Lithium ion compatibility

[Jécc]

Hi .

I’ve got a solar system in the process of being sign off by local state inspector .
And he s giving me trouble claiming the compatibility between my inverter ; Outback radian 4048a and flex max charge controller with the new ethos 10.2 kw lithium ion battery ul certified .
Outback says that it is compatible and big battery (the manufacturer ) says as well that it is compatible . Not a close loop but compatible .
What could I do since I have docs that proves it ?
Thank you

 

[AZ Solar Junkie]

I hear that can be an issue with inspections - from my understanding they have to be lab tested as UL compliant as a specific combination of components, not just the individual components individually - at least as far as the inverter & battery combination. Perhaps it would also apply when bringing a separate charge controller into the mix as well. Others will know more about this than I do - just going by comments made by others in the past...

 

[Jécc]

Thanks for your answer .
This is what I made sure of before .
I asked both manufacturers , Outback and big battery about their compatibility of their specific combination together :
And they both said it is .
What more could I have done ? And can the inspector be above any listing compatibility ?

 

[Q-Dog]

There is a difference between "compatible" with each other and "UL approved" to work together.

 

[Jécc]

There is a difference between "compatible" with each other and "UL approved" to work together.

There is a ul listing for each battery and brand Inverter that says they ll work together ?

 

[Q-Dog]

There is a ul listing for each battery and brand Inverter that says they ll work together ?

If your inspector is making an issue of this, ask her/him for a list of approved combinations.

 

[hwy17]

There is a ul listing for each battery and brand Inverter that says they ll work together ?

The difference is if your inspector is insisting on UL9540A (separate certifications) or UL9540 (system certification).

If it's 9540 then both UL and "compatible" isn't sufficient, they have to be UL certified together as an ESS system.

Here is an example press release of an inverter and battery achieving full 9540 certification together:

https://solar.se.com/us/en/press-releases/schneider-electric-solar-and-discover-battery-attain-ul-9540-certification-for-xw-pro-and-aes-batteries/

 

[Jécc]

The difference is if your inspector is insisting on UL9540A (separate certifications) or UL9540 (system certification).

If it's 9540 then both UL and "compatible" isn't sufficient, they have to be UL certified together as an ESS system.

Here is an example press release of an inverter and battery achieving full 9540 certification together:

https://solar.se.com/us/en/press-releases/schneider-electric-solar-and-discover-battery-attain-ul-9540-certification-for-xw-pro-and-aes-batteries/

Given the rarity of this occurring .
They then limitate the choice for consumer to 1 or 2 combinations …
I’ve talked with solar installers and they all said that as soon as it’s ul certified and inverter and cc compatible with lithium ion batteries , which is the case . The comms of the system or the efficiency of the design isn’t up to Inspector . No ?
Otherwise where does it end , ?
As soon as it’s safe isn’t it the purpose of inspections ?

 

[timselectric]

They then limitate the choice for consumer to 1 or 2 combinations …

Absolutely correct.
They have to be certified as a single system. Which makes it very limited.
In time, there will be more options. But for now, only a handful of collaborations are certified this way.

 

[hwy17]

The comms of the system or the efficiency of the design isn’t up to Inspector . No ?

No. It's up to which version of the NEC your AHJ is on. I don't know the details, maybe full 9540 is required on 2020+?

Otherwise where does it end , ?

Out of control proliferation of complexity in all areas of our society doesn't end. It consumes.

 

[Jécc]

No. It's up to which version of the NEC your AHJ is on. I don't know the details, maybe full 9540 is required on 2020+?

Out of control proliferation of complexity in all areas of our society doesn't end. It consumes.

If that’s the case . I m just good to throw away a 4K $ battery and same price inverter ….. great .
I can’t believe tech support of any manufacturers don’t know that then …

 

[timselectric]

If that’s the case . I m just good to throw away a 4K $ battery and same price inverter ….. great .
I can’t believe tech support of any manufacturers don’t know that then …

They know.
But you asked the wrong question. And they weren't forthcoming on extra information.

 

[Q-Dog]

If that’s the case . I m just good to throw away a 4K $ battery and same price inverter ….. great .
I can’t believe tech support of any manufacturers don’t know that then …

This is why you need to get the approved list from your inspector.

 

[hwy17]

This is why you need to get the approved list from your inspector.

He'll probably say that's not his problem and you should ask the manufacturer. Unless Colorado uses the CEC list.

 

[Jécc]

He'll probably say that's not his problem and you should ask the manufacturer. Unless Colorado uses the CEC list.

Manufacturer said it’s compatible .

 

[Jécc]

They know.
But you asked the wrong question. And they weren't forthcoming on extra information.

How would you formulate your question then ? Other than « is this battery compatible per state inspector concern with this inverter and cc ? «

 

[hwy17]

Manufacturer said it’s compatible .

Don't take me for defending this system or inspectors. But in their logic you should have asked the manufacturer whether the inverter is 9540 certified with the battery. This is all if your AHJ is on NEC 2020.

 

[Q-Dog]

He'll probably say that's not his problem and you should ask the manufacturer. Unless Colorado uses the CEC list.

It doesn't really matter what list they use. Ask them for the list they use to determine what they will and will not allow.

 

[Jécc]

Don't take me for defending this system or inspectors. But in their logic you should have asked the manufacturer whether the inverter is 9540 certified with the battery. This is all if your AHJ is on NEC 2020.

Do you have a screen of the nec 2020 where this new regulation is written down ?

 

[hwy17]

It doesn't really matter what list they use. Ask them for the list they use to determine what they will and will not allow.

They don't have to have a list. They don't have a list of what outlets you can use either, they just say they have to be certified by an approved tester, which is usually UL.

They might have a list, but they don't have to.