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True or False: Tying a knot in a power cord "provides protection against lightning"

Right, it's a $500 investment if you have 4 strings. Seems a little too pricey at least for poors like me.
yes but the one time when i fired my inverter it cost me about 600 total by the time I shipped it to the states, and got two boards replaced and then shipped back it was probably about 600 or so. now that I know what goes into swapping the boards i would do it myself which would save me the shipping about 100 one way, but still that leaves between 350-400 for the cards.
 
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"When you see these round things on cables, sometimes all that’s inside is a knot, sometimes it’s a metal sleeve (ferrite core)."
AS far as I know those ferite things just suppress noise from high speed switching power supplies and such

These I do see a lot.
I have a box full of them salvages from lighting jobs.
I add them to generators because they don't do any harm.
When you have something with a high powered saturated core exciter circuit that can provide a serious inductive kick back I like to add something there to protect modern electronics from nasty old arc inducing machines.

In the old days we used to have welding disconnects around the inside of the plants.
Welders would lay out a lot of welding cable from place to place to reach their jobs and the welder machines themselves might be on a different floor.
In those days I remember welders would often have knots tied on welding cables because it was easier to do than constantly go to welder and adjust the settings on the machine...

The welder was the sacred cow of the maintenance dept.
He didn't carry his own whips...
He did nto clean his mess..
And if you wanted to mess with them untie his cable knots lol ( or loop his cables around girder or beam lol )

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These might blow up in the event of a real lighten strike.
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They have a very little in the way of power dissipation capacity.
A true arrestor as shown in a previous post in this thread is for that.
I don;t know what is in them but I suspect its a BIG MOV...
They die too.
Its not a common thing but I change them from time to time when they fail, usually they fail shorted
 
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Regarding comments above about lightning rods (and associated grounding cables) on structures, it is my understanding that their purpose is to 'drain' the surrounding static electricity into the ground to prevent the large potential that can otherwise result in a large discharge of differential energy - lightning. They are not designed to take a lightning hit on a structure and direct it to ground. As pointed out above, that would destroy (melt) all of the conductors/rods.
 
lighting rod and ground grid is designed to catch a bolt of lightning and direct it from a buildings power system.
Here is a lightening arrestor these used to be on the outside of a lot of service connections in industrial plants and not only would the building, the switch yard and the steel work, fences be grounded to prevent touch potential, but an actually strike would be directed to ground to prevent damage and fires inside the structure.

Here's another type of arrestor designed to protect a building from a hit.
Its not as effective at the MOV type but its fully able to clamp the voltage down to a level that will limit damage.

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This video shows a typical strike near the infrastructure....
But not at the exact location.
If the strike had hit the pool there would have been damage.

What we see here is the current from the strike travelling around the area seeking out paths to ground to discharge that are better than the point of contact.
Maybe the hit was on a pole line within the area...
But if your grounding systems in the area are not up to snuff that energy will travel to other grounding rods through metal around the area.
Pools, if built to code will have all the steel supports grounded.
Fences maybe not grounded well we don't know....

In a switch yard you know the fence is going to be tied to the ground grid and everything bonded together ( like gates and doors.. )

in this video we can see an arc but its not at all clear what is going on or how its travelled this far.

In someplace I have seen ground plates in lakes because it was the best way to ground a power system on a rocky area.
I don't know what is happening here.
I suspect we see a strike following a ground cable to a plate in this body of water and the resulting steam explosion in the water...
I suspect because I cant be sure.
Maybe there is something else filmed here....
Maybe thats a shock tube leading to water and someone is blasting rocks in that channel.

Youtube videos can be hard to trust.
 
I had an 18" mono pole wifi antenna mounted on the top of my house in Tempe. The cable was either RG-8 or LMR-400 coax, came in under the eave, thick stuff. Inside the attic the cable had a small twist and looped like a ribbon:

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The top of the loop was up against the foam board between the studs against the outside wall. Just one loop. Lightning hit the antenna, blew it to smithereens. At the top of the loop inside the attic the cable disintegrated and blew a baseball sized hold in the exterior stucco wall. It also took out the radio on the other end, and the switch behind it, and every ethernet card connected to the switch.

If lightning wants you lightning it's gonna get you.
 
I've never had anything experience a direct strike.

I have looked into some issues related to lightning protection for an ordinance (explosives) handling facility.
Beside lightning protection (rods at corners, cables suspended to connect them, leaving a protected volume for the building), there was a practice of using ground wires to drain static from material being moved (e.g. rocket motors on an air pallet.)
A concern being studied was two ground wires connecting pallet from two different points, which could carry current and induce a field in the explosive material.

The knot or coil of wire forms an inductor. Inductance goes as the square of turns. This makes a higher impedance so when voltage is applied, current rises more slowly. Add a capacitor downstream and you have a low-pass filter which reduces voltage that gets through, for higher frequencies like a pulse. Similar to restricting a garden hose with a nozzle, and catching the water in a bucket. For a while, no water spills on the ground.

A LPF like that can attenuate voltage pulse that appears.

Spark gap can break down and divert energy to ground, like pressure relief valve. Works better with sharp points so I was surprised bent rod shown earlier had radius for spark gap.

SPD like MOV electronically conduct at higher voltage.

Spark gap might do something for a direct strike. But mostly these things are for much lower coupled energy, when lightning strikes nearby including lightning rods and current flow induces a pulse in your wires.

We make tiny versions of these things for electronics used in vacuum chambers that might experience an arc, like a filament (electron source) biased at 30kV. Due to contamination outgassing etc. there is sometimes an arc that is like a big static discharge. Those used resistors rather than inductors. Not delivering power, just signal (in some cases higher frequency signal, so I used low capacitance zener rather than high capacitance MOV.)

Protection can include resistor, gas discharge tube (flash lamp), resistor, MOV or Zener.

The Midnight MOV look good and have LED to show "protecting" (under bias) and "failed" (shorted MOV disconnected by fuse.)

Inspector said my service upgrade had to have whole-house surge protection so I bought some Square-D QO devices that plug in breaker panels (dimensions too large, interfere with breaker behind it, place across from unused slots.)

I've bought MOV with thermal fuse from DigiKey. Attach pigtail wires and for a couple dollars each, two or 3 of those will do same thing as the Midnight, just no LED to tell you when they failed. If 3-lead they could be tested with DMM.
 
Doing a little more research, it seems that lightning (energy transfer from sky to ground), is not as well understood as I had thought. This is from Wikipedia:

"The charge transfer theory states that a lightning strike to a protected structure can be prevented by reducing the electrical potential between the protected structure and the thundercloud. This is done by transferring electric charge (such as from the nearby Earth to the sky or vice versa).[25][26] Transferring electric charge from the Earth to the sky is done by installing engineered products composed of many points above the structure. It is noted that pointed objects will indeed transfer charge to the surrounding atmosphere[27][28] and that a considerable electric current can be measured through the conductors as ionization occurs at the point when an electric field is present, such as happens when thunderclouds are overhead.

In the United States, the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) does not currently[when?] endorse a device that can prevent or reduce lightning strikes. The NFPA Standards Council, following a request for a project to address Dissipation Array[tm] Systems and Charge Transfer Systems, denied the request to begin forming standards on such technology (though the Council did not foreclose on future standards development after reliable sources demonstrating the validity of the basic technology and science were submitted).[29]"

So, what are we to do if we desire lightning protection for our home/shop?

It seems that looking at older buildings from the 19th and 20th centuries, many were protected by the 'traditional' aerial rods along the building ridges, connected by copper wire down to grounding rods, and I think that the building was completely encircled underground by copper wire connected to the grounding rods. I have never heard of nor seen images of one of these systems destroyed by a lightning strike, but undoubtedly it has happened.

Any first or second hand reports?
 
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Doing a little more research, it seems that lightning (energy transfer from sky to ground), is not as well understood as I had thought. This is from Wikipedia:

"The charge transfer theory states that a lightning strike to a protected structure can be prevented by reducing the electrical potential between the protected structure and the thundercloud. This is done by transferring electric charge (such as from the nearby Earth to the sky or vice versa).[25][26] Transferring electric charge from the Earth to the sky is done by installing engineered products composed of many points above the structure. It is noted that pointed objects will indeed transfer charge to the surrounding atmosphere[27][28] and that a considerable electric current can be measured through the conductors as ionization occurs at the point when an electric field is present, such as happens when thunderclouds are overhead.

In the United States, the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) does not currently[when?] endorse a device that can prevent or reduce lightning strikes. The NFPA Standards Council, following a request for a project to address Dissipation Array[tm] Systems and Charge Transfer Systems, denied the request to begin forming standards on such technology (though the Council did not foreclose on future standards development after reliable sources demonstrating the validity of the basic technology and science were submitted).[29]"

So, what are we do if we desire lightning protection for our home/shop?

It seems that looking at older buildings from the 19th and 20th centuries, many were protected by the 'traditional' aerial rods along the building ridges, connected by copper wire down to grounding rods, and I think that the building was completely encircled underground by copper wire connected to the grounding rods. I have never heard of nor seen images of one of these systems destroyed by a lightning strike, but undoubtedly it has happened.

Any first or second hand reports?
Maybe someone stole the copper but pretty bad luck the church got hit twice wonder what the church did to p**s off god.
 
Sounds like the best protection would be to attach a really big Tesla coil to your devices and charge them up to a couple million volts such that the lightning hits somewhere else.
 
Ok.
Here is how i was tought.

A surge arrestor will disapate inductance, and minor surges from loads in the system.
The known theroy is to give some level of protection of the equipment plugged into a surge protector by giving the direct strike a small path to jump between.

It WILL NOT provide lightning surge protection, but when tied in the plug end of a surge strip, the combination of surge electronics, and the knot provide enough of a pathway, so a direct strike destroys the cord at the knot, and the surge devices in the protector contain a bit of the energy...

Obviously, this will not be an ideal protection device, but in SOME lightning strikes, it may limit or prevent total destruction of connected devices… lightning strikes are massive energy releases, hardly anything survives a strike.

The best protection from a strike is to not be in the current path.
 
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I was considering putting a tree top treck cable suspended 5-7m above my solar arrays connected between 2 trees by strain insulators and connected to a driven ground by #6sol cu at the bottom of the hill >100m from electrical earth bond. I have a few 50KV strain insulators
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I only wonder if the length of wire would act as an attractant
To my knowledge the closest strike I've ever had was a tree 7meters from my pump house
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a direct strike destroys the cord at the knot, and the surge decices in the protector contain a bit of the energy...
That is interesting about the "direct strike destroys the cord." I read that too years ago and never forgot it. Do you think that's actually true or some kind of urban myth?
 
That is interesting about the "direct strike destroys the cord." I read that too years ago and never forgot it. Do you think that's actually true or some kind of urban myth?
Well I can vouch for the 'cord destruction' at a loop point (see above). It didn't save any gear, and I threw the entire cord out, but the cable definitely blew out at the top of the loop.
 
The insulation itself was damaged? Surely not the copper itself.
Was it from lightning?
The cord went from a ribbon loop to hanging by a bit of the outer grounding mesh pretty much two lines straight up, cable folded in half. I had some pics, looked but could not find them. The house was stucco, exterior walls was a wire mesh, on that thin foil/foamboard stuff covered with cement. It blew a hole through the foam foil, mesh and cement about the size of a baseball, or maybe a tennis ball. It just happened to be pretty much centered between two studs, or it might have caught the house on fire. There was a modicum of black splatter in the attic on the studs on either side. I found shards of the fiberglass post that was the antenna body about 1/4 mile away. It blew the wall debris into the pool about 20' away. I was home, I almost wet my pants.

I think it might blow up the knot, but it ain't going to protect anything.
 
I've bought MOV with thermal fuse from DigiKey. Attach pigtail wires and for a couple dollars each, two or 3 of those will do same thing as the Midnight, just no LED to tell you when they failed. If 3-lead they could be tested with DMM.

I'd be interested in a cheap DIY replacement for the Midnight SPD. I checked and found:

Is that what you're referring to?

Spec says "can withstand peak surge currents from 6,000 A to 10,000 A"

A single lightning bolt is extremely powerful; measured in thousands and hundred thousands of amperes (kiloamps or kA).

Basically you want something that will destroy itself and save your equipment. Would that work?
 
MOVs like that, yes.
Be sure to get a high enough voltage that it isn't conducting at all before there is a spike.

They can take thousands of amps, and some number of Joules. Multiple hits, eventually worn out. Various brands and ratings.
SMA put some on PV inputs of some models, user replaceable, recommended periodic replacement in lightning regions.

A big box I got surplus had two sets of 3 (each probably multiple MOV in parallel. One set lower voltage, another higher voltage, indicator lights if any blew out.
 

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