh - on peak cost 7 AM - 7 PM

Here's the thing that shocked me. They want me to wire all my solar power to them through a separate meter before it can flow in through a usage meter when I use it.

I am getting a Sol Ark 15k, so that is not possible, I'll be requesting a bidirectional meter.

BUT if I did a sunny boy or enphase I think I would need to produce 3.6x every amp I use in order to have we energies to be gird tied.

Think about it.

I make 3.6 Amps = $0.18 worth of power based on solar rates
I use 3.6 Amps during the day, they charge me: $0.648

Just putting all that power on the grid tie generator input of the sol ark 15k and making your utility switch you to a bi-directional meter would improve your finances 3.6x when you are drawing your own power. Add a battery and you can bank that power for when you need it and only draw at night.

 

[Tecnodave]

My local power company is much worse than that which is exactly why I am an off gridder, I do have a 120 volt 30 amp service installed in the 1930’ s and the POCO service is capable of 240 volt 200 amp service but I will not upgrade I must keep that service active to keep a residency permit so I burn $5.00 / month for yard lights and all my household and shop use is off grid solar with no capability of feeding the grid, no permits, no building inspectors,

I see no point in selling power for 1/4 of what it costs to replace

 

[byteharmony]

My local power company is much worse than that which is exactly why I am an off gridder, I do have a 120 volt 30 amp service installed in the 1930’ s and the POCO service is capable of 240 volt 200 amp service but I will not upgrade I must keep that service active to keep a residency permit so I burn $5.00 / month for yard lights and all my household and shop use is off grid solar with no capability of feeding the grid, no permits, no building inspectors,

I see no point in selling power for 1/4 of what it costs to replace

thx for sharing this Dave, please everyone share. I want to know what is happening in our world!

 

[KellyDood]

Blew my mind when I first saw grid-tie means you have no power in an outage- My primary reason for considering solar! ?

I'd avoid any contact with power companies.

 

[Tecnodave]

In my county off grid solar is not legal if you have grid available, My house was built long before the county building department existed, so no building permit, no county records at all....I do not want them regulating me to death $$$$$ so I bought a dead semi trailer and put my entire solar system on the trailer....It has state “permanent trailer license” which is $10/5 years......its a trailer....not a building.....not regulated by the building department....no permit required!
8’ X 53’ trailer with a overlapping array on top...12 X 60 feet.....Its a sunshade...LOL

 

[byteharmony]

I don't know how to describe how I feel right now.

As I learn more about this I think, I pay fees for electric power AND fees for GAS. What if I just ran a natural gas generator:

How Much Does It Cost To Run A Generator On Natural Gas? (Calculator)

During a power outage, a natural gas generator is your best friend. Without access to electricity from the grid, we have to burn natural gas to generate electricity. We looked into how much does it cost to run a generator on natural gas. The running cost of a generator depends on 3 primary...

learnmetrics.com

Cost per kWh described is $0.08

What does a generator cost?

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200665207_200665207

30 AMPS of 240v split phase power (just what my sol ark needs).

OMG, should I literally stop filling out all these insane grid tie application forms right now and just buy a generator?? That's $

Seriously, i want to finish the forms, get the data on how the $ works. Then with the savings buy battery after battery until I am able to pull the safety switch on my grid tie. Once I can go off grid for at least 2 days I think I'll pull the trigger on the generator. Then pull the trigger on killing my power company.

 

[byteharmony]

In my county off grid solar is not legal if you have grid available, My house was built long before the county building department existed, so no building permit, no county records at all....I do not want them regulating me to death $$$$$ so I bought a dead semi trailer and put my entire solar system on the trailer....It has state “permanent trailer license” which is $10/5 years......its a trailer....not a building.....not regulated by the building department....no permit required!
8’ X 53’ trailer with a overlapping array on top...12 X 60 feet.....Its a sunshade...LOL

That is the coolest thing I've ever heard. You also have no problems finding places to store stuff!!

 

[byteharmony]

In my county off grid solar is not legal if you have grid available, My house was built long before the county building department existed, so no building permit, no county records at all....I do not want them regulating me to death $$$$$ so I bought a dead semi trailer and put my entire solar system on the trailer....It has state “permanent trailer license” which is $10/5 years......its a trailer....not a building.....not regulated by the building department....no permit required!
8’ X 53’ trailer with a overlapping array on top...12 X 60 feet.....Its a sunshade...LOL

How did you mount them?

My brain instantly said giant unistrut (20 feet) on a hinge on one side of the trailer. Then the otherside has a unistrut with adjustable height mounting to allow you to change the angle a few times a year.

 

[Pendrak]

I just realized my utility company, WE Energies has the following solar program:

$0.05 / kWh - Solar purchase
$0.08 / kWh - off peak cost 7 PM - 7 AM
$0.18 / kWh - on peak cost 7 AM - 7 PM

Here's the thing that shocked me. They want me to wire all my solar power to them through a separate meter before it can flow in through a usage meter when I use it.

I am getting a Sol Ark 15k, so that is not possible, I'll be requesting a bidirectional meter.

BUT if I did a sunny boy or enphase I think I would need to produce 3.6x every amp I use in order to have we energies to be gird tied.

Think about it.

I make 3.6 Amps = $0.18 worth of power based on solar rates
I use 3.6 Amps during the day, they charge me: $0.648

Just putting all that power on the grid tie generator input of the sol ark 15k and making your utility switch you to a bi-directional meter would improve your finances 3.6x when you are drawing your own power. Add a battery and you can bank that power for when you need it and only draw at night.

Remember they are consuming your equipment too.

 

[Mattb4]

If I am to understand they are going to meter your total solar production and pay you for it at wholesale rates but also meter your loads and charge you normal retail? That would be a bit much. No incentive to be grid tied if that was the case.

 

[Pendrak]

In Spain the company get your solar almost free, they put a cap soo installing too much panels don't pay more money, they rob you and use your equipment, when it die because is working hard all day, it short the durability.

 

[Mike 134]

Illinois has the same rate either selling or buying KWH.

 

[MurphyGuy]

In my county off grid solar is not legal if you have grid available, My house was built long before the county building department existed, so no building permit, no county records at all....I do not want them regulating me to death $$$$$ so I bought a dead semi trailer and put my entire solar system on the trailer....It has state “permanent trailer license” which is $10/5 years......its a trailer....not a building.....not regulated by the building department....no permit required!
8’ X 53’ trailer with a overlapping array on top...12 X 60 feet.....Its a sunshade...LOL

What county is this? are you suggesting solar powered calculators are illegal there? Solar battery chargers? Solar fence chargers for farms?

Doesn't make sense.

 

[Pendrak]

What county is this? are you suggesting solar powered calculators are illegal there? Solar battery chargers? Solar fence chargers for farms?

Doesn't make sense.

This happen in lot of places on the world, corruption from the grid company and the local authorities.

 

[Tecnodave]

How did you mount them?

My brain instantly said giant unistrut (20 feet) on a hinge on one side of the trailer. Then the otherside has a unistrut with adjustable height mounting to allow you to change the angle a few times a year.

I did use unistrut but there are 3 racks as one that long would be a bit difficult to set angles . There are two vertical unistrut rails for each array, mounting Ironridge rail segments, electrical conduit with ends smashed flat drilled and bolted for cross braces.

< edit...the trailer is a 53 footer>

 

[Tecnodave]

What county is this? are you suggesting solar powered calculators are illegal there? Solar battery chargers? Solar fence chargers for farms?

Doesn't make sense.

They would like to regulate everything.....lol next we will have timers on toilets

I thought we were discussing off grid dwellings

 

[raurre]

Here in Mississippi they have a very similar billing arrangement. It is hard to blame them for only wanting to pay the rate they can purchase the power that wholesale from TVA. They have a massive investment in the grid and its maintenance. I built my system with batteries so I could get the full benefit of its output.

 

[Rednecktek]

They would like to regulate everything.....lol next we will have timers on toilets

Don't laugh, they're wanting to put meters on my well at my cabin and charge me for the water from my own well.

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

In my county off grid solar is not legal if you have grid available, My house was built long before the county building department existed, so no building permit, no county records at all....I do not want them regulating me to death $$$$$ so I bought a dead semi trailer and put my entire solar system on the trailer....It has state “permanent trailer license” which is $10/5 years......its a trailer....not a building.....not regulated by the building department....no permit required!
8’ X 53’ trailer with a overlapping array on top...12 X 60 feet.....Its a sunshade...LOL

Dave, are you in Florida ?

I know that FL has that policy in a lot of areas.

boB

 

[Rednecktek]

California is like that AFAIK.

 

[FightThePower]

Its the same crap here in CA. I put in enough inverter and battery that I can zero them out almost all day everyday and just sell them excess power everyday only and only pull from them when the weather is bad for days at a time which isnrare here in san diego county.

They end up owing me $

 

[Tecnodave]

Dave, are you in Florida ?

I know that FL has that policy in a lot of areas.

boB

no......Scuddy Crud, California....(Santa Cruz County) berg of Freedom, California....
Freedom in California ??? Surely you jest!

In some counties where there is high fire hazard Pacific Gas and Electric is installing solar on homes in high fire prone areas, Solar is far cheaper than upgrading miles of power lines due to wind driven fire events causing massive firestorms. I have heard that PG&E pays for the installation but i have not heard who pays for the electricity

 

[Tecnodave]

Don't laugh, they're wanting to put meters on my well at my cabin and charge me for the water from my own well.

The Pajaro Valley water district is already doing that here....Santa Cruz County