Speed controller

[gouthro2002]

Hello
I am very new to this and have many blank spots, so I seek your patience if what I am saying doesn’t seem to make sense. I am trying to figure things out as i go along.

I am going to run a 30 lb thrust trolling motor with a 12v 100ah battery on a canoe. Someone mentioned that the motor can demand a lot of energy on starting up. So, a bit more reading lead me to the existence of something called a speed controller. Apparently it can rectify this problem. And, if i understand it correctly, this particular one will even allow me to remote control the motor. Am i right in this understanding? I will try to post a link to the one i am looking at on Amazon:
Thanks joe

LCD Smart Digital Display 0~100% Adjustable 60a Pwm Dc Motor Speed Controller Timing Reversible Remote Control 12v 24v 36v 48v,Industrial Control​

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About this item​

• Can be set to start slowly
• LCD screen with backlight, can display working time, percentage of rotation speed, current mode, forward rotation, reverse rotation status
• Touch switch to switch forward and reverse, jog acceleration and deceleration solve the problem of the traditional potentiometer
• Multiple limit modes available
• Two modes, manual and automatic, are available

See more

 

[BobR]

Those units mostly state 60 amps. That would be good for a 30lb. trolling motor; about 30 amp at full power. For around $30.00.

You might want to google 'PWM for trolling motor'.

 

[BobR]

If your trolling motor has settings for different speeds it uses resistors to control the power to the motor. At top speed it has no resistors in the circuit.
If you install the pwm on the unmodified trolling motor you set the trolling motor controll for full/top speed.

 

[jdege]

There's a fundamental difference between controlling a motor with resistors vs with PWM that has huge implications for battery life that hasn't been mentioned.

Adding resistance inline lowers the voltage presented to the motor and lowers it's speed - but it doesn't lower the current draw. Current flowing through a resister converts energy to heat.

PWM cycles the current on and off on a rapid cycle.

With lower speeds PWM draws less energy from the battery. With resisters always draw full power, then waste most of it.

 

[Browneye]

IMO not necessary, and I highly doubt those are waterproof.
I've never heard of anything more elaborate than a simple motor to battery connection for this application.

 

[BobR]

IMO not necessary, and I highly doubt those are waterproof.
I've never heard of anything more elaborate than a simple motor to battery connection for this application.

PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) Overview​

PWM devices can be used to change a 5 forward/3 reverse set speed motor, like the NV Series motor, into a variable speed trolling motor. This will lead to increased efficiency leading to longer battery life and allowing you to spend more time on the water using your motor. Please continue reading to learn more on this subject!

https://newportvessels.zendesk.com/...056225814-PWM-Pulse-Width-Modulation-Overview​

 

[BobR]

Hello
I am very new to this and have many blank spots, so I seek your patience if what I am saying doesn’t seem to make sense. I am trying to figure things out as i go along.

I am going to run a 30 lb thrust trolling motor with a 12v 100ah battery on a canoe. Someone mentioned that the motor can demand a lot of energy on starting up. So, a bit more reading lead me to the existence of something called a speed controller. Apparently it can rectify this problem. And, if i understand it correctly, this particular one will even allow me to remote control the motor. Am i right in this understanding? I will try to post a link to the one i am looking at on Amazon:
Thanks joe

LCD Smart Digital Display 0~100% Adjustable 60a Pwm Dc Motor Speed Controller Timing Reversible Remote Control 12v 24v 36v 48v,Industrial Control​

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 

• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  

See All Buying Options


Add to List

---

About this item​

• Can be set to start slowly
• LCD screen with backlight, can display working time, percentage of rotation speed, current mode, forward rotation, reverse rotation status
• Touch switch to switch forward and reverse, jog acceleration and deceleration solve the problem of the traditional potentiometer
• Multiple limit modes available
• Two modes, manual and automatic, are available

See more

If your trolling motor is a variable speed instead of set speeds; it already has a pwm as it's control.

 

[BobR]

IMO not necessary, and I highly doubt those are waterproof.
I've never heard of anything more elaborate than a simple motor to battery connection for this application.

FPV10333 - Motor PWM 50A (V2)

"Our new PWM comes with a forward/reverse switch to make getting in and out of tight spaces a whole heap easier, voltmeter so you can keep an eye on your battery levels and waterproof connections instead of Anderson plugs. It also features our standard magnetic kill switch and throttle control on a dial.

Increased runtimes can be achieved with a PWM as it pulses the exact amount of power needed to achieve the required speed whereas the standard throttle on the motor controls speed by passing the power through resistors which burns off the excess energy and thereby decreasing the amount of power going to the motor. There is no difference in efficiency at full throttle running with or without PWM but the lower the throttle, the greater the difference the PWM makes to increasing your runtime. The other bonus of course is having proportional throttle control which allows for precise adjustments to speed which is handy in situations such as when trolling lures. The PWM box is weather and splash proof only. Do not submerge!"

Motor PWM 50A (V2)

FPV10333 - Motor PWM 50A (V2) <br /> <br /> Our waterproof PWM (V2) (pulse width modulator) is installed between the battery and motor and is used to...

www.mariner-sails.com

 

[Browneye]

Seems like a better solution.

 

[BobR]

Seems like a better solution.

I have assembled my own pwm controller and included it (pwm) and other controls 'Nav. /anchor lights' into a weather resistant control box. It is not waterproof; if it gets submerged I have a lot more problems than my pwm.
I have a shunt for amps and volts included . All for approx. $50.00

Many Kayakers are using pwms.

 

[gouthro2002]

Thanks for all the replies and the resources offered. I am not too concerned about getting more time out of the battery. What mainly interests me in this is the possibility to control the motor from the pwm controller, rather than having to hold my hand on the handle all the time. I read the article linked earlier and I think that this device will allow me to do this but i am bot sure. Am i right in thinking this?

 

[BobR]

Thanks for all the replies and the resources offered. I am not too concerned about getting more time out of the battery. What mainly interests me in this is the possibility to control the motor from the pwm controller, rather than having to hold my hand on the handle all the time. I read the article linked earlier and I think that this device will allow me to do this but i am bot sure. Am i right in thinking this?

What motor do you have.

 

[gouthro2002]

I don’t have one, yet. But, it will probably be the minn kota

Endura C2 Electric Motor​

https://minnkota.johnsonoutdoors.com/us/shop/freshwater-trolling-motors/endura

About 30 lbs thrust

 

[BobR]

It should work just fine.

 

[gouthro2002]

It should work just fine.

Sorry bob, not sure what you are referring to. Do you mean that i can remotely control this engine with the proposed charge controller?
Thanks joe

 

[BobR]

Sorry bob, not sure what you are referring to. Do you mean that i can remotely control this engine with the proposed charge controller?
Thanks joe

The pwm you indicated (not a charge controller)

"LCD Smart Digital Display 0~100% Adjustable 60a Pwm Dc Motor Speed Controller Timing Reversible Remote Control 12v 24v 36v 48v,Industrial Control"​

This should work with the Minn Kota enduro trolling motor that you linked to.

The Minn Kota enduro is a brushed motor which is what that the pwm controller is designed to control and is within the specs. for that control.

The remote has foward / reverse and speed control.

You would keep the trolling motor set to full speed and control speed and direction with the control/remote.

You need to stop the motor before reversing, forward to reverse, you reverse using the pwm/remote

 

[eagleray]

I've just finished shooting a video (not released yet) where I test this exact setup without a PWM for a full discharge at lowest throttle and again at full-throttle on both the test bench and on the lake. I can confirm a few things:

A 30lb. troller will peak a little over 30 amps if you throw it full from zero, but my Minn Kota Endura settles at ~25amps continuous and trails off slightly to low 20s as the battery discharges. At lowest throttle, it pulls about 6 amps continuous. Contrary to popular belief, the resistor circuit built into cheap trollers doesn't eat the same total power at full throttle versus low throttle. It eats about 1/4 power and it would probably move your canoe about 1/4 the speed (depending upon hull shape/total weight/propeller type/etc.).

I assume a PWM gives a slight efficiency gain, but the large range gain theory is mostly a myth since I think most people are full-throttling these tiny motors most of the time anyway. I'll be verifying PWM versus no PWM output soon by purchasing a handful of brands, and I also plan to build a few PWMs from scratch too.

All that said, a PWM is generally a good idea IMO for lots of reasons:
1) Installation gets you familiar with the internals of your troller's power head.
2) Installation exposes how easy it is to extend throttle control forward as far as you want (especially convenient in a canoe).
3) Having access to all speeds from 0% to 100% rather than a ratchet-handle with just 5 stops is a plus.
4) The ratchet handle on my Endura is already broken after only 3 months of testing. Reverse level 3 no longer works. A good PWM knob is less likely to break so easily, I think.

 

[jdege]

I don't agree that most people are full throttling their electric motors most of the time.

Half power gives you four times the range. Full power is used on electric boats only rarely.

 

[gouthro2002]

I've just finished shooting a video (not released yet) where I test this exact setup without a PWM for a full discharge at lowest throttle and again at full-throttle on both the test bench and on the lake. I can confirm a few things:

A 30lb. troller will peak a little over 30 amps if you throw it full from zero, but my Minn Kota Endura settles at ~25amps continuous and trails off slightly to low 20s as the battery discharges. At lowest throttle, it pulls about 6 amps continuous. Contrary to popular belief, the resistor circuit built into cheap trollers doesn't eat the same total power at full throttle versus low throttle. It eats about 1/4 power and it would probably move your canoe about 1/4 the speed (depending upon hull shape/total weight/propeller type/etc.).

I assume a PWM gives a slight efficiency gain, but the large range gain theory is mostly a myth since I think most people are full-throttling these tiny motors most of the time anyway. I'll be verifying PWM versus no PWM output soon by purchasing a handful of brands, and I also plan to build a few PWMs from scratch too.

All that said, a PWM is generally a good idea IMO for lots of reasons:
1) Installation gets you familiar with the internals of your troller's power head.
2) Installation exposes how easy it is to extend throttle control forward as far as you want (especially convenient in a canoe).
3) Having access to all speeds from 0% to 100% rather than a ratchet-handle with just 5 stops is a plus.
4) The ratchet handle on my Endura is already broken after only 3 months of testing. Reverse level 3 no longer works. A good PWM knob is less likely to break so easily, I think.

Let me know when you release that video! As i said i am mostly just interested in hands free running of the motor. But to get that i need to know how to connect it up
Joe

 

[eagleray]

I don't agree that most people are full throttling their electric motors most of the time.

Half power gives you four times the range. Full power is used on electric boats only rarely.

Normally I'd agree, but with a 30lb? When I take it out in 5mph winds, it struggles. For me, it's full-throttle all the time or I go nowhere.