Solar Newbie - Help me design a system for my primary residence

[dwhipple99]

Team, I am looking for a little help and guidance to get started. I am a techie, with primarily a software engineering background, but some electrical and electronics background, so I am not totally ignorant, but I am definitely learning allot about the Solar market in the US right now. I have a 2500 sq. ft home/cabin in PA (16340) that I want to move to off-grid capable in phases over time so that I can not have to purchase all the required components at once. My house actually uses very little power relatively speaking, the largest two draws we have is an electric dryer, and a 220V well pump. My 12/15/23 to 1/15/24 electric bill has me using 1359 KWH used. Total for the last 12 months is 7614 with an average monthly use of 692.

All that said, I do want to build a bit oversized because I have several outbuildings including a garage and a horse barn I am providing power too also. I currently have a 4500 watt propane generator with a manual interlock switch to power the entire house when we have a power outage and it's worked fine. I want to start my path down power independence by installing a all-in-one inverter and a battery bank, so rather than having to manually switch over to the generator, we can do more like a 50 millisecond failover to the battery bank. That would be Phase I.

In Phase II, I would add the Solar panels and possibly additional batteries if needed. My little bit of research has me narrowing in on either the Sol-Ark 12k or 15K all in one or the Schneider system with several components but I am not exactly sure what yet. The Sol-Ark sounds and looks like it would be the easiest for a newbie like me to install, but I really like the ability of the Schneider to handle unbalanced loads and surges.. I eventually want to get where I have approx 18 - 400 watt panels charging the battery banks with an automatic failover from grid power to battery power when the grid goes down, and in addition, I want the generator to autostart with a remote 2 wire start when the batteries reach a certain level of charge. As I said, I want this in phases, so in Phase I if I could buy a set of batteries and an inverter that can ultimately control a generator, I can install that. I will use my existing generator initially to top of the batteries as required manually during power outages, and then I will add the Solar panels and an upgraded generator capable of APS. I also have 100 acres here, so I was thinking it would be much easier long term to do a ground mount system for the panels, but the solar companies I've spoken with all think I should put them on one of my pole buildings roofs.. Thoughts on this? I do have great and very clear southern exposure for either ground mount or rooftop mount.

So I am a little foggy on what would be the best system (I think either Sol-Ark or Schneider) and I am wondering if I am thinking about my phases correctly. I know I need the inverter and some batteries, do I need solar panels to get started? maybe I start with a smaller batter bank and a few solar panels and then add to the system over time?? Am I thinking about how to phase this in the best way?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.. thank you! My goal would be to spend somewhere between 5K and 15K in each phase, so I could do it out of pocket rather than a 25 year loan from a solar company..

 

[millsan1]

Given your parameters, especially $ in stages, I'd go inverter with some panels as stage 1, then batteries and additional panels in stage 2.

Reason is, I averaged your stages to $10k each. A rack of batteries is $8k.

A sol ark is north of $5k, I think more like $7.

 

[DIYrich]

I have a 15k with batteries and no solar. Got it for backup power. I will add solar after the addition is built. So starting with inverter and batteries works.

If you truly want off grid, then you have to design for worst case. You need 45kwh in the worst month for solar production. You will also need enough batteries for that (3 days of power).

Having a generator can be your plan B (1 day worth of batteries) or plan C (more than 3 days of bad weather).

Generally people start with solar first, as that has immediate payback. But if backup is a higher priority, then batteries are fine.

Plan your eventual system first. Buy and install that in phases. Start low on batteries. You can always add more later, and their prices are falling fast.

 

[dwhipple99]

Given your parameters, especially $ in stages, I'd go inverter with some panels as stage 1, then batteries and additional panels in stage 2.

Reason is, I averaged your stages to $10k each. A rack of batteries is $8k.

A sol ark is north of $5k, I think more like $7.

Thank you!

 

[dwhipple99]

Given your parameters, especially $ in stages, I'd go inverter with some panels as stage 1, then batteries and additional panels in stage 2.

Reason is, I averaged your stages to $10k each. A rack of batteries is $8k.

A sol ark is north of $5k, I think more like $7.

Thank you!

 

[dwhipple99]

I have a 15k with batteries and no solar. Got it for backup power. I will add solar after the addition is built. So starting with inverter and batteries works.

If you truly want off grid, then you have to design for worst case. You need 45kwh in the worst month for solar production. You will also need enough batteries for that (3 days of power).

Having a generator can be your plan B (1 day worth of batteries) or plan C (more than 3 days of bad weather).

Generally people start with solar first, as that has immediate payback. But if backup is a higher priority, then batteries are fine.

Plan your eventual system first. Buy and install that in phases. Start low on batteries. You can always add more later, and their prices are falling fast.

Thank you!

 

[DIYrich]

You might want to design your eventual system to be able to parallel 2 inverters. You may run them both, or you may keep one for immediate emergency replacement (primary inverter fails). In backup mode, you would only need to move the PV from the primary inverter to the backup. Then you can isolate/remove the primary inverter to fix it.

 

[dwhipple99]

Any opinion on Sol-Ark vs Schneider vs anyone else?? 12K vs 15k if I go Sol-Ark?

 

[DIYrich]

I'll let others who know the Schneider extol it's virtues. For sol-ark, get the 15k. More of everything, for just a little more $. Outback and eg4 18kpv are worth considering. Outback is a component system, so you can do just the inverter now, and add solar charge controller later.

I would do ground mount. Easier to install yourself and easier to maintain. You can do vertical install of bifacial panels with ground mount. Don't have to wipe off the snow.

 

[hwy17]

Any opinion on Sol-Ark vs Schneider vs anyone else??

I would look in two directions:

Off grid beasts:
Schneider XW Pro
Midnite Rosie

These are good at starting well pumps, but come with the downside that they can't use pass through breakers higher than 60A. This is limiting if you want things like an EV charger or electric stove. Paralleling gets complicated, and adds a lot of quirks.

New school 200A passthrough:
Sol Ark 15K
EG4 18kPV

These are not so good at starting well pumps, but they are both designed to try to by their sheer output. And they can pass through 200A which makes them easy to drop in front of your whole house electrical system and still have EV chargers, etc.

I like the old school off grid stuff, but I accept it's passthrough design limitations and don't mind them.

 

[DIYrich]

New school 200A passthrough:
Sol Ark 15K
EG4 18kPV

These are not so good at starting well pumps, but they are both designed to try to by their sheer output.

If you have well pump issues, you could put the main panel on the 15k or 18kpv, and put a separate inverter for the well pump (powered directly from the 48v battery). Should be minor enough load on the battery to not be an issue.

 

[dwhipple99]

I currently run my 220V well pump off a 4350 amp propane generator during outages. Wouldn't you think this would easily be handled by the Sol-Ark 15K?
Also, I've been monitoring the house with a Sense and I use very little power honestly. Today I've peaked at 3000watts..

 

[DIYrich]

I currently run my 220V well pump off a 4350 amp propane generator during outages. Wouldn't you think this would easily be handled by the Sol-Ark 15K?

High frequency inverters, like SA, have trouble with instantaneous high draws, like when a motor starts, especially when they are not supplying other loads. If the SA has trouble, putting a soft start on the circuit may help.

 

[peufeu]

I was thinking it would be much easier long term to do a ground mount system for the panels, but the solar companies I've spoken with all think I should put them on one of my pole buildings roofs.. Thoughts on this?

Ground installation:

- Potentially shadowed if there are trees or buildings around
- All panels at ground level, so you're limited to only 1 row
- Takes up space
- Aesthetically questionable
- Depends on terrain slope (best on the side of a hill facing South)

+ Much easier to DIY
+ Cheaper
+ No leaks in your roof
+ Can clean panels, remove snow, do checks and maintenance, all very easily
+ Can use crude manual "tracker" (ie, allow for two angles for summer and winter)

If you live in a climate with lots of snow, and you want PV electricity in the winter... then you pretty much have to put them on the ground. Production from a snow covered panel is zero... Unless you want to climb on an icy roof to clear snow...

Regarding choice of inverter:

If you want to go off grid, and still have power after one week of terrible weather, then you either need a generator, or massive oversized PV so one good day in a week of bad weather is enough to recharge your batteries. Generator is cheaper. In this case the role of the PV system is to save money on gas, save your ass if there is a gas shortage, and when the weather is good, produce a ton of extra power you don't know what to do with.

DEYE (Sol-Ark, and other brands selling DEYE) has 3 ports: grid, backup output, and generator. Some brands have only 2 ports, so where do you plug your generator is a question to consider.

Always consider hidden cost of accessories. For example Huawei hybrid inverters are nice and cheap. But if you want backup mode, that will need an extra box with a bunch of relays which is expensive and it ends up costing more than an all-in-one unit from another brand. And it is only compatible with its own brand of high voltage batteries which costs about one kidney.