outboard1196
New Member
Yeah you shouldn't have voltage n-g
Inverter Ground/Neutral Bonding
- Thread starter JY99
- Start date
RV8R
Solar Enthusiast
Please report your findings @NordicNerd
If you find out this was the case, it is helpful to other members to expose the QC issue.
What a shitty Rabbit Hole if that is your case.
I wonder if these testers are helpful
?
Of course, you were probably “tripping” immediately if “H” wired to “G”.
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NordicNerd
New Member
I will definitely be posting the results of my investigation as it progresses.
Email sent to Giandel. Soooo many things make sense now after all the testing and going through the wiring all weekend.
RV8R
Solar Enthusiast
;
NordicNerd
New Member
Yep - good panel - lots of room to work in it. Once I get the inverter figured out I will rewire - take out the jumper and put the ground neutral bond back in (hopefully).
NordicNerd
New Member
UPDATE FROM GIANDEL (PS3000-KAR only):
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly,
This situation is normal, it is only induced voltage, and no practical significance. Our inverter generally only measures the voltage from the hot relative to the neutral relative.
The internal wiring of our inverter is correct, please don't worry.
We are certain that the quality of our products have no problem. Our factory has undergone strict manufacturing and testing, and finally produces good products.
We have been engaged in the inverters industry for 20 years, we clearly know that the quality of the inverters and customer service are very important.
We (Giandel) will always stand behind our products.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
So as a mechanical engineer, who started in electrical engineering, I am actually trying to figure this out and I am not sure I totally understand this yet. I think what concerns me is when I powered half my panel (one side) from the inverter terminal blocks with no ground neutral bond I had the following:
Powered side: 95 Volts
'Unpowered' Side: 25 Volts
The total is obviously 120 Volts. The ONLY way I would be getting 25 volts through the 'unpowered' side of my panel is through the ground to neutral connection. I was originally ok with no N-G bond as the inverter has overload and short circuit protection. But based on my testing, the Neutral wire is clearly acting as the hot and the ground may be acting as a neutral with no load (potential differential only).
So at this point I either complete the Giandel Recommendation from the image (attached) or ditch it and go to a UL1781 inverter - which I should just do anyway - this has been a good learning experience at least. The UL458 / ETL listed unless is not suitable for my needs at this point even though I am off grid.
@Will Prowse this discussion may make for a good video regarding differences between UL1781/UL458 and how they are designed. It also may be good to include some internal images and wiring of the lower end high frequency inverters to show what is actually happening. Thanks or all you do - and keep it up!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly,
This situation is normal, it is only induced voltage, and no practical significance. Our inverter generally only measures the voltage from the hot relative to the neutral relative.
The internal wiring of our inverter is correct, please don't worry.
We are certain that the quality of our products have no problem. Our factory has undergone strict manufacturing and testing, and finally produces good products.
We have been engaged in the inverters industry for 20 years, we clearly know that the quality of the inverters and customer service are very important.
We (Giandel) will always stand behind our products.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
So as a mechanical engineer, who started in electrical engineering, I am actually trying to figure this out and I am not sure I totally understand this yet. I think what concerns me is when I powered half my panel (one side) from the inverter terminal blocks with no ground neutral bond I had the following:
Powered side: 95 Volts
'Unpowered' Side: 25 Volts
The total is obviously 120 Volts. The ONLY way I would be getting 25 volts through the 'unpowered' side of my panel is through the ground to neutral connection. I was originally ok with no N-G bond as the inverter has overload and short circuit protection. But based on my testing, the Neutral wire is clearly acting as the hot and the ground may be acting as a neutral with no load (potential differential only).
So at this point I either complete the Giandel Recommendation from the image (attached) or ditch it and go to a UL1781 inverter - which I should just do anyway - this has been a good learning experience at least. The UL458 / ETL listed unless is not suitable for my needs at this point even though I am off grid.
@Will Prowse this discussion may make for a good video regarding differences between UL1781/UL458 and how they are designed. It also may be good to include some internal images and wiring of the lower end high frequency inverters to show what is actually happening. Thanks or all you do - and keep it up!
Attachments
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The image supplied and their explanation is all fine if they did not wire it up with reversed polarity. Yes it does happen in spite of their protestations. It is easy to check with a simple plugin polarity checker or with DMM. Yes the voltage when NG is not bonded is a odd quality less than full when checking the hot side to the ground. It can even be a small voltage when checking N to ground. It however should never be the full voltage when checking N to ground.
NordicNerd
New Member
I will update after this weekend - I have a polarity meter/tool. Also, 100% I had 120 Volt Neutral to Ground at the inverter outlets and terminal block: that is what concerned me. . . .
I am seriously considering ditching the Giandel inverter and go with a UL 1781 listed victron multiplus.
I am seriously considering ditching the Giandel inverter and go with a UL 1781 listed victron multiplus.
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NordicNerd
New Member
Of interest I just watched this video:
not the same inverter, but it appears the load and neutral are either mislabeled or reversed - take a look 1/2 way through and you can see the wiring to the ac outlets.
not the same inverter, but it appears the load and neutral are either mislabeled or reversed - take a look 1/2 way through and you can see the wiring to the ac outlets.
outboard1196
New Member
Check the voltage at the included plugs as well see if they are wired wrong too .
I'm not sure how the internal wiring is .
I'm not sure how the internal wiring is .
NordicNerd
New Member
I did test the plugs at the inverter plugs. It matched the panel wiring as follows:
N-Hot/Load: 120V
N-G: 120V
Hot/Load - G: 0 V
At this point I'm ready to call bullshit on Giandel - but I want to make sure and do a polarity test this weekend with a proper meter.
With a 3 prong tester and no NG bond this is what it should look like below. You will notice that the 2nd orange light is less bright than the middle light but there is no red light on. This is because the hot to ground is not as good as the hot to neutral is. Once bonded they equal out.
NordicNerd
New Member
thanks - i have a slightly different meter and will report back with pictures on Sunday evening / Monday morning.
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