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Low surge, energy efficient dishwashers for off grid use?

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ElectricIslander

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 29, 2020
Messages
181
Location
British Columbia, Canada
Running a near new, free back alley find nice Kenmore (Sears Canada brand) dishwasher our neighbours ripped out during a kitchen rebuild.

Works perfectly in our off grid cabin, except: Large motor starting surge means it won't start on either our Honda 2200i or HondaEu3000 with eco mode on. This dishwasher will only run with eco mode off on the Eu3000 which is a waste of gas as most of the time it draws much less than the full 3000 watts or more that the generator can deliver with eco mode off.

Eventually we plan to install a Schneider XW6448 inverter which would probably start this dishwasher but meanwhile it makes sense to find an "inverter" style dishwasher with low starting motor surge and higher efficiency for off grid use. We have an inverter LG washer which barely affects the Honda 2000 at all when it starts and an LG Inverter fridge which is also very easy to run on a tiny generator.

Any recommendations for an off grid compatible, low starting surge, energy efficient brand dishwasher that might be available in Canada?

Thanks!
 
I researched this recently and here is what i found. Almost all dishwashers are going to pull about 1200w at minimum when running the heat element. You can go to the energy star website and look at all the most efficient dishwashers by model and compare their specs but you won't find much difference between the most efficient models. I remember seeing lots of Miele products- pricey, but the best of the best.

And that Schneider will start 6 of these dishwashers at the same time so no worries!
 
Thanks but the heater element doesn't seem to be the problem, even a Honda 2200W can handle a 1200W resistive load. but not the instantaneous motor surge. I was thinking that maybe adding a 50 uF motor run capacitor across the leads of the rather simple induction motor of the dishwasher might help tame the starting surge. On the other hand was wondering if anyone is using the LG Inverter dishwashers and can comment on how easy their motors are to start on a modest power source.
 
Advice: keep looking for another dishwasher.

That must be old. I have a 5 year old GE Profile dishwasher and I got that from town recycling when it was less than 2 years old hit by lightning. It was an easy fix.I measured it as only 100W max and 100WH for an entire cycle without the heating element. It runs on a 700W MSW inverter. I disconnected the heating element and ran the wires to an off delay relay and powered the heating element with solar panels which were only 60V. In dry mode it only runs the element 50% of the time. With the off delay relay that turns into 100% and the dishes dry fine. I believe Hondas have a relay input to rev the engine up for high loads.
 
ElectricIslander said:
Running a near new, free back alley find nice Kenmore (Sears Canada brand) dishwasher our neighbours ripped out during a kitchen rebuild.

Works perfectly in our off grid cabin, except: Large motor starting surge means it won't start on either our Honda 2200i or HondaEu3000 with eco mode on. This dishwasher will only run with eco mode off on the Eu3000 which is a waste of gas as most of the time it draws much less than the full 3000 watts or more that the generator can deliver with eco mode off.

Eventually we plan to install a Schneider XW6448 inverter which would probably start this dishwasher but meanwhile it makes sense to find an "inverter" style dishwasher with low starting motor surge and higher efficiency for off grid use. We have an inverter LG washer which barely affects the Honda 2000 at all when it starts and an LG Inverter fridge which is also very easy to run on a tiny generator.

Any recommendations for an off grid compatible, low starting surge, energy efficient brand dishwasher that might be available in Canada?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
One of my neighbours spent more on “energy efficient” appliances than it cost for my entire power system and “normal” appliances.

Keep that in mine if you are paying a large premium for efficiency.

Similar to spending an extra $100k for passivhaus style building. Way better to build normally and spend the extra on your power system.
 
In a similar vein, some people spend a lot of money trying to fix up previous bad decisions. It looks like it would be more expensive to make this dishwasher work. I bought a front load electronic drive LG clothes washer and dumped a perfectly good washer so I could operate with solar panels and no battery.
 
Your 3k Honda should start that no problem.

Your 2k Honda should start it.

There is something wrong. Your wiring is too small or too long somewhere causing excess voltage drop or there is something wrong with dishwasher..jammed pump maybe?
 
The wiring is totally standard and not the problem, have short and heavy 8 gauge line from generator shed.

Dishwasher runs fine on the Honda 3000 with eco mode off, so not a jammed pump.

The Kenmore dishwasher circulation/pump motor is just a simple, cheap shaded pole motor which inherently has a large starting surge. I looked at it an there is no way to use a start capacitor to help reduce starting surge so just need to find a more efficient dishwasher left out in alley next time ....!

The control board is crazy complicated (even has an internet over powerline module to phone home to Kenmore Service department). Unless running the generator without the ecoswitch on, the control board goes into a snit when the motor doesn't start in the expected timeframe and it faults out.
 
ElectricIslander said:
The wiring is totally standard and not the problem, have short and heavy 8 gauge line from generator shed.

Dishwasher runs fine on the Honda 3000 with eco mode off, so not a jammed pump.

The Kenmore dishwasher circulation/pump motor is just a simple, cheap shaded pole motor which inherently has a large starting surge. I looked at it an there is no way to use a start capacitor to help reduce starting surge so just need to find a more efficient dishwasher left out in alley next time ....!

The control board is crazy complicated (even has an internet over powerline module to phone home to Kenmore Service department). Unless running the generator without the ecoswitch on, the control board goes into a snit when the motor doesn't start in the expected timeframe and it faults out.
Click to expand...
I use 2200 Hondas to start and run 16" beam saws.

My 3000 Watt Yamaha starts the dryer with the 1500 watt microwave running.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
I hate to admit it, but we bought this stupid thing...

View attachment 108792

No surge, 900W peak, about 0.35kWh per load. 5L of water. You have to be really creative getting all the dishes in there, and it's really only good for 4 settings (plates, glasses, silverware, etc.), but it really does a nice job in our 5th wheel.
Click to expand...
OMG, that's so cute. Got a link?
 
Once upon a time I bought a nice new home ..first thing I did was secretly disconnect the wire to the switch in the wall that fed the dishwasher.. told the wife ,”hmmmmmm,it doesnt work dear” we will have to get another one.
She said “ no biggie“ … and we just washed the dishes like we had done for 10 years on our live aboard sailboat…never even thought about it again… I reconnected it many years later when we sold the house.
Never had to deal with looking for dishes that were always in the dishwasher, opening it up to find no one had started the stupid thing, no electricity bill for somthing we didn’t need ,no noise , no leaks , No repairs… good riddance ….
We’re still together , still happy . I told her years later what I did, and she laughed…and we still don’t have a dishwasher ,except us…?
 
sunshine_eggo said:
I hate to admit it, but we bought this stupid thing...

View attachment 108792

No surge, 900W peak, about 0.35kWh per load. 5L of water. You have to be really creative getting all the dishes in there, and it's really only good for 4 settings (plates, glasses, silverware, etc.), but it really does a nice job in our 5th wheel.
Click to expand...
That’s the same TV I had in my dorm room… why no rabbit ears…? does it have co-ax, composite or component hook ups. ?.. what colors can I get it in..? I want one for my workshop …!
 
My dishwasher definately isn’t a “low surge” one as it’s a full size Miele which pulls about 2035W for the initial 20 mins of cycle while it heats the water, but nevertheless I run it on solar during sunny days when we have enough sunshine to have our batteries fully charged by early afternoon and then 100A or so of PV production goes direct from the charge controllers to the inverter and only 110A or so is pulled from battery.

What makes it energy efficient I suppose is that I follow the “creative stacking” regime @sunshine_eggo made reference to and really max pack those dishes in, so we run the thing only once in 4-5 days and can usually pick a sunny enough day.
 
Jack Rabbit Off Grid said:
that’s my biggest concern. We live off grid and haul water in Until I can get my rain harvest system up and running.
Click to expand...

We are in EXACTLY the same boat... difference is we're only there 4-6 days/month, and the 1000 gallons we have on hand lasts us quite a while.. Top off with ~660 gallons 1-2 times a year.

IMHO, a contentious human dishwasher can do better, but it's worth it since it makes my wife happy. :)
 
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