Is gentle agitation of FLA a good idea to reduce sulfation?

[Vigilant24]

I've read about the benefits of high bulk charging amperage and of the bubbling during battery rebalancing as a way to stir the electrolyte in flooded lead acid batteries, combat stratification, and reduce sulfation.

If the physical motion of the electrolyte is beneficial, would periodic general rocking of an FLA be beneficial? I only have two of them, and it's not great hassle to do this every month or two. The batteries seem to hold up to movement in RVs and boats, so I doubt a little rocking would
be harmful.

I realize there's not much new int he world of flooded lead batteries, so maybe this has been considered and discarded.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Lt.Dan]

While I'm unsure about gentle agitation, I do know that the 2 leading causes of FLA death in cars, is Vibration and Heat.

I'm interested what other people have to add.

 

[Vigo]

So i think it's generally accepted that using the gas formation of the battery itself is the only pragmatic way to 'stir up' the electrolyte that doesn't massively complicate things.

But i also read that one of the enhancements made to EFB (enhanced flooded batteries) car batteries for cars with start-stop, is to build some features into the cell partition walls that encourage certain types of circulation based on the normal movement of the car.

Lead-acid car batteries do suffer from vibration, but they also go their entire lives with no true 'equalization' and i think the constant stirring of the electrolyte from the normal motions of the vehicle is one reason why that works.

 

[efficientPV]

I would think the plates are so close together with an insulator spacer that you would get no movement by rocking the battery. Only movement would be if you totally drained the battery.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

So i think it's generally accepted that using the gas formation of the battery itself is the only pragmatic way to 'stir up' the electrolyte that doesn't massively complicate things.

This.

 

[eleceng1979]

Sulfation and stratification are two completely separate things. You fix stratification with proper charging current, to stir due to bubbling. You fix sulfation with a separate high frequency charger, designed for such use. It is common in large LA banks to have a dedicated high frequency charger on full time, in addition to the main bulk inverter/charger. Imagine a battery tender 2-5A or so. Keeping good quality water in with proper levels also helps.

Sulfation will fall off and fall to the bottom. You don’t want to shake a battery. As lead paste plates wear, the dead lead falls down also. Shaking is bad as this debris build ups and eventually shorts the bottom of two plates. Industrial batteries (forklift) with thicker plates has more distance at the bottom to prevent this. All other batteries not so much. Shaking is bad, real bad, on used batteries, like blow up in your face kind of bad. All stationary battery failures are typically from the bottom edges of plates being bridged or ran dry.

 

[DIYrich]

I put a battery tender on my lead acid batteries. It says that it pulses to desulfite the battery, and keeps it charged.

 

[B.Babs]

I can sum it up this way.. Does not work on boats, sail or power, and they are "generally rocking". Throwing a disc. would be about the only outcome.. Fight sulfation by using a proper absorption voltage. You don't need high current unless they are AGM..

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Sulfation and stratification are two completely separate things. You fix stratification with proper charging current, to stir due to bubbling. You fix sulfation with a separate high frequency charger, designed for such use. It is common in large LA banks to have a dedicated high frequency charger on full time, in addition to the main bulk inverter/charger. Imagine a battery tender 2-5A or so. Keeping good quality water in with proper levels also helps.

Is there really definitive data that these high frequency devices really work? I have a few varieties - separate devices connected with a separate charger or chargers with the feature built in.

I've always gotten better results by running an actual equalization cycle.

Sulfation will fall off and fall to the bottom. You don’t want to shake a battery. As lead paste plates wear, the dead lead falls down also. Shaking is bad as this debris build ups and eventually shorts the bottom of two plates. Industrial batteries (forklift) with thicker plates has more distance at the bottom to prevent this. All other batteries not so much. Shaking is bad, real bad, on used batteries, like blow up in your face kind of bad. All stationary battery failures are typically from the bottom edges of plates being bridged or ran dry.

Good info. Any reason you posted it three times?

 

[eleceng1979]

it sounded better in my head I guess, my apologies for 3X

Research here.
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._of_lead-acid_battery_by_high_frequency_pulse

Obviously different companies offer different frequencies/amplitudes. I personally use high frequency tenders on all batts in equipment, motorcycle, vehicles, tractors. I personally have yet to change a battery. It will come, but hasn’t yet. I have lawn equipment with starting batteries that are over 18 years old, they are always tended or in operation.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

it sounded better in my head I guess, my apologies for 3X

No worries.

Research here.
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._of_lead-acid_battery_by_high_frequency_pulse

Unfortunately, that isn't conclusive in any way. It's a poorly designed experiment. They didn't fully charge the batteries, and not including specific gravity is inexcusable.
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._of_lead-acid_battery_by_high_frequency_pulse

Obviously different companies offer different frequencies/amplitudes. I personally use high frequency tenders on all batts in equipment, motorcycle, vehicles, tractors. I personally have yet to change a battery. It will come, but hasn’t yet. I have lawn equipment with starting batteries that are over 18 years old, they are always tended or in operation.

Pulsing or no, the best way to preserve a battery is to prevent the formation of sulfation in the first place. Keeping batteries fully charged and on float is a great way to get even crappy batteries to last a long long time.

 

[Hank Waconda]

For large deep cycle batteries I would suggest equalizing every 3 months.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

For large deep cycle batteries I would suggest equalizing every 3 months.

Equalization is stressful to cells and should only be done when needed.

If manufacturer's instructions exist, I would recommend those instead. Many indicate criteria such as "If SG is below X or the difference in SG across cells is greater than Y, equalize."

 

[eleceng1979]

Equalization is stressful to cells and should only be done when needed.

More stressful to the person conducting an EQ. True FLA battery nerds set the whole day aside for it, like the super bowl lol.

 

[OzSolar]

My stock statement is after 30+ years in this industry and more installations than I can count I can say. "I've never seen a deep cycle FLA lead battery in a non traction application die from cycles and I'm quite confident I never will. Abuse gets 90% of them then old age gets the rest"

IMHO: ~95% of abuse fall into three categories. 1)The biggie is chronic undercharging which is VERY easy to do, 2)failure to add water and 3)leaving them deeply discharged in freezing conditions.

My attempt at a succinct point is quickly slipping away but what I'm trying say is charge them properly and you'll handle almost all of your problems. Everything else falls into the category of unprovable black magic. I've equalized the HECK out of my personal FLA batteries and they are now 23 years old and still delivering every bit of 70% of thier rated ah compared to new.

 

[eleceng1979]

Amen. Seriously considering forklift FLA instead of LiFePo4. One is self extinguishing...

 

[sunshine_eggo]

My stock statement is after 30+ years in this industry and more installations than I can count I can say. "I've never seen a deep cycle FLA lead battery in a non traction application die from cycles and I'm quite confident I never will. Abuse gets 90% of them then old age gets the rest"

99% of abuse fall into three categories. The biggie is chronic undercharging which is VERY easy to do, failure to add water and leaving them deeply discharged in freezing conditions.

My attempt at a succinct point is quickly slipping away but what I'm trying say is charge them properly and you'll handle almost all of your problems. Everything else falls into the category of unprovable black magic. I've equalized the HECK out of my personal FLA batteries and they are now 23 years old and still delivering every bit of 70% of thier rated ah compared to new.

Love them Rolls...

 

[Ampster]

Love them Rolls...

Yes the weight, the monthly watering and the equalization to avoid sulfaton. something to behold. I thinks the reason they are still popular in forklifts is because the weight serves a dual purpose. It is the only instance that energy density is not as important as weight.
?

 

[wme]

FWIW 2 100ah AGM lasted 5 years. 2 GC-2 FLA +power pulse maintainer, 5 years. Still very good according to the hydrometer and the plate's look clean.
FLA's are maintenance sensitive.

 

[rhino]

I've been thinking about this for a while now since I have a 15+ year old Kubota tractor with over 1000 hours on it that is still using its original lead acid battery. It gets a lot of "agitation".