Random power outage EG4 6500 split phase

[Adam De Lay]

Are you using both PV inputs on both your inverters? Do you know what the approx voltages are on the PV strings when the disconnects happen?

I'm still trying to troubleshoot my disconnects as well. Don't know if it's coincidental or not, but if I turn off my PV2 on my phase 1 inverter, the problems seem to stop. Might be wishful thinking as I cannot replicate the issue on-demand. Seems to be more prevalent in the early mornings and settles down in the afternoon.

 

[vanblokland]

Have 4 arrays of 8 - 400 watt panels. Two to each inverter. Have not notice voltage at time of outage. Since it happened recently, at that time just solar input. Here are current stats.

 

[Adam De Lay]

Ok. It's happened to me a few times today. Very overcast day and when I disconnected PV2 on inverter 1, the issues stopped. I did notice in Solar Assistant that all my PV arrays are floating around 90V after MPPT (which I know is the minimum voltage), so not sure if that has anything to do with it either. Might be grasping at straws, but it's getting annoying.

 

[Desertdwllr]

@vanblokland I wish I had a schematic, I didn't make this document, I read through it and made sure the n/g bond was removed with a multimeter after I removed the screw.

 

[vanblokland]

Update. Changes I made, removing screw and grounding in load panel did not resolve issue for me. Have replaced screw and grounding. Granted access to my Dessmoitor app to Signature Solar to see if we can find some answers. If I left the ground/neutral bonding screw out with out checking with them, it would void my warranty.

 

[Desertdwllr]

Update. Changes I made, removing screw and grounding in load panel did not resolve issue for me. Have replaced screw and grounding. Granted access to my Dessmoitor app to Signature Solar to see if we can find some answers. If I left the ground/neutral bonding screw out with out checking with them, it would void my warranty.

Good to know, I'm very curious what the suggest to correct the issue

 

[Adam De Lay]

I'm in the same boat. Send SS all the info they've requested regarding the issue. Waiting to see what they have to say.

 

[nc73]

There is no need to remove the NG screw. I don't have those issues.

 

[bones1]

Any updates on this?.

 

[Desertdwllr]

There is no need to remove the NG screw. I don't have those issues.

If you are running split phase on battery or solar without removing all but one of the N/G bond screws you are introducing multiple n/g returns. This can cause circulating current to flow between inverters. I have observed this to cause things to happen ie flickering lights etc. You are correct that you might not see any difference however this fixed my flickering lights issue stopped my random power outages and the F80 fault I was getting on another system I built. This could have been a coincidence as I have not put my N/G bond screw back in to see if the problems I had come back. However to your point, the removal of the N/G bond did not change any of the symptoms that some others are experiencing. I'm curious to find out what signature solar comes back with. I might apply an external jumper to recreate the N/G bond that would allow me to clamp with a meter to see if there is current flow under normal conditions and report back.

 

[MN_1963]

I am experiencing similar issues as well and working with signature solar, still no solution. I have split phase EG4 6500's with EG4 48v batteries. The system seems to not have this issue when in SBU or USB modes and SUB is OK at night time. However if the solar panels are producing power (no matter how much) and in SUB mode my system does a similar thing with the power turning off and on.
Right now I manually run the system by making sure I am not in SUB mode (battery State of Charge SOC at setting 12) in then morning, if it is I will switch to USB before the sun comes up and will switch back to SBU mode once the battery SOC are above setting 13. I have setting 13 5% above setting 12 so that I use as little of utility power as possible. This has been working for over a week, but would rather not have to operate the system this way and it does not get the full benefit.
I have not remove the N/G screw and the grounding is only on the AC input side, I am not sure if my issue is in the grounding due to the USB, SBU and SUB (night time) working OK. Its looking more and more like it is in the software.

 

[Adam De Lay]

So initially I thought my problem was only SUB mode when on grid bypass but I discovered a few days ago that it happens in SBU as well when in bypass. It only started happening after I hooked up both PV strings on both my inverters.

I started to notice a pattern that it seemed to happen more early morning when the sun came up or late afternoon when it was going down. It seemed like it was having problems when all 4 PV strings were around 90v while the Mppt was trying to find the best power point. Might be a coincidence but when I would disconnect pv2 on either inverter, the problems would stop. So right now I disconnected pv2 from my inverter 2 and am running they array through a Victron charge controller. Been doing this for a few days now and haven’t had any issues.

Where I live I get more cloudy days that not, so this problem was really bad when all 4 arrays were connected, but it’s only an issue when in grid-bypass.

 

[vanblokland]

I have two grid power feeds on my property which share a common ground. This is my setup,

 

[bones1]

the grounding is only on the AC input side

Can you clarify this statement, please?.

 

[MN_1963]

Can you clarify this statement, please?.

Replay # 11, Item 6 page 10 on the download on the link

Grounding and Bonding for MPP LV6548 and EG4 6500EX-48

Click on the orange download button above to get the document. This document shows how to handle grounding and bonding with the MPP LV6548 and EG4 6500EX-48 Warning 1) EG4 requires explicit permission from the distributer before removing the...

diysolarforum.com

 

[bones1]

Replay # 11, Item 6 page 10 on the download on the link

Grounding and Bonding for MPP LV6548 and EG4 6500EX-48

Click on the orange download button above to get the document. This document shows how to handle grounding and bonding with the MPP LV6548 and EG4 6500EX-48 Warning 1) EG4 requires explicit permission from the distributer before removing the...

diysolarforum.com

Thanks.

 

[Adam De Lay]

So initially I thought my problem was only SUB mode when on grid bypass but I discovered a few days ago that it happens in SBU as well when in bypass. It only started happening after I hooked up both PV strings on both my inverters.

I started to notice a pattern that it seemed to happen more early morning when the sun came up or late afternoon when it was going down. It seemed like it was having problems when all 4 PV strings were around 90v while the Mppt was trying to find the best power point. Might be a coincidence but when I would disconnect pv2 on either inverter, the problems would stop. So right now I disconnected pv2 from my inverter 2 and am running they array through a Victron charge controller. Been doing this for a few days now and haven’t had any issues.

Where I live I get more cloudy days that not, so this problem was really bad when all 4 arrays were connected, but it’s only an issue when in grid-bypass.

It's been almost 2 weeks since I've been running my 4th array off the Victron CC as opposed to being hooked up to PV2 on my second inverter. So far I haven't had a single grid drop out issue.

 

[Desertdwllr]

Are your panels grounded? I was having a discussion with someone and he brought up if an array is not grounded leakage voltage could build up and cause weird things to happen. I'll be going from 6 540watt panels to 12 in the next few weeks. I'll be wiring 2 arrays, 6 panels each. Just for testing I'm going to move my solar inputs to pv2 tonight on both my inverters. Currently running 3 in series, 1 array to pv1 on each inverter. What if you move a different array to pv2 to see if the problems returns?

 

[Adam De Lay]

Are your panels grounded? I was having a discussion with someone and he brought up if an array is not grounded leakage voltage could build up and cause weird things to happen. I'll be going from 6 540watt panels to 12 in the next few weeks. I'll be wiring 2 arrays, 6 panels each. Just for testing I'm going to move my solar inputs to pv2 tonight on both my inverters. Currently running 3 in series, 1 array to pv1 on each inverter. What if you move a different array to pv2 to see if the problems returns?

Some are and some aren't. The one string I have moved to the Victron isn't, but I still have other PV arrays that aren't grounded and still hooked up to my 6500s. I would assume if there's a voltage buildup problem, it wouldn't be isolated to just grid-bypass mode or even certain times of the day.
I've moved around several arrays between different PV connections and different inverters. Always seemed to be an issue with PV2 regardless of the inverter or the array.

Had a lot of comments that my voltage might be too low on the arrays but it's within the voltage operating limits dictated in the manual. So either the documentation is wrong, there's an issue with the mppt boards in both inverters or there's a firmware issue.

 

[Desertdwllr]

Some are and some aren't. The one string I have moved to the Victron isn't, but I still have other PV arrays that aren't grounded and still hooked up to my 6500s. I would assume if there's a voltage buildup problem, it wouldn't be isolated to just grid-bypass mode or even certain times of the day.
I've moved around several arrays between different PV connections and different inverters. Always seemed to be an issue with PV2 regardless of the inverter or the array.

Had a lot of comments that my voltage might be too low on the arrays but it's within the voltage operating limits dictated in the manual. So either the documentation is wrong, there's an issue with the mppt boards in both inverters or there's a firmware issue.

How frustrating... I'm hoping there is resolution soon for these systems. I was also considering running my inverters single phase instead of split. I'm probably a few months away from needing 240 volt. I haven't had any outages in a few weeks, makes troubleshooting more difficult

 

[Adam De Lay]

How frustrating... I'm hoping there is resolution soon for these systems. I was also considering running my inverters single phase instead of split. I'm probably a few months away from needing 240 volt. I haven't had any outages in a few weeks, makes troubleshooting more difficult

Yeah, it's extremely frustrating when you can't narrow down exactly what's happening (and why) so you can repeat on-demand to confirm. Unfortunately I still can't guarantee that I've come up with a successful workaround...

 

[JCSchwarb]

How frustrating... I'm hoping there is resolution soon for these systems. I was also considering running my inverters single phase instead of split. I'm probably a few months away from needing 240 volt. I haven't had any outages in a few weeks, makes troubleshooting more difficult

Hi @Desertdwllr - how did you make out with your installation and configuration updates? Can you summarize from the first issue in November to now? I am waiting for SS to respond on the issue of multiple ground loops on a 3x parallel split-phase installation (6 inverters total). I noticed at the beginning of this thread you were running both inverters in USE and had the voltage cranked into Li-ion range. The highest my LifePower4 rack of 10 will go is 53.65V. My first pair of inverters took a while getting the master to communicate and register the battery voltage, changed Ethernet and reset 05 to EG4 and USE and back to EG4 until the Master finally registered the battery SOC. Now my second unit is in USE and both are charging normally. Appreciate your experience and insight updates. Thanks -Jay

 

[Desertdwllr]

Hi @Desertdwllr - how did you make out with your installation and configuration updates? Can you summarize from the first issue in November to now? I am waiting for SS to respond on the issue of multiple ground loops on a 3x parallel split-phase installation (6 inverters total). I noticed at the beginning of this thread you were running both inverters in USE and had the voltage cranked into Li-ion range. The highest my LifePower4 rack of 10 will go is 53.65V. My first pair of inverters took a while getting the master to communicate and register the battery voltage, changed Ethernet and reset 05 to EG4 and USE and back to EG4 until the Master finally registered the battery SOC. Now my second unit is in USE and both are charging normally. Appreciate your experience and insight updates. Thanks -Jay

I like to tinker so that is a tall order! I have not had more than 2 inverters setup in split phase but I can imagine paralleling inverters causing headaches. My initial install was working fine until I connected solar panels to it... As soon as I did I started getting the random power outages for 3-5 seconds. I flashed the firmware in both inverters (when doing this make sure to disconnect the parallel cable and set both units to default parallel to save yourself issues) disconnected the communication cable from my EG4 Lifepower batteries and set my bulk charge to 57V and float to 56.5V. I then purchased solar assistant (game changer BTW) but still had random power outages. I then removed both N/G bonds (do not recommend if you do not have a N/G bonded sub panel, this causes issues) I have a jumper from Neutral output to ground and the inverters are happy. I have had one power outage in this configuration... It was first thing in the morning, batteries were about 15-20% and I turned on the coffee machine. I have since flashed the firmware in my batteries and connected them to my Raspberry Pi, I have changed my battery voltages to 55.5V bulk and 54V Float. I cannot stress how much solar assistant helps fine tune things. I use Solar assistant to maintain a battery charge rate now depending on the time of day. Learning from my system I built 3 others that are very similar but none of them have solar panels installed yet and none of them are having problems. With all that being said, let me try to simplify (my brain has a hard time with this)

• Powered up system, random flickering lights throughout the house, batteries communicating with inverters and Inv 1 set to EG4
• After hooking up solar panels, experienced random power outages for 3-5 seconds when batteries were at 100% I observed the red fault light on Inverter 1 when it would do this but it would not show a fault code.
• Flashed firmware in both inverters, set battery from EG4 to USER and set charge voltages
• Still experienced flickering lights and power outages arguably less frequent
• removed one N/G bond from Inverter 2
• Fixed my flickering lights, I have only had one power outage that happened around November 30th and batteries were around 15-20%

I have no idea if this is what you were looking for, I'm going to add how I would do it from scratch to avoid some of the issues I ran into in a separate thread. Another bonus using SA is you can change settings much easier from the app compared to the front panel of the inverters.

 

[JCSchwarb]

I like to tinker so that is a tall order! I have not had more than 2 inverters setup in split phase but I can imagine paralleling inverters causing headaches. My initial install was working fine until I connected solar panels to it... As soon as I did I started getting the random power outages for 3-5 seconds. I flashed the firmware in both inverters (when doing this make sure to disconnect the parallel cable and set both units to default parallel to save yourself issues) disconnected the communication cable from my EG4 Lifepower batteries and set my bulk charge to 57V and float to 56.5V. I then purchased solar assistant (game changer BTW) but still had random power outages. I then removed both N/G bonds (do not recommend if you do not have a N/G bonded sub panel, this causes issues) I have a jumper from Neutral output to ground and the inverters are happy. I have had one power outage in this configuration... It was first thing in the morning, batteries were about 15-20% and I turned on the coffee machine. I have since flashed the firmware in my batteries and connected them to my Raspberry Pi, I have changed my battery voltages to 55.5V bulk and 54V Float. I cannot stress how much solar assistant helps fine tune things. I use Solar assistant to maintain a battery charge rate now depending on the time of day. Learning from my system I built 3 others that are very similar but none of them have solar panels installed yet and none of them are having problems. With all that being said, let me try to simplify (my brain has a hard time with this)

• Powered up system, random flickering lights throughout the house, batteries communicating with inverters and Inv 1 set to EG4
• After hooking up solar panels, experienced random power outages for 3-5 seconds when batteries were at 100% I observed the red fault light on Inverter 1 when it would do this but it would not show a fault code.
• Flashed firmware in both inverters, set battery from EG4 to USER and set charge voltages
• Still experienced flickering lights and power outages arguably less frequent
• removed one N/G bond from Inverter 2
• Fixed my flickering lights, I have only had one power outage that happened around November 30th and batteries were around 15-20%

I have no idea if this is what you were looking for, I'm going to add how I would do it from scratch to avoid some of the issues I ran into in a separate thread. Another bonus using SA is you can change settings much easier from the app compared to the front panel of the inverters.View attachment 124889View attachment 124890View attachment 124891View attachment 124892View attachment 124893View attachment 124894View attachment 124895View attachment 124896View attachment 124897View attachment 124898

Very clean looking install! Thank you for the details. For clarification, appreciate your help unpacking a few details: 1) A parallel cable was mentioned when doing your flashing. I understood two units in split phase to not be in parallel. Parallel implying more than one inverter outputting voltage to a single phase. 2) Since your output panel is NG bonded, does this imply the system is not connected to an AC main panel with another NG bond? My understanding is the EG4 inverter bonds N and G when off and when in DC modes (battery or PV). When in mixed modes with supplementary AC input the bond is removed. Thus, for off-grid only, EG4 therefore indirectly implies to not place a NG bond in sub-panel since the inverter creates the loop. Note that when parallel systems are installed, the NG bond in multiple units becomes potentially problematic, I am waiting for an answer from SS on this concern. Coverage on this NGB topic is thin and needs more testing. 3) I observe different battery voltages being used by installers that override the default EG4 voltages. It is not clear to me the thinking on this. When I charge my LifePower4’s by EG4 or a stand alone LFP tuned charger, my voltages max out at 53.65. I am interested in knowing how the inverter responds when the batteries are in different states of charge/discharge. I would tend to think setting master inverter to EG4 and slave to USE and see what happens after a day of use, noting voltages after a full cycle. Not clear how the inverter shunts additional PV input when your batteries may be viewed as over charged.

Again, appreciate your time and help to the community. -Jay

 

[vanblokland]

Signature solar replaced both of my EG4-6500EX inverters. The new ones have different internal connections. Got them installed two days ago. Ran off solar and batteries first day. Limited sun yesterday so batteries only 68%. Last night when batteries hit 30% it automatically cut over to grid and started charging batteries. NO OUTAGES OR FLICKERING! Batteries charged to 100% from grid then switched back to battery power. Cautiously optimistic that things are working as advertised.