Solaredge system not working properly?

[400bird]

On the south east, you can see the production increase as each panel come out from behind the tree.

South west production picks up later in the day, as expected.

I assume the one labeled NE is really NW?
It is odd that 4 of those panels ramp up earlier than the others.

Nothing in that graph stands out to me as wrong.

 

[Solarwedge]

On the south east, you can see the production increase as each panel come out from behind the tree.

South west production picks up later in the day, as expected.

I assume the one labeled NE is really NW?
It is odd that 4 of those panels ramp up earlier than the others.

Nothing in that graph stands out to me as wrong.

Sorry, you are right. NW it is.

Someone else said that there is a massive amount of voltage blocking.

Because you see the SE optimizers maxing out at 60 volts.

Because of the relationship between ampère, voltage and Watt, a panel/optimizer with max voltage can't work at max Watts.

This would be the case if some panels on SE side are in full sunlight while others are shaded.

 

[400bird]

What model are your optimizers? Some max out at 60 volts on the output..

It looks like there are lots of low panels while some are high. The current needs to be the same everywhere in the circuit, so if some shaded panels are producing nearly nothing and in series with the best producing ones, maybe that's everything this set up can do? There's got a to be a limit to how much imbalance the optimizers can handle. Tigo publishes 25%, I'm pretty sure Solar Edge does better than that.

Are all your panels on one string? That's how it is set up in the layout, but that may not be how they are on the roof.

 

[Solarwedge]

What model are your optimizers? Some max out at 60 volts on the output..

It looks like there are lots of low panels while some are high. The current needs to be the same everywhere in the circuit, so if some shaded panels are producing nearly nothing and in series with the best producing ones, maybe that's everything this set up can do? There's got a to be a limit to how much imbalance the optimizers can handle. Tigo publishes 25%, I'm pretty sure Solar Edge does better than that.

Are all your panels on one string? That's how it is set up in the layout, but that may not be how they are on the roof.

S440 optimizers that can go to 60 volts max.

It's one string, everything is connected.

Edit: thing is, I just can't wrap my head around the following. On a day with clear sky and no clouds, the system produces less in the morning than on a slightly clouded day.

Clear sky in the morning, no clouds. Look at the production at 10 AM for example:



And now a slightly clouded day:



Is there logic in this?

It seems to me that a significant amount of production is somehow lost in the morning on a sunny day.

 

[Ron-ski]

Is there logic in this

Yes, I explained this earlier, light diffusion due to the right sort of cloud cover will mean all panels get the same light level. This could boost the output as the whole system is working, where as on a sunny day only one side is working, and the other sides in the shade are dragging it all down.

Sounds like you would have been better off with multiple strings with separate MPPT controllers, so a totally different system to SolarEdge.

 

[Solarwedge]

Yes, I explained this earlier, light diffusion due to the right sort of cloud cover will mean all panels get the same light level. This could boost the output as the whole system is working, where as on a sunny day only one side is working, and the other sides in the shade are dragging it all down.

Ok thank you.

But would you say the design of my system is correct then?

One side "dragging down" another side doesn't sound like a good design to me.

 

[Quattrohead]

I have seen some people slagging off solar edge for having peculiarities possibly like you are experiencing. See if you can get any firmware updates and yeah that panel that has so much shading, you might just want to shitcan that one entirely.
Well this is funny, two people bitching about solaredge and I gave the answer to the other guy in this thread haha. Sorry but I'll leave it here for amusement purposes.

 

[Ron-ski]

Ok thank you.

But would you say the design of my system is correct then?

One side "dragging down" another side doesn't sound like a good design to me.

I'm no expert, so I wouldn't like to say, have you tried contacting SolarEdge support directly and seeing what their opinion is?

The system on my house is SolarEdge, and has worked well, doesn't really suffer with shading, just a couple of minor things that cause a little shading, was just told at the time 8 years ago it was the better system, and I liked the ability to see what each panel was doing.

Recently I installed a system on my double garage, which does get shading, but went with a Victron system and 4 strings, 2 string each parallel in to solar combiners, and this does appear to work well, better than I expected.

 

[Solarwedge]

Ok.

I think this issue is this.

My inverter needs 750 volts to start. This is no problem; there is always enough light on enough panels to start the inverter with the required 750 volts.

With diffuse sunlight there is no problem.

However, when you have a few panels in direct sunlight (like, 6) and a few in the shade (like, 7), the optimizers of the sunny panels will get stuck at 60 volts. This is not good, because then they cannot produce their max amount of watts. They get dragged down by the shady panels who don't produce a lot of watts at that moment.

So you always want to be safe and have 13 panels minimum in direct sunlight. Because with 13*60 you get 780 volts. And then they stay below 60 volts.

This is definitely not the case in my system. Which is bad because I bought Solaredge because the installer said it could handle shadows well. But my system can't.

I think this is the problem why my system produces so minimal on sunny mornings..

 

[Ron-ski]

I suggest you speak with SolarEdge support, they should be able look at the system and see what it's doing.

 

[400bird]

My inverter needs 750 volts to start

?
What's the model number?

 

[Solarwedge]

I suggest you speak with SolarEdge support, they should be able look at the system and see what it's doing.

Yes I did this and they referred me to the installer.

?
What's the model number?

It's 3 phase SE7K

 

[400bird]

It's 3 phase SE7K

Ah, understood. The US residential units run at 360ish volts.

You might improve production by swapping to 80 volt optimizers. I don't know if that would get you much.

However, when you have a few panels in direct sunlight (like, 6) and a few in the shade (like, 7), the optimizers of the sunny panels will get stuck at 60 volts. This is not good, because then they cannot produce their max amount of watts. They get dragged down by the shady panels who don't produce a lot of watts at that moment.

I don't think it is that they are getting stuck at 60 volts. But as those panels in the sun are the only ones producing any real power.
So, the sunny panels need to up the voltage and lower the current, while the shaded panels are dropping voltage to raise the current as the current is constant throughout the circuit.

Also, the system needs to hit that 750 volt number. They only way to do that is to crank the few producing optimizers as high as they can go.

If you swap to 80 volt optimizers, then you'd only need 10 panels in the sun to get max production out of each panel.
Again, I'm not sure if there's any real energy to gain here, there might not be much improvement possible.

 

[Solarwedge]

Ah, understood. The US residential units run at 360ish volts.

You might improve production by swapping to 80 volt optimizers. I don't know if that would get you much.

I don't think it is that they are getting stuck at 60 volts. But as those panels in the sun are the only ones producing any real power.
So, the sunny panels need to up the voltage and lower the current, while the shaded panels are dropping voltage to raise the current as the current is constant throughout the circuit.

Also, the system needs to hit that 750 volt number. They only way to do that is to crank the few producing optimizers as high as they can go.

If you swap to 80 volt optimizers, then you'd only need 10 panels in the sun to get max production out of each panel.
Again, I'm not sure if there's any real energy to gain here, there might not be much improvement possible.

Thank you. Sorry if I didn't express myself clearly. But what you wrote is exactly what I meant.

Is there any way of knowing if 80 volt optimizers will improve the situation significantly before you actually replace the current 60 volt ones?

And do you think the installer should have known about this issue and should have brought it to my attention?

The way I see it, the next 10-20 years I have a suboptimal working system on sunny mornings. That's a lot of missed production..

If I had known about this beforehand, I would have bought a system with micro inverters, haha.

 

[400bird]

Thank you. Sorry if I didn't express myself clearly. But what you wrote is exactly what I meant.

Is there any way of knowing if 80 volt optimizers will improve the situation significantly before you actually replace the current 60 volt ones?

My best guess it will help 25%
(60/80=125%)
But only for those few panels that are hitting 60 volts.

And do you think the installer should have known about this issue and should have brought it to my attention?

They may have included this in their expected production numbers.

 

[Solarwedge]

I think this guy explains the samen phenomenon on his website:

SolarEdge Inverter and Optimiser Review

It’s been a couple of years since I first wrote this SolarEdge inverter review. It started out nice. We installed over 3000 SolarEdge optimisers, and I had a tour of the SolarEdge HQ in Israel and had…

www.mcelectrical.com.au

Start reading at "PRODUCTION LOSS AND “BLOCKING”.

I think this is my issue..!

 

[Ron-ski]

Certainly sounds like it, and although I didn't read the full article it doesn't make good reading for SolarEdge. Glad I chose Victron for my garage install. Can see now why you didn't get anywhere with SE Support, they know the problem but won't admit it, I'd better not say anything else or the lawyers will be on to me.