JohnGalt1717
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2021
- Messages
- 112
Narrative: We are increasingly approaching a period where we can recover the 13% loses of DC to AC to DC conversion with heat pumps that will run off DC and even now EV car chargers that are becoming affordable that can do 12kW DC/DC charging. The issue right now is that we have only access to 2 DC voltages: Direct Solar panel to device, and Battery. We have no way to merge these two, and thus we end up having to allocate solar panels to a device (i.e. heat pump) and then it falls back to AC when the solar panel power drops too low and worse, these devices can't use battery to run because batteries are still stuck at 48V and thus require multi-phase boost converters to get to the 400V that these devices require.
What am I Proposing: All All-in-One and hybrid inverters that support panels, battery and AC have an internal bus that runs at ~400VDC. This should be exposed as an output that can be hooked into a DC breaker box that is din rail 500V max breakers, break on positive with shared negative that works with parallelized units contributing.
Why: By doing so, now that heat pump can be powered directly from the inverter at maximum efficiency because all solar panels can contribute, the battery can contribute and only when those aren't available, the inverter itself falls back to AC to generate the 400VDC bus and thus drives the panel and thus the DC only devices. And even in this worst case, if done right with a good PFC and high frequency Boost/Buck, will be vastly more efficient than any alternatives, while battery and solar panels will be drastically more efficient in every scenario. This creates the opportunity for highly efficient 400VDC backbones in house that are hybrid or off-grid, and thus saves MASSIVE power waste.
This opens up highly efficient DC electric (or heat pump) hot water heaters that save us 13%, heat pumps for heating and cooling that saves us 13%, induction cook tops, resistance ranges, and EVs all saving 13%. And these are our biggest loads and thus the most costly in waste right now. By giving us this 400VDC backbone and partnering with other companies to expose the existing 400V bus on their devices (i.e. all inverter heat pumps have a 400V bus already that just needs to be tapped) we can both save money on these devices themselves, and save money every single moment they're on by getting back our 13%.
Then, start selling us heat pumps, hot water elements, and EV DC/DC chargers for our cars as a start.
Bonus Points: Start working to create a standard that takes the 400V bus and do similar to USB-C PD negotiation (with a converter for USB-C PD) that starts at 5V for electrical outlets from the 400V rail at the breaker panel, and will increase to 400V based on what the device requests. If I could run all of my DC devices this way, I would incrementally switch all other circuits over time to DC only. And the result would be further efficiency gains, while also being safer because of a system similar to how EV chargers work: Pull at all, and it drops to 5V standby, and only increases on good connection and negotiated voltage with full closed loop +/- to panel with digital ground and arc fault. If you do this right, you could create an entire industry and switch to DC, and as the leaders of an international standard, could result in a massive win for you. This would be great, but not strictly necessary to really move the goal posts forward for your inverter designs with a 400V output bus.
What am I Proposing: All All-in-One and hybrid inverters that support panels, battery and AC have an internal bus that runs at ~400VDC. This should be exposed as an output that can be hooked into a DC breaker box that is din rail 500V max breakers, break on positive with shared negative that works with parallelized units contributing.
Why: By doing so, now that heat pump can be powered directly from the inverter at maximum efficiency because all solar panels can contribute, the battery can contribute and only when those aren't available, the inverter itself falls back to AC to generate the 400VDC bus and thus drives the panel and thus the DC only devices. And even in this worst case, if done right with a good PFC and high frequency Boost/Buck, will be vastly more efficient than any alternatives, while battery and solar panels will be drastically more efficient in every scenario. This creates the opportunity for highly efficient 400VDC backbones in house that are hybrid or off-grid, and thus saves MASSIVE power waste.
This opens up highly efficient DC electric (or heat pump) hot water heaters that save us 13%, heat pumps for heating and cooling that saves us 13%, induction cook tops, resistance ranges, and EVs all saving 13%. And these are our biggest loads and thus the most costly in waste right now. By giving us this 400VDC backbone and partnering with other companies to expose the existing 400V bus on their devices (i.e. all inverter heat pumps have a 400V bus already that just needs to be tapped) we can both save money on these devices themselves, and save money every single moment they're on by getting back our 13%.
Then, start selling us heat pumps, hot water elements, and EV DC/DC chargers for our cars as a start.
Bonus Points: Start working to create a standard that takes the 400V bus and do similar to USB-C PD negotiation (with a converter for USB-C PD) that starts at 5V for electrical outlets from the 400V rail at the breaker panel, and will increase to 400V based on what the device requests. If I could run all of my DC devices this way, I would incrementally switch all other circuits over time to DC only. And the result would be further efficiency gains, while also being safer because of a system similar to how EV chargers work: Pull at all, and it drops to 5V standby, and only increases on good connection and negotiated voltage with full closed loop +/- to panel with digital ground and arc fault. If you do this right, you could create an entire industry and switch to DC, and as the leaders of an international standard, could result in a massive win for you. This would be great, but not strictly necessary to really move the goal posts forward for your inverter designs with a 400V output bus.
