Lightning Protection

[Repro]

I am looking for lightning protection for my "Off Grid" system. A bit of explaining first. I have a Victron based system with a Quattro 48V/5000/70 that is connected to the grid (50A dedicated breaker) for charging purposes only. The system uses the grid connection maybe two to three time per year to charge my batteries when solar can't keep up. I have the Quattro configured to pull from the grid and charge the batteries when they hit an SOC of 30% or less. I do not and cannot feed back into the grid.

We have had 2 lightning strikes in the last four years that has managed to take out some computers, TV's and other electronics. This time I think it found its way to our Quattro. I had to send it in for repairs at a very high cost to me, however more than likely much less than the purchase cost of a new one. The shipping costs/insurance alone were $140. I am still waiting to find out how much exactly. I have a second smaller system that consists of a VE Phoenix 3000 that is not connected to the grid as it has no internal charger was not affected, and is still running fine.

What I am looking for is some sort of lightning surge protection. I did some research and came across this surge protector and would like some input:

MidNite Solar Surge Protection Device MNSPD-600

MidNite Solar MNSPD-600 Surge Protection Device

www.solar-electric.com

If anyone has any experience or knowledge on this topic, please, by all means chime in. All input and advice is highly welcome. Thanks!

 

[JRH]

I’m Gona buy a 2 or 3 of them….….I think they are pretty good.. I know they look cool with the little blue lights and it’s R2d2 appearance ….but honestly this whole lightning protection issue is enough to make one drink excessively ..lightning mocks your best efforts , then ignores those who do nothing. I really dislike lightning…
J.

 

[Repro]

I’m Gona buy a 2 or 3 of them….….I think they are pretty good.. I know they look cool with the little blue lights and it’s R2d2 appearance ….but honestly this whole lightning protection issue is enough to make one drink excessively ..lightning mocks your best efforts , then ignores those who do nothing. I really dislike lightning…
J.

Do you have and Lightning protection now? I have a lightning arrestor in my combiner box, and I thought that would be all I would need. Boy was I wrong. We think, or better said sure it was lightning. We didn't notice a flash during the daylight hours, but there was a clap of thunder that sounded like a shotgun going off in the house. It was so loud that our dog ran off into her bed and I just about soiled my undershorts.

In that moment all power went off including our solar with the VE Quattro. The grid came right back on. I found our Quattro blinking strangely with no way of bringing it back to life. Even a call to the Victron Dealer/Repair center did no good. They said send it in.

 

[timselectric]

Lightning can send a pulse of electricity into your system from any outside wiring. Solar, grid, even the ground (if installed incorrectly). All that you can do is try to cover all of the bases.

 

[JRH]

Do you have and Lightning protection now? I have a lightning arrestor in my combiner box, and I thought that would be all I would need. Boy was I wrong. We think, or better said sure it was lightning. We didn't notice a flash during the daylight hours, but there was a clap of thunder that sounded like a shotgun going off in the house. It was so loud that our dog ran off into her bed and I just about soiled my undershorts.

In that moment all power went off including our solar with the VE Quattro. The grid came right back on. I found our Quattro blinking strangely with no way of bringing it back to life. Even a call to the Victron Dealer/Repair center did no good. They said send it in.

No I don’t yet as I’m in the middle of building the system. But I will soon..
lightnig hit very near the other day . It was so close I could hear the sizzle of the electricity ( like a power line arc) before the thunderclap… as soon as I heard that sizzle I started to count the seconds to see how close it was.. way less than a half second…maybe a couple of hundred ft based on the normal 5000 ft per second rule( approximate) ...I had just walked back inside about 10 seconds before this happened..Yeow.

the Emp burst that surrounds the strike ran all over my shed and through all the wires laying out on the ground where I was working on the system and took out my brand new fan I just hooked up. , also the internet modem for the third time , jumped into the AC circuit on my shed and tripped the GFCI where the modem was hooked …. it appears it went to the shed sub panel and went to ground at the rod up at the main house As there is only one grounding electrode 60 ft up at the house . That’s my best guess but who knows for sure.

It sounds like you had a near strike … if I had been standing outside when it hit , the “step charge “in the ground gradient probably would have got me…last summer it killed two horses standing near a strike in the pasture across the road…instantly… hit about a hundred feet from them… I saw it hit and they just fell down.. not cool.

once again I will say I don’t like lightning at all . It’s right creepy..
J,

 

[EJansen]

Another alternative would be to go with these guys for both lightning and EMP protection - https://www.empshield.com/solar-and-wind/

 

[Repro]

Another alternative would be to go with these guys for both lightning and EMP protection - https://www.empshield.com/solar-and-wind/

This looks like a really great product. It will allow my to protect my entire house and is really easy to install. I am going to give them a call today. Thanks!

 

[EJansen]

This looks like a really great product. It will allow my to protect my entire house and is really easy to install. I am going to give them a call today. Thanks!

They are. I've spoken to the engineers there multiple times - they know their craft. All parts are made in the USA as well.

 

[Repro]

They are. I've spoken to the engineers there multiple times - they know their craft. All parts are made in the USA as well.

I have looked EMP Shield over, called them and talked to them as well. I bought the whole home protection from the breaker box. The specs and data look great and nothing else I have seen compares to this and the price is great. The way it looks, installation is a breeze and it doesn't need much space.

If I only would have had this small device already installed, I would have saved a ton of money on replacing TV's, computers and now my inverter. Just a word of caution to all members, if you have your solar system connected to the grid for whatever reason, get protection.

Thanks again to all who gave their input. This forum is the best!

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

I am looking for lightning protection for my "Off Grid" system. A bit of explaining first. I have a Victron based system with a Quattro 48V/5000/70 that is connected to the grid (50A dedicated breaker) for charging purposes only. The system uses the grid connection maybe two to three time per year to charge my batteries when solar can't keep up. I have the Quattro configured to pull from the grid and charge the batteries when they hit an SOC of 30% or less. I do not and cannot feed back into the grid.

We have had 2 lightning strikes in the last four years that has managed to take out some computers, TV's and other electronics. This time I think it found its way to our Quattro. I had to send it in for repairs at a very high cost to me, however more than likely much less than the purchase cost of a new one. The shipping costs/insurance alone were $140. I am still waiting to find out how much exactly. I have a second smaller system that consists of a VE Phoenix 3000 that is not connected to the grid as it has no internal charger was not affected, and is still running fine.

What I am looking for is some sort of lightning surge protection. I did some research and came across this surge protector and would like some input:

MidNite Solar Surge Protection Device MNSPD-600

MidNite Solar MNSPD-600 Surge Protection Device

www.solar-electric.com

If anyone has any experience or knowledge on this topic, please, by all means chime in. All input and advice is highly welcome. Thanks!

I use these at my exterior combiner boxes / quick disconnects on my off-grid system - hoping to intercept any lightning surge before the wiring enters my home.

 

[timselectric]

I use these at my exterior combiner boxes / quick disconnects on my off-grid system - hoping to intercept any lightning surge before the wiring enters my home.
View attachment 106665

Nearby lightning strikes generate a pulse on long lengths of wire. It then travels in both directions. Surge protection near the panels, protects the panels.
Surge protection near the SCC, protects the rest of your equipment.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

Nearby lightning strikes generate a pulse on long lengths of wire. It then travels in both directions. Surge protection near the panels, protects the panels.
Surge protection near the SCC, protects the rest of your equipment.

Not sure what to make of this comment. I'm not qualified to dispute it but I don't understand the case you're thinking of. So... to take the conversation forward - my experience in lightning strikes within homes in a city would typically be the roof/chimmey/(old days - tv antenna) kind of things. And in my yard, the large metal solar array. When I golfed, I do agree that wide open spaces can get a lighting strike.

Solar Array - OK, we agree the lightning arrestors at the arrays will help there.

House/Roof - Not sure I've ever heard of surges that overwhelm the house ground. Is this what you're thinking of?

Along the street/Power Poles? - aren't they protected by the power company equipment?

I'm asking for clarification out of interest. This topic is not that well discussed w/regard to solar.

 

[timselectric]

Not sure what to make of this comment. I'm not qualified to dispute it but I don't understand the case you're thinking of. So... to take the conversation forward - my experience in lightning strikes within homes in a city would typically be the roof/chimmey/(old days - tv antenna) kind of things. And in my yard, the large metal solar array. When I golfed, I do agree that wide open spaces can get a lighting strike.

Solar Array - OK, we agree the lightning arrestors at the arrays will help there.

House/Roof - Not sure I've ever heard of surges that overwhelm the house ground. Is this what you're thinking of?

Along the street/Power Poles? - aren't they protected by the power company equipment?

I'm asking for clarification out of interest. This topic is not that well discussed w/regard to solar.

In your picture it appeared to be a ground mounted array. If lighting strikes nearby, it will generate a pulse on the wiring between the array and the house. This pulse will travel in both directions. (Towards the array and house) arrestors mounted at the array will be between the beginning of the pulse and the array. They will only protect the array in this case. If lighting directly strikes the array, they can possibly protect the house. But more than likely the strike will generate a pulse on the wiring, which is after the arrestors. It's recommended to install arrestors at both ends of outside wiring. This protects the equipment at both ends.
Beyond that, a direct lightning strike will destroy whatever it hits. The object is to protect everything else.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

In your picture it appeared to be a ground mounted array. If lighting strikes nearby, it will generate a pulse on the wiring between the array and the house. This pulse will travel in both directions. (Towards the array and house) arrestors mounted at the array will be between the beginning of the pulse and the array. They will only protect the array in this case. If lighting directly strikes the array, they can possibly protect the house. But more than likely the strike will generate a pulse on the wiring, which is after the arrestors. It's recommended to install arrestors at both ends of outside wiring. This protects the equipment at both ends.
Beyond that, a direct lightning strike will destroy whatever it hits. The object is to protect everything else.

I see - you're talking about 'regular' surge. For example, I've long used APC UPSs to protect sensitive equipment (computer equip, Tivo, TV, etc) from power failures but they also have surge protection. And in fact I lost an expensive HP printer once to 'surge' - which is why I went with APCs.

Also - this explains why I've seen a few solar setups with Lightening arrestors at the charge controllers instead of the arrays - and wondered why / thought I don't want lightening to get that far so I'll put them out at the combiner boxes! But it's similar to surge protection at computers above is what you're saying.

This isn't mentioned much in solar setups.

And the rest of the house is much more vulnerable these days (as compared to 20years ago) as even the Oven has operational electronics these days.

 

[timselectric]

I see - you're talking about 'regular' surge. For example, I've long used APC UPSs to protect sensitive equipment (computer equip, Tivo, TV, etc) from power failures but they also have surge protection. And in fact I lost an expensive HP printer once to 'surge' - which is why I went with APCs.

Also - this explains why I've seen a few solar setups with Lightening arrestors at the charge controllers instead of the arrays - and wondered why / thought I don't want lightening to get that far so I'll put them out at the combiner boxes! But it's similar to surge protection at computers above is what you're saying.

This isn't mentioned much in solar setups.

And the rest of the house is much more vulnerable these days (as compared to 20years ago) as even the Oven has operational electronics these days.

Yes, technology is great. When it's working.
I do a lot of marine work. And switching from generator to shore power twice a day, can kill these new electronic air conditioners and dishwashers.
(Towboats running loads downriver daily)

 

[Repro]

I use these at my exterior combiner boxes / quick disconnects on my off-grid system - hoping to intercept any lightning surge before the wiring enters my home.
View attachment 106665

Thank for the input. My panel array is protected at the combiner box with a cut off, breakers and fuses as well as a lightning arrestor. I also have a cut off switch and fuse at the DC input of my SCC. I think I am adequately protected at the panels. The lightning strike went through my main grid box where I have a dedicated 50A breaker and service to my VE Quattro for the charger.

 

[Repro]

Not sure what to make of this comment. I'm not qualified to dispute it but I don't understand the case you're thinking of. So... to take the conversation forward - my experience in lightning strikes within homes in a city would typically be the roof/chimmey/(old days - tv antenna) kind of things. And in my yard, the large metal solar array. When I golfed, I do agree that wide open spaces can get a lighting strike.

Solar Array - OK, we agree the lightning arrestors at the arrays will help there.

House/Roof - Not sure I've ever heard of surges that overwhelm the house ground. Is this what you're thinking of?

Along the street/Power Poles? - aren't they protected by the power company equipment?

I'm asking for clarification out of interest. This topic is not that well discussed w/regard to solar.

My Panel array is adequately protected.

My house mains and box grounding is inside the house in my basement. When I bought the house I switched to a 200A service and the electricians had to install a second grounding rod at a distance of 8ft from the original then connected together. It would be really hard for lighting to strike my ground.

The transformers are the protection for the power company lines, but they are really bad at surge and lightning protection. Our house is the first house coming off of the transformer. Any surge or lightning from that pole would definitely affect us. Our first lightning strike was from that pole. We found wood pieces from the pole all over our front yard. This strike is mysterious. We don't know how it got into out house. All that was affected was the Inverter. Everything else works.

We have a steel roof and we had it inspected for a lightning strike, no signs of that at all. We cheked out the house and found nothing.

 

[Repro]

Like I posted earlier, I already purchased the EMP Shield system. This system looks really robust and meets/exceeds MIL Spec. Installation is a joke and reasonably priced. Actually on sale now.

 

[JRH]

In your picture it appeared to be a ground mounted array. If lighting strikes nearby, it will generate a pulse on the wiring between the array and the house. This pulse will travel in both directions. (Towards the array and house) arrestors mounted at the array will be between the beginning of the pulse and the array. They will only protect the array in this case. If lighting directly strikes the array, they can possibly protect the house. But more than likely the strike will generate a pulse on the wiring, which is after the arrestors. It's recommended to install arrestors at both ends of outside wiring. This protects the equipment at both ends.
Beyond that, a direct lightning strike will destroy whatever it hits. The object is to protect everything else.

A year later I finally understand this … now I know enough to know you are right and so was I .
I told the seller I wanted two or three for this reason… the “world wide seller” told me I only needed ONE to protect everything.. didnt make since but what did I know ? .. I had just started.!

now I’m putting about 6 of them everywhere .. needed or not.. plus Anderson plugs so I can totally disconnect everything from everything if I know bad stuff is coming…
thank you Tim. You are a patient and wise man

 

[OzSolar]

They work.

From a recent service call. Equipment was all still fine.

MidNite SPD before and after

Thought I'd post something I found today. Customer called to say thier SunnyBoy inverter hadn't been producing for a few days and the breaker feeding the inverter feeding the was tripped... Uh-oh. I get there and find the Midnite SPD looking like it had some unplanned fun. Pulled it off the...

diysolarforum.com