Newbie troubleshooting

[lopicma]

I have my system wired up. I thought I had over built, but I am having a 100amp breaker tripping when I put a load on. I don't want to just put a larger breaker on "willy-nilly", because to be honest, this was intimidating as much as it was easy.
Thanks for any help.

I am attaching photos of the setup.

 

[Supervstech]

Get a better brand breaker.
Those are notorious for inaccurate function.
That style needs to be BUSS branded...

 

[boondox]

How much of a load and of what type are you putting on there? INductive loads like a motor often have a much high start surge. We need more info to help.

 

[John Frum]

Assuming its a 12 volt system.
First thought, is that a cheap breaker of dubious provenance?
Cheap breakers from amazon or similar have a reputation of tripping low if you are lucky and welding closed if you are unlucky.
If it was me I would get this one bussman

Second idea, is that breaker tripping the moment you turn on the inverter?
If yes its probably the capacitor inrush that is the problem.
That can be solved with a resistor.

 

[onemorebattery]

The inverter is 2000w surge so the breaker is undersized. 2000w/12v=167A.

 

[Supervstech]

The inverter is 2000w surge so the breaker is undersized. 2000w/12v=167A.

Surge has nothing to do with loads...

 

[Supervstech]

That inverter likely will NEVER pull more than 60amps from the battery... probably is straining at 800watts...
but if it actually will sustain 1000 watt draw from the battery, it shouldn’t trip a 90amp breaker, much less a 100...

 

[Supervstech]

Also, get an accurate volt meter, and when in full sun, measure the panel voltage at that charge controller... odds are good it will be the same as battery voltage, indicating you have a pwm charge controller...

 

[lopicma]

Thanks for the fast replies folk.

I will look into the breaker.
Yes on the 12v system.
Having a volt meter is fine if you know how to use it. That's on me of course...
The load tested was a 1500 watt heat gun running on LOW. If I ran it on high, the inverter would trip the system off. It runs for about 3-5 minutes before the breaker pops.
None of the wires are getting hot, which is what I was testing for. I didn't expect the breaker to cause a problem.
The battery seems to be fully charged, so I am not seeing any charging from the solar panel.

 

[onemorebattery]

Surge has nothing to do with loads...

With a 1500 watt heat gun there is really no question at all why the breaker is tripping.

What Are Surges | NEMA Surge protection Institute

www.nemasurge.org

Switching of Electrical Loads

The switching (on and off) and operation of certain electrical loads – whether due to intentional or unintentional operations – can be a source of surges in the electrical system. Switching surges are not always immediately recognized or disruptive as larger externally generated surges but they occur far more frequently. These switching surges can be disruptive and damaging to equipment over time. They occur as part of every day operations.

Sources of switching and oscillatory surges include:

• Contactor, relay and breaker operations
• Switching of capacitor banks and loads (such as power factor correction)
• Discharge of inductive devices (motors, transformers, etc.)
• Starting and stopping of loads
• Fault or arc initiation
• Arcing (ground) faults
• Fault clearing or interruption
• Power system recovery (from outage)
• Loose connections

 

[lopicma]

Well, right now I am running a 120 watt fan to drain off some of the battery. It has gone over 30 minutes, so maybe the heat gun was too much for the system. I need to bleed off the battery to make sure the solar charge portion works.

I did order the suggested breaker.

 

[Justin Laureltec]

...I would also really strongly recommend buying an ANL fuseholder. ANL fuses are not designed to be attached like that.

 

[John Frum]

OP after doing the math I think you should use the 125 amp version of 187 series.
1000 watts inverter rating / 0.8 conversion efficiency / 12.8 volts nominal * 1.25 fuse headroom factor = 122.0703125 amps.
Assuming you are using correct wire size.
reference

 

[lopicma]

Isn't there a website or app that I can plug in all my components and their sizes, and it spits out the correct fuses and breakers and wire sizes?

Electricity really is voodoo science... and it shouldn't be.

 

[Bob142]

These might help. Consider your circuits “critical circuits”.

Part 1: Choosing the Correct Wire Size for a DC Circuit - Blue Sea Systems

Engineering high quality marine electrical components for safety, reliability and performance

www.bluesea.com

Part 2: Select a Fuse and Fuse Holder For Your DC Product Installation - Blue Sea Systems

Engineering high quality marine electrical components for safety, reliability and performance

www.bluesea.com

 

[John Frum]

Isn't there a website or app that I can plug in all my components and their sizes, and it spits out the correct fuses and breakers and wire sizes?

Electricity really is voodoo science... and it shouldn't be.

Not that I know of but the link in my previous post is pretty close.
The formula I gave you is not voodoo.
The 1.25 multiplier for fuses is as close to consensus as these things get.
Actually Renogy claims 90 percent efficiency for your inverter so you could use .9 for the fudge factor which will still round up to the same 125 amps.

 

[lopicma]

OK, I relocated that 200 amp fuse into its holder, and ran the battery down so far it tripped the inverter alert (nice feature). Still waiting on the Bussman breaker.

However, I am not getting a charge from the solar panel to the controller to the battery. I think it's the cheap-o charge controller (under $30). I think I am going to get one of the Renogy options, but of course there are 2!

Any opinions? Maybe I should be looking at another. (I realize this is a loaded question, but I'm getting actionable information on this thread).

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bob142]

I think I am going to get one of the Renogy options, but of course there are 2!

Are you looking at PWM controllers or MPPT?

 

[lopicma]

MPPT. Sorry I didn't clarify this.

 

[Bob142]

In the budget market the prevailing wisdom says go with an Epever MPPT over Renogy. Check out the two model types Will lists on his mobile solar website:

DIY Off Grid Solar Charge Controllers

Building a vehicle mounted solar power system? Let me help.

www.mobile-solarpower.com

(I have a Renogy Rover 30A MPPT that I bought used that seems to work fine but you really need the Bluetooth module as well. Some of us have had positive experiences with the Rovers while others have had terrible ones.)

If you want to go upmarket, look at the Victron SmartSolar controllers. They are also on Will's site.

 

[Supervstech]

With a 1500 watt heat gun there is really no question at all why the breaker is tripping.

What Are Surges | NEMA Surge protection Institute

www.nemasurge.org

Switching of Electrical Loads

The switching (on and off) and operation of certain electrical loads – whether due to intentional or unintentional operations – can be a source of surges in the electrical system. Switching surges are not always immediately recognized or disruptive as larger externally generated surges but they occur far more frequently. These switching surges can be disruptive and damaging to equipment over time. They occur as part of every day operations.

Sources of switching and oscillatory surges include:

• Contactor, relay and breaker operations
• Switching of capacitor banks and loads (such as power factor correction)
• Discharge of inductive devices (motors, transformers, etc.)
• Starting and stopping of loads
• Fault or arc initiation
• Arcing (ground) faults
• Fault clearing or interruption
• Power system recovery (from outage)
• Loose connections

Yup, the breaker is tripping because it is junk.
The OP stated he was testing on low... a 380W draw...
That inverter is incapable of drawing over 84 amps before it melts down. No way any load applied by it will trip a functional 100A breaker.

 

[kenkoh]

Isn't there a website or app that I can plug in all my components and their sizes, and it spits out the correct fuses and breakers and wire sizes?

Electricity really is voodoo science... and it shouldn't be.

My 2c - chart. I'm a complete novice also.

 

[New Member1]

Isn't there a website or app that I can plug in all my components and their sizes, and it spits out the correct fuses and breakers and wire sizes?

Electricity really is voodoo science... and it shouldn't be.

According to Will Prowse "200W for Beginners" fuses : (Inverter Watts / 12V) x 1.25 - e.g. You're 4.1666666666666 shy, Not counting any surge

 

[onemorebattery]

My 2c - chart. I'm a complete novice also.

I noticed there is no 2/0 wire in the fuse chart and that 1/0 is listed twice. I also notice 2/0 skipped over in the next section showing the lugs.

 

[kenkoh]

I noticed there is no 2/0 wire in the fuse chart and that 1/0 is listed twice. I also notice 2/0 skipped over in the next section showing the lugs.

I made the chart for myself to configure basic system. As I learn more I'll add to it. Right now trying to work on an app with my bro that spits out all the math base on what I need, unless someone here knows one that exist already.