Old Trace controller SW4024 proprietary button sequences to charge lifepo4 batteries. I Don't Know !! Can ou please help?

[oztusk]

Old Trace controller SW4024 proprietary button sequences to charge lifepo4 batteries. I Don't Know !! Can ou please help? It is currently set to charge FLA batteries. They are a maintenance nightmare.

 

[MikeInKingman]

Hope this helps:

https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/ev/swnwb3r34i2l.pdf

Best of luck.
Stay safe.

 

[E. Cho]

Old Trace controller SW4024 proprietary button sequences to charge lifepo4 batteries. I Don't Know !! Can ou please help? It is currently set to charge FLA batteries. They are a maintenance nightmare.

There is no LiFePO4 setting for this age of Trace inverter. Just use the Lead Acid function and customize the voltages and amps as you or LiFePO4 want in the areas of DC inverting and for AC charging. Disable Equalization by setting the time required to zero and the voltage to be same as your Max absorption or even at float voltage. Your Solar Charge Controller takes care of charging from solar panels and should also be user customizable. The battery type settings are usually just templates or suggested settings and don't matter as settings are usually customizable anyway.

If charging the LIFEPO4 via the Trace charger from an AC generator or grid, make sure your AC amps when converted to DC charging amps are set lower as DC charge amps, meaning, 30 amps 120V AC input is about 10-15 DC amps at 24V DC. Charging lower and slower is preferred by LiFePO4 though they can handle more.

It's all in the manual but may take rereading and settings exploring. All the button pushing is confusing and settings are not saved if the Trace loses power.

 

[oztusk]

There is a special place in hell for whomever invented the menu tree. The problem with most equity is is that I didn't design it.

 

[oztusk]

There is a special place in hell for whomever invented the menu tree. The problem with most equity is is that I didn't design it.

*Equipment

 

[dougbert]

I had a SW4024 that I used on FLA and on Tesla Model S modules. I simply modified the BULK/ABSORPTON/FLOAT and other registers to the proper tesla voltages

I have now loaned that inverter to a friend who is also using tesla modules

yes, the menu tree is bad, but it was one of the first on the market in its day in the late 90s

one sad part, was it lost all its setting when you dropped battery power

 

[RCinFLA]

Realize Trace microcontroller is 1980's technology. Program is stored in UVPROM, use the term 'firmware' loosely, it is more than 'firm'. The buttons controls are one step above Morse code.

The serial control adaptor SWCA they made actually converts serial cable data to button pushing sequences to control inverter. It fails the conversions button pushing sequence often and has to retry. Executing a remote-control sequence is very slow.

Also, for LFP battery, disconnect external temp sensor which disables lead-acid charge voltage temperature compensation.

It regulates battery charging current based on 120vac input amps, NOT battery current.

User menus


Setup Menus

 

[oztusk]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply.
Yes indeed we lost power once for 4 days when someone cut an underground wire with a shovel and shorted it. Believe the settings were dropped. Only got going again when I accidentally tried the correct 2 button push. Otherwise I dont dare experiment. Wondering if I can just replace this ancient converter with something moder6which will also last 40 years... And cost less than sky high. Thanks for sny suggestions

 

[dougbert]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply.
Yes indeed we lost power once for 4 days when someone cut an underground wire with a shovel and shorted it. Believe the settings were dropped. Only got going again when I accidentally tried the correct 2 button push. Otherwise I dont dare experiment. Wondering if I can just replace this ancient converter with something moder6which will also last 40 years... And cost less than sky high. Thanks for sny suggestions

In 2016 I switched from 24v to 48v by acquiring a Xantrex SW+5048 (120v) from 2005

it does remember its settings. Similar menu style

In 2021 I switched again to the XW Pro with 240v 6.8kw

The Xantrex is sitting in my basement forlorn

 

[Rocketman]

I replace the Trace inverter in my MotorHome with a Victron- Very Happy with that decision!

Coming up on 5 years - 3running it 24/7. Never misses a beat - except when we overload it and then it shuts down and 30-ish seconds later comes right back up and I think I hear it saying- hey stupid- you did it again… let’s not do that anymore…

 

[oztusk]

Would rather work in watts than amps at a variety of voltages.
Try this...
How many electron volts is the equivalent of one KWH?? off topic for sure but interesting enough to mention.

 

[oztusk]

Would rather work in watts than amps at a variety of voltages.
Try this...
How many electron volts is the equivalent of one KWH?? off topic for sure but interesting enough to mention.

Back to topic I was going to attempt paralleling lifepo4 with the old FLA. Without disabling the entire system, its about 10K$ worth of equipment that I couldnt replace. Any Eagle scout will tell you it can't be done. They heard that somewhere.
After taking things to that point, I would hypothetically remove the SLA units and dispose of them properly (to use an expression) unless I knew an alchemist who would change them to gold..
The system belongs to somebody else. It is essential yo them snd and I don't want to experiment with it. As for myself I could live without it, it wouldn't be the first time I've blown a precisely balanced item in the interest of discovery. Don't want to risk that in this instance.

Realize Trace microcontroller is 1980's technology. Program is stored in UVPROM, use the term 'firmware' loosely, it is more than 'firm'. The buttons controls are one step above Morse code.

The serial control adaptor SWCA they made actually converts serial cable data to button pushing sequences to control inverter. It fails the conversions button pushing sequence often and has to retry. Executing a remote-control sequence is very slow.

Also, for LFP battery, disconnect external temp sensor which disables lead-acid charge voltage temperature compensation.

It regulates battery charging current based on 120vac input amps, NOT battery current.

User menus
View attachment 202356

Setup Menus
View attachment 202357

 

[oztusk]

To >>>SolarWizard
Actually getting somewhere with the highlighted menus. Much clear than the 200 pages of Trace horsepoop. TY nd I'm anticipating good luck.

 

[RCinFLA]

When you parallel lead-acid and LFP cells, the LFP cells take most of the load until battery voltage gets down to about 2.08v per lead-acid cell (12.5v for 12v lead-acid battery). At that point the LFP is at about 3.15 vdc per cell so they are nearly spent.

So net effect is the lead-acid provides some reserve power at the low end of the gas tank.

 

[oztusk]

So they both deliver until only the FLA is doing
anything.?? Would the convertor attempt to inject more power into the bats? The generator is feeding the trace 220 idk how the charge current is regulated. Vant fathom this right now, sleep Time
Mu sub zero cee squared ee squarred over 2h.... That's alpha times the speed of light.
e as in electric charge, not Euler's e
Part of s larger expression.
This is an expansion of
"Sine 1 radian times alpa times the speed of light... "
This gets too deep to complete, or explain in a short time... and has definitely veered off topic.
Can justify it later.
What damage could I doother than blowing a 200 amp 24 volt fuse, were I to clamp 1200 ah of lifepo4 to the 1260 of FLA already on converter?
Set as it is isee the float going u to 29.4 and dont know if amps are regulated or what. Or how it was set up in past.
Enough said for now

 

[oztusk]

There is no LiFePO4 setting for this age of Trace inverter. Just use the Lead Acid function and customize the voltages and amps as you or LiFePO4 want in the areas of DC inverting and for AC charging. Disable Equalization by setting the time required to zero and the voltage to be same as your Max absorption or even at float voltage. Your Solar Charge Controller takes care of charging from solar panels and should also be user customizable. The battery type settings are usually just templates or suggested settings and don't matter as settings arLe usually customizable anyway.

If charging the LIFEPO4 via the Trace charger from an AC generator or grid, make sure your AC amps when converted to DC charging amps are set lower as DC charge amps, meaning, 30 amps 120V AC input is about 10-15 DC amps at 24V DC. Charging lower and slower is preferred by LiFePO4 though they can handle more.

It's all in the manual but may take rereading and settings exploring. All the button pushing is confusing and settings are not saved if the Trace loses power.

I was told that the limit for SLA was lower than what I would want for lifepo4. Pressing two buttons at once would remove the voltage ceiling.. maybe that's Allah's punishment for watching YooBoob instructionals.. Guy was not delivering a comprehensible conveyance. I should do what to do what? I hope you don't think I was looking for a lifepo4 one touch push-a-button auto setting for the voltage regulator on my neighbor's model A ford either..

 

[oztusk]

One thing I Don't Know is whether or not the Trace just raises the voltage until it's blasting enough energy into whatever it's charging to meet whatever amperage criteria you have set for it .. OR .. does it povide power at a specific voltage until the current dros to nil, and then on to the next thing.

 

[oztusk]

One thing I Don't Know is whether or not the Trace just raises the voltage until it's blasting enough energy into whatever it's charging to meet whatever amperage criteria you have set for it .. OR .. does it povide power at a specific voltage until the current dros to nil, and then on to the next thing.

QED My minimal experience with antique high tech conversion

 

[RCinFLA]

One thing I Don't Know is whether or not the Trace just raises the voltage until it's blasting enough energy into whatever it's charging to meet whatever amperage criteria you have set for it .. OR .. does it povide power at a specific voltage until the current dros to nil, and then on to the next thing.

Trace inverter is a LF frequency inverter. Instead of three level high frequency PWM'g for AC output done in modern inverters, it uses three low frequency transformers with secondaries of transformers connected in series (+/-15v/0v, +/-45v/0v, and +/-135v/0v) to make sinewave. It generates up to 27 step sinewave approximation.


LF grid-interactive hybrid inverters run in parallel with AC input. Just tweaking the PWM slightly regulates AC output voltage of inverter. LF inverters are inherently bi-directional, so if AC output of inverter is slightly lower than AC input voltage it will draw current for AC input to charge battery.

Conversely, if Inverter AC output voltage is slightly higher than AC input voltage it will draw from battery to source current to loads (supplementing AC input current) or push current to grid if inverter output current exceeds what is needed for ACout loads.

When grid collapses, there is a momentary overload of inverter for a few milliseconds causing pass-through relay to AC input to immediately release connection to AC input. At this point, battery power through inverter supplies ACout loads.

When AC input reappears, inverter slowly sync's again to AC input frequency/phase/voltage before closing pass-through relay again.

HF grid-interactive inverters do the same thing, except they must change mode in the battery to HV DC converter to switch from sourcing power to HV DC bus to sinking power from HV DC bus to charge battery. This takes a few milliseconds for DC to DC converter to switch modes, during which time there is no power supplied to HV DC node which runs AC output PWM switching unless there is AC input power to draw from.

 

[oztusk]

One type of equipment is heavy..
pure inductive
One type generates spikes at every digital current change..
Semiconductor controlled
One type is complex...
Voltage doubling/halving...
and
Ripple/Line filter arrays are not compact / impractical.
... To be continued...