Infinite Battery?

[Freep]

I hope I live to see this work

https://newatlas.com/energy/nano-diamond-self-charging-batteries-ndb

 

[Bob B]

Crazy .... I was just looking at that.

It could work out great .... or in a few years we might all be glowing in the dark ....LOL

 

[nosys70]

betavoltaic is a very old technology.
unfortunately you cannot get a lot of power without a lot of radiation.
in 70's some pacemaker were betavoltaic.
the stack of diamond layer+ radioctive layer is a very recent russian invention (2018)
We will probably never see big batteries on the market, since radioactive waste would be a real problem.
such device scaled to bigger size would produce 3.3 kilowatt-hours/kg.
If you work for the NASA ou can probably find one on the few devices sent to mars.

 

[Forbisher]

I hope I live to see this work

https://newatlas.com/energy/nano-diamond-self-charging-batteries-ndb

Sounds like bs unless they can show a working prototype that is independently tested

 

[MrNatural22]

And we think LiPos are dangerous....

 

[Sparky]

The company has completed a proof of concept, and is ready to begin building its commercial prototype once its labs reopen after COVID shutdown. A low-powered commercial version is expected to hit the market in less than two years, and the high powered version is projected for five years' time. NDB says it's well ahead of its competition with patents pending on its technology and manufacturing processes.

* Not a guarantee that it's not vaporware, not infeasible, or not too expensive to consider. Still, it may yet be tested by the market.

 

[Freep]

Sounds like bs unless they can show a working prototype that is independently tested

The physics is solid. It's quite clever and possible.

 

[Freep]

We will probably never see big batteries on the market, since radioactive waste would be a real problem.

Depleting the battery removes the waste through beta decay. It seems to me that you'd be able to put many cells in series to make a large bank, similar to what Tesla does now.

 

[nosys70]

actually you do not need to deplete the battery.
radioactive material is depleting itself (tritium for example loose half power every 12.5 year).
the problem is if you take tritium, after 12 years, you still get the same battery weight but only half the power.
and after 25 years, you get a brick that can hardly power the device it was designed for.
So you would say , it is easy, take a radioactive material that has a longer half-life.
plutonium 244 has a half-life of 80mio year.... and some other isotopes of plutonium have "only" 7000 years.
but then you get a problem, what do you do with a waste battery, if the radioctivity will sitll last 200 mio years ?
you need to build a pretty solid one to work for decade before it reach its half-life.
after that the battery would not offer a ratio energy/weight that is interesting.

 

[Freep]

actually you do not need to deplete the battery.
radioactive material is depleting itself (tritium for example loose half power every 12.5 year).
the problem is if you take tritium, after 12 years, you still get the same battery weight but only half the power.
and after 25 years, you get a brick that can hardly power the device it was designed for.
So you would say , it is easy, take a radioactive material that has a longer half-life.
plutonium 244 has a half-life of 80mio year.... and some other isotopes of plutonium have "only" 7000 years.
but then you get a problem, what do you do with a waste battery, if the radioctivity will sitll last 200 mio years ?
you need to build a pretty solid one to work for decade before it reach its half-life.
after that the battery would not offer a ratio energy/weight that is interesting.

Right. The battery is more like a power plant in a battery form factor. Since they're using carbon-14 encased in carbon-12 there's no real danger of radioactivity. When the carbon-14 decays it turns to nitrogen-14.

 

[Freep]

And we think LiPos are dangerous....
View attachment 20941

You already have carbon-14 in your body.

 

[gnubie]

A dose of reality.

 

[gnubie]

* Not a guarantee that it's not vaporware, not infeasible, or not too expensive to consider. Still, it may yet be tested by the market.

They are actually a thing, and have been for a long time. They aren't going to change the world, the power production is extremely low. Fine for running a pocket calculator, fine for running a LCD wristwatch, fine for any application where you need very very low power (microwatts) over an extended period. Running your car? Not in a million years.

 

[nosys70]

the fact is if you concentrate enough radioactivity to get usueful power, then you get a problem.
you body will not really care if the beta radiation come form carbon 14 or promethium or plutonium.
the only difference is one will last longer than the other.
so a 15KWh betavoltaic battery will contain a lot of radioactive material (probably several kilos).
that is probably ok to send on a planet where there is not even a living trace, but even there you could
find that debatable.
a let you imagine a radioactive tesla burning in an accident , releasing kilos of radioactive material in smoke in a middle of a city.

 

[gnubie]

A bog standard RTG would likely be a better proposition if you are sending it into space. I think the current problem with long life RTGs is getting hold of the plutonium* to build them so a big enough device might be an option there if the service life of the thing being put into space is long enough.

*you need decay to keep going for long enough to meet your minimum power requirement across the service life of the thing, no point in an RTG that dips to 50% power at 4 years if 50% power isn't enough to run the thing.

 

[nosys70]

betavoltaic produce also heat, so in deep space it could be useful for keeping circuits warm.
betavoltaic is nice because in theory the generator is set to fixed power by design, so you do not need
any type of regulation, or moving parts.
supposedly it just look like an inifinite battery.

 

[gnubie]

Oh no, I've just spent some time reading up on this latest OMG OMG OMG it's going to change the world. Naturally it involves the latest whiz-bang click bait special ingredient that will do everything, just better, including your homework.

Spoiler

graphene

Just about any time you see that word being tossed around with 'revolutionary', 'special' and 'world changing', don't bother reading any further.

RTGs also produce heat

 

[nosys70]

with investor you should not use revolutionary, it sounds too communist.
use "Innovation", " massive breakthrough ", "shifting paradigm" , "next level up", " leadership development ", " disruptive "
feel free to mix.