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This Might Be The Fastest Way to Double U.S. Grid Capacity

crossy

crossy

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This popped up on another forum, interesting concept.
  • The U.S.' aging infrastructure is struggling to keep pace with the rapid growth of renewable energy.
  • IEEE: improvements and replacements to the grid’s 8,000 power-generation units; 600,000 circuit miles of AC transmission lines and 70,000 substations to support increased renewable energy and battery storage could cost $2.5 trillion.
  • Upgrading existing lines using advanced conductors actually costs less than half what a new power line would cost because it does away with much of the construction spending.
Read more: -https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/This-Might-Be-The-Fastest-Way-to-Double-US-Grid-Capacity.html

2024-02-27_cqenvbdaz4.jpg
 
They should harden against CME at the same time.

Existing wires have 50+ years of demonstrated reliability and maintenence requirements. I'd want to see 10 years of real world use on a demonstration project before committing to replacing lines.
 
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"Advanced conductors"? What advanced conductors? We're still using aluminum and copper. There have been some minor improvements to aluminum alloys but mostly that's for keeping corrosion out of connections.
 
teal95 said:
"Advanced conductors"? What advanced conductors? We're still using aluminum and copper. There have been some minor improvements to aluminum alloys but mostly that's for keeping corrosion out of connections.
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Arent most power lines actually steel? I remember something about steel power lines and it being a reason for horrible transmission loss.
 
teal95 said:
"Advanced conductors"? What advanced conductors? We're still using aluminum and copper. There have been some minor improvements to aluminum alloys but mostly that's for keeping corrosion out of connections.
Click to expand...

For the TL;DR: This new conductor essentially replaces the steel backbone with carbon-fiber or other alloy that has similar/better strength as the steel core with much smaller cross-section area and it replaces the circular aluminum strands with trapezoid shaped ones for a tighter packing (similar to how windings on EV motors use rectangular cross-section wires over circular ones).

At least this is the idea and the claim is that this new "reconductoring" of existing infrastructure gives a bigger bang for your buck.
 
Doesn't the skin effect become prominent on the typical length of high voltage transmission lines?
 
teal95 said:
Doesn't the skin effect become prominent on the typical length of high voltage transmission lines?
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GregTR said:
For the TL;DR: This new conductor essentially replaces the steel backbone with carbon-fiber or other alloy that has similar/better strength as the steel core with much smaller cross-section area
Click to expand...

Aluminum conductors are twisted around core.

To reduce skin effect, you want larger cross-section core. Skin depth at 60 Hz, about 2/3 or (1 - 1/e) of current travels in the outer 8mm.

A larger diameter annular ring would be desired. Same cross section but thinner annular ring would reduce loss a bit. Same thickness and larger diameter would improve capacity significantly.
 
teal95 said:
Doesn't the skin effect become prominent on the typical length of high voltage transmission lines?
Click to expand...
Yep. And a larger diameter (more "skin") for the same weight would therefore be a big win.

However, a way to avoid the issue completely is switch to HVDC, which is happening now in many places.
 
How about doing it the way we do, boost voltage and reduce current.

Assuming the towers are sound (not about to collapse due to pigeon poop like our bridges), evaluate each run to see if longer or otherwise higher voltage insulators can be used (or if other clearances are limiting factor.)

Change transformers for double voltage to allow 4x power transmission.

Maybe add some smarts for arcing detection, GFCI, which wasn't available when originally built.
 
teal95 said:
"Advanced conductors"? What advanced conductors? We're still using aluminum and copper. There have been some minor improvements to aluminum alloys but mostly that's for keeping corrosion out of connections.
Click to expand...
Rtfurl:
/*
Most of our existing power lines consist of a steel core surrounded by strands of aluminum.

In reconductoring, advanced conductors replace the steel core with a core made of a composite material, such as carbon fiber that’s not only lighter but stronger
*/

Not sure I’m buying it, but that’s what they are saying.
 
billvon said:
Yep. And a larger diameter (more "skin") for the same weight would therefore be a big win.

However, a way to avoid the issue completely is switch to HVDC, which is happening now in many places.
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I thought the high voltage DC vs AC was settled long ago when Nicola Tesla won over Edison so that's why we have AC transmission lines now everywhere.
Where is this happening, link?
 
"The grounding system at Celilo consists of 1,067 cast iron anodes buried in a two-foot (60 cm) trench of petroleum coke, which behaves as an electrode, arranged in a ring of 2.0 miles (3,255 m) circumference at Rice Flats (near Rice, Oregon), which is 6.6 miles (10.6 km) SSE of Celilo. "

What is grounding system for?
Does this use Earth as one of the conductors? (Did they research whether it might impact mating habits of earthworms?)

Sylmar Ground Return Electrode | The Center for Land Use Interpretation

The ground return electrode for the 850-mile Pacific Intertie DC line consists of 24 silicon-iron alloy poles, anchored in cement and planted into the ocean floor, one mile off of Will Rogers State Beach. The array is connected by a pair of buried wires to the shore (accessed through vaults next...
clui.org clui.org

"The ground return electrode for the 850-mile Pacific Intertie DC line consists of 24 silicon-iron alloy poles, anchored in cement and planted into the ocean floor, one mile off of Will Rogers State Beach. The array is connected by a pair of buried wires to the shore (accessed through vaults next to the parking lot at Gladstones Restaurant on Pacific Coast Highway), and eventually to the Sylmar Converter Station, the official terminus of the 500,000 volt DC transmission line. Long distance DC lines require these ground return electrodes at either end, to carry the current through the ground in the event of some system anomaly."

So only occasionally disturbs earthworms.

www.ladwpintake.com

Improving Power Reliability by Land and Sea

By Paola Adler The last leg of a power reliability project to strengthen an essential transmission line connecting the Pacific Northwest to Southern California has been completed. Spearheaded by LA…
www.ladwpintake.com www.ladwpintake.com

"upgraded to improve power reliability and capacity"

Carries operating current under some conditions, not just fault current until shutdown?
 
So we really want aluminum tubes with a structural cable (steel or carbon fiber) in the middle to support it?

We can't go any higher voltage than they're already using. We're already right up against ionizing the air.

In the Edison/Tesla time there wasn't an easy way to up/down covert DC voltages. We can do that now with power electronics.
 
Yes, tubes. So braid aluminum wires around steel cable.

www.deangeliprodotti.com

ACSR conductor (Aluminum Conductor Steel Reinforced) / ACSR-AW - De Angeli Prodotti

ACSR conductor is the type of conductor most used worldwide and it is composed of a steel core and one or more hard drawn aluminum layers.
www.deangeliprodotti.com www.deangeliprodotti.com


I think ionization isn't due to voltage, rather voltage gradient. Larger diameter should help with that.

3GW is a lot of power to step up/down.
 
45North said:
I thought the high voltage DC vs AC was settled long ago when Nicola Tesla won over Edison so that's why we have AC transmission lines now everywhere.
Where is this happening, link?
Click to expand...
Tesla won back then because there was no electronics for DC conversion. Today we can convert DC to DC at different voltages or AC. (take a look at your inverter).
 
And you don't have to synchronize the grids together.
The United Kingdom is connected to France via a DC link purely so that they didn't have to synchronize the isolated UK grid to the European grid.
 
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