Having second thoughts about Ecoflow Delta due to NCM batteries

[solar_trees]

I was strongly considering purchasing an Ecoflow Delta, but I'm having second thoughts now due to the NCM battery chemistry. I'm mostly concerned about the safety of the NCM batteries, because I know LiFePO4 batteries are safer. I don't know if I'm just being paranoid because I know someone who had a battery fire burn down their house recently or if there actually is a fire risk with NCM batteries. Am I right to be concerned about a solar generator with NCM batteries? Are there any extra precautions I would need to take using an NCM generator vs a LiFePo4 generator?

 

[MrThisIsME]

I was strongly considering purchasing an Ecoflow Delta, but I'm having second thoughts now due to the NCM battery chemistry. I'm mostly concerned about the safety of the NCM batteries, because I know LiFePO4 batteries are safer. I don't know if I'm just being paranoid because I know someone who had a battery fire burn down their house recently or if there actually is a fire risk with NCM batteries. Am I right to be concerned about a solar generator with NCM batteries? Are there any extra precautions I would need to take using an NCM generator vs a LiFePo4 generator?

You see many Tesla batteries catch on fire?

 

[robby]

I don't know if I would feel comfortable running NCM batteries inside my house while I am sleeping.
It's a personal choice but on the bright side I have not heard of any Ecoflow Delta's going up in flames but the chemistry most certainly has a lot more potential than LiFePo4.

 

[robby]

You see many Tesla batteries catch on fire?

In person or in Videos?
There are several Tesla fires posted on YouTube.

 

[YardBeatles]

Just so we can be fair Kelly Blue Book conducted a study and found that:

• Electric vehicles: 25 fires per 100,000 sold
• Gas-powered cars: 1,530 fires per 100,000 sold

So Gas vehicles are 61.2 TIMES more likely to catch fire than an electric vehicles. The Tesla's just get more press and hate.

But, yes, the NCM is more prone to puncture fire's and thermal runaway than LiFePo4... and LiFePo4 is also much less hazardous and more environmentally friendly upon disposal. But, with a good BMS, thermal management, and protection from puncture, there about as safe as anything.

 

[DarrylG]

Maybe consider bumping up to the Ecoflow Delta Pro that has the LifePo4 batteries. I have my Delta Pro running 24/7 inside my living space. There are a few deals out now if you look.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Just so we can be fair Kelly Blue Book conducted a study and found that:

• Electric vehicles: 25 fires per 100,000 sold
• Gas-powered cars: 1,530 fires per 100,000 sold

So Gas vehicles are 61.2 TIMES more likely to catch fire than an electric vehicles. The Tesla's just get more press and hate.

But, yes, the NCM is more prone to puncture fire's and thermal runaway than LiFePo4... and LiFePo4 is also much less hazardous and more environmentally friendly upon disposal. But, with a good BMS, thermal management, and protection from puncture, there about as safe as anything.

I'd ask from what causes though? There's theoretically more ways for a gas powered car to catch fire, but many will not go out of control as fast as a lithium (non iron) battery fire, and many fires are forward of the firewall, not under your butt.

That being said, I don't give my cell phone in my pocket a second thought, even though as we've seen before the batteries in cell phones can blow up quite spectacularly as well, and that wouldn't feel good.

 

[solar_trees]

Maybe consider bumping up to the Ecoflow Delta Pro that has the LifePo4 batteries. I have my Delta Pro running 24/7 inside my living space. There are a few deals out now if you look.

The Ecoflow Delta Pro is out of my price range for now. For alternatives, I've been looking at the Bluetti AC200P, and the Bluetti AC200Max. The AC200P looks nice, except that the minimum input voltage is very high and I would have to spend more on panels in order to use it. So I think I like the AC200Max better. If I'm going to spend extra money, I'd much rather put it towards a better unit, like the AC200Max, than towards an extra panel.

 

[Minimoose]

I was strongly considering purchasing an Ecoflow Delta, but I'm having second thoughts now due to the NCM battery chemistry. I'm mostly concerned about the safety of the NCM batteries, because I know LiFePO4 batteries are safer. I don't know if I'm just being paranoid because I know someone who had a battery fire burn down their house recently or if there actually is a fire risk with NCM batteries. Am I right to be concerned about a solar generator with NCM batteries? Are there any extra precautions I would need to take using an NCM generator vs a LiFePo4 generator?

I bought a Delta 1300 for both of my kids. I liked them so much I bought 2 refurbished units for myself. They have tons of safety features built in. I like the fast charging with ac. I know I'll lose 20% capacity after several years, but I'm okay with that. I also bought an AC200P Bluetti, but haven't tested it much yet. I liked the design and the cycle life of the battery. My first Delta 1300 ran my coffee pot and toaster for breakfast during a power outage. Then it ran my fridge all day. After 12 hours I still had 66% battery left. Didn't have to worry about starting my generator.

 

[deeuubee]

My understanding is the new Delta 2 coming out this month has LiFePo4 batteries.
Maybe wait for that.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Just so we can be fair Kelly Blue Book conducted a study and found that:

• Electric vehicles: 25 fires per 100,000 sold
• Gas-powered cars: 1,530 fires per 100,000 sold

So Gas vehicles are 61.2 TIMES more likely to catch fire than an electric vehicles. The Tesla's just get more press and hate.

But, yes, the NCM is more prone to puncture fire's and thermal runaway than LiFePo4... and LiFePo4 is also much less hazardous and more environmentally friendly upon disposal. But, with a good BMS, thermal management, and protection from puncture, there about as safe as anything.

wonderful strawman Kelley blue book created. there is a huge difference between an idiot driving a car that has been damaged in any of a variety of ways from wrecks to piss poor maintenance that catch's fire while driving and a Tesla or rivian, or bolt, or volt that is sitting still in your garage and spontaneously catches fire.

How many ICE vehicle catch fire in your parking spot after having been shut down for more than 15 to 20 minutes. the only ones i have ever heard of are from idiot teenagers running power cords for amps in weird ways that short and cause fires.

How many EV's have caught fire while sitting in the parking space. (I am not even talking while charging, thats another category).

 

[solar_trees]

My understanding is the new Delta 2 coming out this month has LiFePo4 batteries.
Maybe wait for that.

I was not aware of that, but that looks like a really great system. Ultimately, I decided to go with the Bluetti EB3A, because I needed a UPS, and I was able to find a really cheap 60w portable solar panel, so my total investment was only $340. I also realized that I don't actually need a portable generator with 1800W output. I had one piece of outdoor equipment that needs 1800W, but I can just use a long extension cord for it (less fun, but more practical). Long-term, I think I want to build a larger off grid system, so I'll be looking at something in the range of an AC300.

 

[LShockNaw]

People have been running into problems using the UPS function on the EB3A.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Cease this NMC hate!

Tesla, until their recent shift to LFP, has almost exclusively used NCA chemistry - the lightest, most power dense and... dangerous. These are the ones that spontaneously combust.

NMC has similar cycle performance to LFP and is notably safer than NCA, but not as safe as LFP.

"NMC" is usually a blend of LMO and NMC - both of which are "safer" than NCA.

NMC is luscious.

NMC is not the reason you don't buy an EcoFlow Delta. You don't buy one because they're overpriced and you can DIY sometime better/cheaper.

 

[sinewavepro]

It's not just the NMC batteries to be concerned about. EcoFlow solar generators as well as just about every brand of solar generator on the market that uses a high frequency, transformerless inverter, can set appliances or your EV on fire during a catastrophic failure of the MOSFETs in the inverter's H-Bridge circuit which can send high amperage, high voltage DC current through the AC transformers in your appliances, burning up their primary windings and potentially starting a fire.

 

[Minimoose]

It's not just the NMC batteries to be concerned about. EcoFlow solar generators as well as just about every brand of solar generator on the market that uses a high frequency, transformerless inverter, can set appliances or your EV on fire during a catastrophic failure of the MOSFETs in the inverter's H-Bridge circuit which can send high amperage, high voltage DC current through the AC transformers in your appliances, burning up their primary windings and potentially starting a fire.

Notice that they have the comments turned off on that video! The name brand ones are tested and designed for shut down upon failure. Sure they get hot under heavy load. The only thing that happens is the cooling system kicks up and the battery depletes faster. I have a couple of origional Ecoflows and a Bluetti and they were tested hard before I used them. When we have a power outage they have done a fantastic job running my essentials and entertainment. A lot of the inverters that people are powering their homes with are stacked high frequency also....just not portable.
I don't run them unless I'm there..just like I would my gas generators.

 

[Kenny_]

Both of my Ecoflow systems purchased in the last 6 months or so have LiFePo batteries. They have been working fine.
No more concerned about them (Delta Pro and River 2) than about the Rack-Mount Sungold batteries I'm about to begin using.

 

[Kenny_]

NMC is not the reason you don't buy an EcoFlow Delta. You don't buy one because they're overpriced and you can DIY sometime better/cheaper.

This is the primary lesson I've learned so far in my Solar Exploits.....I thought the Ecoflow would be best for portability and scalability in case I sell the house and move...but really a properly designed DIY system is better as far as scalability (and cost) as well as portability.