diy solar

diy solar

Ideas / products for all-in-one system?

brainwashed

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Oct 8, 2023
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Hi all, new here.

I've been studying the market a bit but can't seem to find out if someone else did this before, for a reasonable price.

I'm looking for a small-ish solar system, let's say 1kW of installed power, 2kW inverter, one-phase, grid-tied, hybrid. The main purpose is to generate what I usually use, a background consumption of 150-250W, feed some of it into some batteries and use it at night and for backup. Backup means short interruptions of less than 3 seconds. When these happen, I don't usually draw a lot of power and high-power consumers are usually off.

My house connection is rated to 6.5kVA but my total consumption never exceeds 5kW. I have a DIY energy monitor connected through MQTT to Home Assistant.

I think legally (in EU) you can backfeed up to 800W into the grid, without having to apply for a cogeneration permit.

The first reason for a small system is that electricity is currently pretty cheap (paying about 0.16c) and will take a long time for a larger system to pay for itself, at least 8 years when looking at something like 5kW. Second reason is that there are subsidy plans available and might use those to install a second (larger) solar system. Third reason is that many people in my area are installing solar and the grid is quite limited in how much it can handle. Not to mention they might put pressure to bring the electricity prices lower or just cause your backfeeding to be remotely disabled when there is a lot of generation.

Back on question: what kind of (cheap) hybrid inverters can work off-grid in case of a blackout? How would the connection to the main house wiring be done, I assume there is some sort of disjunctor that can disconnect the house while the grid power is down, start the off-grid mode on the inverter and do the reverse when the grid power is back up. My search efforts have not yielded any DIY solution yet.

It's hard for me to separate loads into backup-priority ones and disposable ones (e.g. oven, garden pump), as they are all over the place and in a lot of circuits (about 12). A rewiring of the house is currently out of the question as everything is inside brick walls and the existing conduits cannot be easily refitted with additional wires.
 
Interesting idea

If price is the biggest factor , I would FORGET grid tie altogether , I don't see any advantage for you in a grid tie inverter


I would get a cheap "AIO" (all in one) like MPP solar or 'edecona' , they can do grid pass through , but cannot export power. They are designed to work fully off grid as required

Set up would go:

Grid > house consumer unit (breaker panel) > AIO with solar attached > critical load panel


I'd set the AIO in 'SUB' power priority order (solar, utility, battery)


That would give you you desired outcome, solar would supply loads first if available, then mains/utility power , finally battery would kick in if the other two aren't available



Any load you want to be covered by solar would have to be wired in AFTER the AIO , to the critical load panel
 
My house connection is rated to 6.5kVA but my total consumption never exceeds 5kW

If you wish to cover the whole house loads , even just in 'pass through' mode , your inverter will HAVE to be of an adequate size


For this model , you would need to meet the mppt start up voltage, minimum 120v PV
 
Agree with above.
You don't need a hybrid, if you don't want to export to the grid. A low cost off grid AIO, will do everything you want.
The simplest option would be to go ahead and get a 5k unit. And connect it directly at your consumer unit.
So that you don't have to do a bunch of rewiring.
 
Thank you everyone for the replies.

Regarding the ebay unit, are there any numbers on idle wattage? Or efficiency? I don't think these units do clean passthrough but rather they do a double-conversion. Thinking that Growatt units sip about 70W when idle which can eat all the savings during the winter.

I cannot separate critical loads from non-critical ones since the wiring is kind of messed up. I have an RCD for the living room/kitchen which houses both the electrical cooking units and the living room things (TV, playstation, PC). There is no separate breaker for those unless I wire one in in the living room distribution panel, which could not help much since I would need to run some extra wires. Rewiring is not possible ATM.

The other loads in the house go through another RCD which is split for each area (one for each room, the sockets; one for lighting, one for backyard, one for front yard, etc). So I have two 32A RCD, one of which goes directly to a room and the other one is split further down into circuit breakers.

How does the ebay unit from above know when to take over in case of a blackout? I can squeeze one 1-DIN unit but not more in my panel box. I expect there is some kind of 2-DIN unit that turns off the grid in case the inverter takes over.

Thanks in advance.
 
Does the main grid input need to be rewired so that all loads go after the inverter? (I assume so).

Yes , not sure how it works where you are , but generally all electrical systems around the world work on similar principles...


You will have a point where the mains/utility electric enters your property , it normally goes to a big fuse, a main switch & your electric meter

From there the power travels through thick cables (called meter tails in the UK) straight to your consumer unit/breaker panel


If I was in your position , personally , THAT is where I would install my AIO inverter , on the 'meter tails' , after your electric meter , before the consumer unit . This way all house hold loads can be supplied by your AIO & circuits stay protect by your MCBs & RCDs


( goes without saying, check local laws, and always consult a qualified electrician ?)
 
Does the main grid input need to be rewired so that all loads go after the inverter? (I assume so).

Just to confirm , you do NOT have any existing grid tie solar set up installed already, correct?




This plan would not work with any existing grid-tie solar
 
Hi Sam,

No, I don't have any solar, yet. The meter is outside the house property and I have easy access to the wires entering the house. As I have seen around here, new PV installations usually do something similar, they hook in before the main house breaker and they install a separate breaker box outside the house. So, with some relatively easy rewiring, the installation can be later converted to solar grid-tie. I assume by wiring the output of the panels to the input of the old inverter.

EDIT: seeing that the minimum MPPT voltage is 120V for the 5kW unit, the voltage for an N-Type panel (Jinko) is around 32V, I would assume a minimum of 4 panels, so 1680W peak and 280W at low irradiance. The panels would be installed at a 12-degree angle. Hopefully my calculations are right. That would be 617€ for the inverter, 500€ for the panels, assume around 100€ for the mounting hardware, another 100€ for wiring and breaker box stuff. Hopefully my calculations are right.
The only problem is that the grid input is at the opposite end of the house where I would like the panels to be installed, so around 20-30m away.

EDIT2: costing a 3kWh battery for 600E it adds up to 1700E, not including work. According to my sheet, the system pays for itself in 5.5 years. However, by that point, the battery would might need to be replaced. Talking about a DIY 18650 battery that a guy around my area builds, with BMS and frame and everything.
 
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seeing that the minimum MPPT voltage is 120V for the 5kW unit,

There are other models with lower mppt started ups , as low as 60v


the voltage for an N-Type panel (Jinko) is around 32V,

Yea pretty much correct , but you also need to account for voltage changes from temperature , PV voltage goes up in the cold, down in the heat . If it's 30c+ outside you are going to see a significant drop in panel voltage output

This is why we normally leave a good bit of clear blue water above the mppt start up .

Eg. For 120v start up I would go for at least 150v~ of PV voltage
 
That would be 617€ for the inverter, 500€ for the panels, assume around 100€ for the mounting hardware, another 100€ for wiring and breaker box stuff. Hopefully my calculations are right.
The only problem is that the grid input is at the opposite end of the house where I would like the panels to be installed, so around 20-30m away.

You shouldn't need a new breaker box

AIO inverter needs to be inline behind your loads , so it can supply them .

These inverters have an 'ac in' and an 'ac out'

'ac in' should be connected to the mains

'ac out' should be connected to your home consumer unit


System would go:

Mains > meter > AIO > consumer unit > house loads
 
I'm going to offer a different suggestion.


They make these that you can install right next to your main panel. move your "critical loads" into it (no re-wiring the house needed, you're essentially just pigtailing the wires into the generator panel)

Then pick up one of the various solar generators out there. (If you aren't familiar, google "ecoflow delta", there are tons of options other than ecoflow), but this will steer you in the right direction.

95% of the time, you can have your solar generator plugged in, and power those loads. When the battery is low, you can switch the loads back to grid power until the batteries are good again.
 
Ah, thanks, so transfer switch is the name of that thingie.

@SamG340: Doesn't the inverter need also a breaker in front of it? I already have a main breaker inside the meter box, but obviously that's not owned by me, even though I have access to it (still).

EDIT: "CAUTION!! Before connecting to AC input power source, please install a separate AC breaker between theinverter and the AC input power source. This will ensure that the inverter can be safely disconnected during maintenance and fully protected from over-current. The recommended spec of AC breaker is 32A"

EDIT2: Cheaper to buy the unit from the EU-warehouse when ordering inside EU https://maximumsolar.online/product/6048mt-6kw-48v/ . Not sure about UK though.
 
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@SamG340: Doesn't the inverter need also a breaker in front of it? I already have a main breaker inside the meter box, but obviously that's not owned by me, even though I have access to it (still).

Your house breakers / RCDs are sufficient

You could add another breaker , you could add 10 ! But it's not necessary
 
I already have a main breaker inside the meter box, but obviously that's not owned by me, even though I have access to it (still).
As long as you have 1 safe way to isolate that is ok

(Putting local laws/regulations aside that is )
 
Going through the manual for the PIP-6048MT it advertises >98% efficiency when running in line mode and 55W idle consumption when in inverter mode. I assume that idle consumption does not happen when running in line mode, but without someone confirming this or asking the seller, I have no way of being sure.

There is a Home Assistant integration which is a really good feature for me https://github.com/ned-kelly/docker-voltronic-homeassistant - as a lot of the devices in my house are already integrated there.

Payoff period would be 6.5 years for a system with 4 panels, 5 years for a system with 6 panels, just in case someone is curious. Where I live there is currently a subsidized program that would allow a payoff period of 1 year (3-6kW installed, around 400E costs, the rest supported by gov), which I why I am considering a smaller panel count for this.
 
Just to finish this off in some way, the system is built and already deployed. I did end up putting a lot more protections, but not excessive: wire fuses from panels, into the discharger units then into the inverter, all in a DC breaker box. The AC breaker box has just two breakers to switch the line output from grid and the grid to line input. The outside breaker box has a combination of switches to allow me to bypass the inverter setup entirely, plus a big main breaker.

The solar panel count seems to be enough, I got 8.5kWh just a few days ago on a slightly cloudy day. I don't know how much it produces since whenever the battery is charged and the house has no load, everything just scales down. The inverter does not seem to feed to the grid, even if I enable it in the app menu. There is no such option on the unit's screen.

Standby usage is around 60W as advertised but it really lacks precision when measuring wattage. I'm getting a display of 0W for PV production even though the batteries are charging with 150W. It's also having trouble switching back and to battery depending on its voltage. It mostly looks like a software issue.

For all the other small issues like BMS and balancing I've started another thread.
 
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