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New house - what to get for solar?

Brushape

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Sep 6, 2022
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We are in the process of building a new house. Originally I was going to do a Sunpower system with a backup battery and sell the power back to the power company. I'm not sure I want to do that.

My wife wants things to be as easy as possible if I'm not around. (dead) :)

So here is what my requirements.
Easy - basically install and forget
The house will be all electric. Heat and AC will be provided by heat pumps.
Water heater will be hybrid.
Don't need to sell the power back to the power company. Our rate is only $.11 KWh. Probably not realistic and I really don't want to give them control.
Battery power should last 4 -8 hours. Longer outages I want recharge the batteries with a generator. So I need to recharge batteries by solar or generator.
The house will be about 1700 sq ft and well insulated but will be in southern Minnesota
 
The house will be all electric. Heat and AC will be provided by heat pumps.
house will be about 1700 sq ft and well insulated but will be in southern Minnesota
Sounds like a challenge for sure.
Big system.
You will need to define the total loads to be able to try sizing this.
Will the site have large open areas without shading available for large ground mount?
 
For MN, unless you size big, you will overproduce in summer and underproduce in winter.

I would find a sol-ark installer that has lots of installs (see sol-ark website). If you are gone, your wife needs someone who can fix it.

Plan for installing the max you can, but install something average for your area. Then you have an easy upgrade path.
 
I used Mankato as a southern MN site, put this into PV watts calculator, this is what it spits out:
I used 44 degree tilt due south for a 1kW array - results are 'per kW of PV'.
Total for the year 1365kWh, best month July=140kWh, Worst month December 81kWh (A 1.7:1 ratio of worst to best.
Tilting up to 60 degrees for Oct -end of Feb increase by 16kWh (ie not a lot) but would aid with snow removal if that is an issue.
Not sure what your loads will total but picking 50kWh per day as a target,
50 x 30.5 days per month / Dec. 81kWh/1kw array size = 19kW array min.
In July this array would likely produce 19x 140kWh = 2660kWh (87kWh/day)
Any shading on the site will affect these values.
 
I'm just spitballing here

But to run full electric heating, cooking, AC in the summer , you are going to need MANY solar panels


Say your power usage is 30kwh a day , that's easy to cover in summer , you'd only need about 6kw of panels (15 x 400w panels)

BUT winter is a whole different story, you'll need more like 25kw-30kw of panels to make 30kwhs reliably ... (60-75 X 400w panels)

75 panels is a LOT ?

75 panels @$150 is over $11,000 just in solar panels
 
I may need to think about this more. Our current house has gas heat and a gas water heater. It looks like our peak electric use is about 66kWh/day. That is AC months - July/August. I'm guessing this would be useage in the cold months in the new house. The current house is smaller but was built in the 30s and insulation leaves much to be desired. Aside from a complicated system that the wife can't figure out I don't want half of the cost of my house going toward solar. I will see about contacting a Sol-Ark guy. It seems that might be the best bet.
 
I may need to think about this more. Our current house has gas heat and a gas water heater. It looks like our peak electric use is about 66kWh/day. That is AC months - July/August. I'm guessing this would be useage in the cold months in the new house. The current house is smaller but was built in the 30s and insulation leaves much to be desired. Aside from a complicated system that the wife can't figure out I don't want half of the cost of my house going toward solar. I will see about contacting a Sol-Ark guy. It seems that might be the best bet.



To make up the winter short fall what most people do is just run a generator. You can get an autostart Propane generator. Simple, low maintenance and automatic


66kwh a day would seem a lot for heating a well insulated modern house , I guess it really depends on how cold it gets!

Consider a real fire ?
 
Don't have a complex roof shape, and have the majority of it a single south-facing plane to the extent possible. Beyond that, if you don't want to install more batteries now that is fine, but plan for 60kWh or so. Running from batteries is an order of magnitude easier than a generator.

A lot of this is going to come down to just how well insulated your house is, are you using an ERV, are you going with heat pump instead of resistance heat for HVAC as well as water heating and potentially your dryer. Hydronic heating is also going to be significantly more efficient (and comfortable) than a central furnace, and can create a thermal mass that reduces your loads a lot.

If your loads come out to >60kWh/day then you might really do well to look at higher quality windows and additional continuous exterior insulation.
 
Or, pick a property to develop that is further south, where there is more sun and less winter! :unsure: -Yeah says the guy even further north...:whistle:
{we don't even try to heat with solar, wood heat is our go to}
 
I may need to think about this more. Our current house has gas heat and a gas water heater. It looks like our peak electric use is about 66kWh/day. That is AC months - July/August. I'm guessing this would be useage in the cold months in the new house. The current house is smaller but was built in the 30s and insulation leaves much to be desired. Aside from a complicated system that the wife can't figure out I don't want half of the cost of my house going toward solar. I will see about contacting a Sol-Ark guy. It seems that might be the best bet.
This is a long post, but here goes. Open to comments/critiques from everyone, and I hope it gives you some food for thought. I'm in a similar situation as you - building a new home in a cold climate (Maine) with a desire for it to be all-electric and powered as much as possible with solar. Those last two things (all electric and solar) are proving to be a real challenge, due to winter heating concerns. So, I'm moving away from the ALL-electric stance, and shifting toward "mostly" electric (winter heat being the exception, because that's what would force me to dramatically oversize my system).

Here's where I'm at, although this might change:

1) Insulate the heck out of the building. R20 slab, R40 walls (double stud with dense pack cellulose), R60 ceiling. Triple pane windows, and not too many of them. Focus on barriers to water, air, vapor, thermal transfer - in that order.
2) Design for and Install radiant hydronic heat (in-slab for ground floor, low temp radiators for 2nd floor) with a good-sized buffer tank. Heat this with a propane boiler, and see where we are after the first winter. If heating requirements are as low as I hope, this will become only the coldest-weather heating system because we'll also use:
3) Air-air heat pumps (mini-splits). These will provide cooling and dehumidification during summer, when we'll produce more solar energy than we can use. They'll also provide shoulder season heating, which is sometimes needed for just an hour or two in the morning. Hydronic heating, especially via a slab, is not great for this situation as it tends to overheat. I can fire up the slab in November and run it through March, then shift to the mini-splits.
4) Install and use an ERV, simply because the house will be so tight. One of my favorite phrases is, "Humans, not houses, need to breathe. Houses just need to dry." See comment on barriers in #1 above.
5) Size inverter(s) to handle the mini-splits, induction cooktop, electric oven, heat pump dryer (my wife doesn't want a propane dryer), etc., but size batteries just enough to provide about 1-1.5 days of backup for everything, including the mini-splits. See more below re that.
6) I still haven't decided whether to connect to the grid, or if we do, whether to net meter / export to the grid. I'm hoping to avoid it. We pay about $0.28/kwh here because our idiot utilities are so dependent on natural gas, and our idiot legislature in the past tied the price of solar incentives for commercial farms to the price of natural gas, so when one price is high, so is the other. They're fixing that now as best they can, but it means we'll be paying high prices for electricity well into the future. Connecting to the grid seems to mean we're also more limited on equipment suppliers. The only reason I'm still considering it is the convenience factor for my wife if I kick the bucket or become so old and feeble I can't manage the system.
7) Back to the battery / days of reserve thing... Batteries are easily the most expensive part of a solar power system, so if possible, that's the place with the most opportunity to economize. It's also relatively easy to add additional battery storage in the future if the inverter-charger has been appropriately sized with that in mind. If we size them to provide 1-1.5 days WHILE USING THE MINI-SPLITS, that gives us several days of power in winter, when solar production is worst and we're heating with propane. For cloudy, humid days we can just fire up the generator during daylight hours and recharge if we stay off grid.
8) Use ground mounts for solar. Much easier to clear snow, far fewer requirements for rapid shutdown, and much easier repair and maintenance. Once my wife said she didn't mind seeing them, it was an easy decision. Only problem is trenching as we have much ledge (bedrock) near surface, but that's manageable.

To be frank, I think my desire to avoid fossil fuels initially led me to design a system that wasn't very practical for our climate. Our 3-3.5 hours of winter sun make solar heating really, really tough. Our energy conservation efforts (all the insulation, etc.) will minimize our fossil fuel use, but allowing it into the mix likely makes it much easier to stay off grid, and if we do connect, keeps the size of our array and battery bank much more manageable. Anyway, that's my thinking. Hope it's of some value.
 
Congratulations on your new house project! It's great that you're considering solar. Given your requirements for an easy and reliable system, you might want to explore a grid-tied solar setup with a battery backup. This way, you can use solar power when it's available and rely on the grid or a generator during extended outages. However, it's better to consult a professional, like Mortgage Broker in Tamworth. I hope that helps!
 
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To be frank, I think my desire to avoid fossil fuels initially led me to design a system that wasn't very practical for our climate. Our 3-3.5 hours of winter sun make solar heating really, really tough. Our energy conservation efforts (all the insulation, etc.) will minimize our fossil fuel use, but allowing it into the mix likely makes it much easier to stay off grid, and if we do connect, keeps the size of our array and battery bank much more manageable. Anyway, that's my thinking
Is there a geothermal option that would work in your region/situation? less reliance on Propane, which could be your back up energy, and available for a dual fuel generator too.
Just some ideas to consider.
 
Is there a geothermal option that would work in your region/situation? less reliance on Propane, which could be your back up energy, and available for a dual fuel generator too.
Just some ideas to consider.
I could certainly do geothermal, but it’s tough to justify the cost. Wells are about $8.5-9K each here, and I’d probably need at least two. Add on the equipment cost and the payback is likely something like 30 years. I’m 60, so..:
 
Add on the equipment cost and the payback is likely something like 30 years. I’m 60, so..:
...so the next generation will thank you!
yeah, I can see that not making a lot of economic sense.
In some areas they don't need wells, they use a mesh type of pipe network stuff buried below frost line. But this depends on local ground water and frost levels, and soils. I am on bedrock (30-40 inches below surface) with local frost line at 7-8 feet ...so no geothermal for me either 😭
 

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