Upgrading SolarEdge system

[BentleyJ]

I thought California didn't allow cities to block owner builder permits. Maybe you go back in and ask for owner builder paperwork.

This an interesting issue that I researched a little recently. Currently, the Contractors State License Board has an Owner-Builder overview page and the exemption is still perfectly valid with only ONE restriction listed, Well Drilling, C-57 License required. Since its a State recognized exemption, Cities and Counties may not have the authority to disallow it. I say "May Not" because I'm not an attorney and I know AHJ's have in some cases adopted more stringent local building codes then County or State requires and that is apparently OK.
On the other hand there is are at least 2, that I know of, State level legislative acts that specifically grant homeowners the right to install solar without undue burden being placed on them from HOA's and AHJ's. The legislation also required Counties and Cities to create streamlined permitting processes and capped the permit fees for small systems. I suspect the AHJ's being forced to keep their fees low resulted in them not wanting to spend much time educating homeowners and having repeat inspections for needed corrections.
I understand not wanting to rock the boat and get them angry but it may be worth talking directly to the head administrator of the Building Dept and/or the City Attorney. Ask them directly what State Code or legal precedent gives them the authority to cancel the State recognized Owner Builder Exemption. The people at the front desk just follow procedure and do what they are told.

Building Officials - Owner-Builder Overview - CSLB

www.cslb.ca.gov

 

[mjsfbay]

Thank you for that insight, BentleyJ. I think you’ve got a point. Perhaps getting the project approved through PG&E should be my first priority and tackling the building dept. can be a battle for another day. Just seems like obstacles keep popping up and I’m allowing that to take the steam out of my plans.

I can’t help but feel like I’m being extorted either way. With the property taxes I pay - you’d think the city should be installing the panels and filing interconnection paperwork with PG&E for me! Ha!

I understand that’s generally unlikely anywhere in the US and certainly impossible in my location… however, a man can dream.

 

[400bird]

The legislation also required Counties and Cities to create streamlined permitting processes and capped the permit fees for small systems.

Do you have references for this? In the fall of 2022 I paid about $450 for the permit on my 960 watt PV addition. That feels like the definition of small systems needing capped fees.

 

[BentleyJ]

I can’t help but feel like I’m being extorted either way. With the property taxes I pay - you’d think the city should be installing the panels and filing interconnection paperwork with PG&E for me! Ha!

While this isn't a political forum, I have to agree completely, tax payers get at most pennies on the dollar in return. At one time we used tax dollars to build the Hoover Dam and an Interstate Highway system. Now its a constant proclamation that there needs to be a grand new spending bill for infrastructure rpairs with NEW taxes to pay for it. How come no one ever asks where all the other money went and why they always want more?
Was watching one of those YT channels the other day about mega-projects, 2,000 ft sky scrapers in Singapore, the Three Gorges Dam, entire cities in the Middle East that kind of stuff. Amazingly the cost of these projects is in the single and low double digit Billions of dollars. Yet the Fed operates on Trillions of dollars and doesn't build anything for us yet we accept the predatory practices of the IRS with silence.

 

[BentleyJ]

Do you have references for this?

This is what I found doing a few searches. Interestingly it took longer than I thought. Some of the information I read a couple of years ago does not come up when searching for "CA Solar Rights Legislation" or similar wording. Censorship and scrubbing the internet of valuable consumer info is just off the charts lately.

1978-Solar Rights Act; Prohibits HOA's from "Significantly" restricting solar access. Significantly not defined.
1995-SB 656; Establishes NET energy metering, capped at 5% of the grid.
2012- SB 1222; Established a mandate for streamlined solar permitting and fee caps for systems under a specified size.
2014-AB 2188; Reaffirms existing law encouraging solar and limiting obstacles. Establishes streamlined solar permitting mandate.
2017-AB 634; Extends HOA prohibitions. AB1414-Extends solar fee caps.
2022-SB379; Requires automated solar permitting process.
Solar Permitting Guidebook-Attached and mentions several other legislative acts pertaining to solar and renewable energy goals.

Below is copied from the CA Solar Permitting Guidebook. I added BOLD to the text I believe is relevant. The term "Qualifed Persons" is not defined as being licensed contractors only, at least I can't find it anywhere. I didn't read all the above legislation. I believe the various building departments are interpreting that to mean licensed electrical or solar contractors. Also note that the stated purpose of the legislation is to promote solar and remove obstacles. Finally, none of the solar legislation, as far I can tell, overturns or even mentions the long standing Owner-Builder CA recognized exemption.

"In some circumstances, a professional electrical engineer may be required to design the electrical portion of the proposed solar PV system. The enforcing agency determines if this is necessary based on the complexity of the system. In many cases, an electrical engineer is not required, as licensed contractors are capable of completing the necessary sizing calculations and can specify the components needed to make smaller systems work safely and properly.
The California Electrical Code requires that portions of electrical systems, including solar PV systems, should only be accessed by qualified persons. This rule is intended to ensure that only people who have training or understand relevant hazards are allowed in certain areas of an electrical installation."

 

[zanydroid]

Qualified Persons is an NEC term, and I don't think NEC defines it wrt contractors, either. If it universally meant licensed contractors only, no owner-builder project is going to fly.

 

[400bird]

There's no certification process to become a "Qualified Persons"
Here's the definition (I believe it is straight from the NEC):
One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved.

For my owner builder paperwork I just signed the line that said I was qualified. Done. I've got the knowledge, I know how to work safely around voltage, turn it off, job done.

2012- SB 1222; Established a mandate for streamlined solar permitting and fee caps for systems under a specified size.

Thanks for finding that!
Sadly, they think my permit fees were reasonable:

This bill would require permit fees for rooftop solar energy systems, as specified, by a city, county, city or county, or charter city to not exceed the estimated reasonable cost of providing the service for which the fee is charged, which cannot exceed $500 plus $15 per kilowatt for each kilowatt above 15kW for residential rooftop solar energy systems, and $1,000 plus $7 per kilowatt for each kilowatt between 51kW and 250kW, plus $5 for every kilowatt above 250kW, for commercial rooftop solar energy systems, unless certain conditions are met.

 

[zanydroid]

As of 2023, my city still does not have streamlined solar permits yet. Unless you think having a easy-ish set of exemptions in place for not needing an engineer stamp counts. I guess you get to save a few hundred, so it's better than nothing. Full plans are still needed, which means they have to pass through their plan check vendor's fees for 10 pages onto you.

I heard rumors (from that NEM guy on r/solar) that there's some new IT system being rolled out in California though to streamline it further...

 

[BentleyJ]

Full plans are still needed, which means they have to pass through their plan check vendor's fees for 10 pages onto you.

That's interesting, Here is another paragraph from AB2188, 2014. Not sure using an outside vendor or engineering firm is allowed.

"(b) A city or county shall administratively approve applications to install solar energy systems through the issuance of a building permit or similar nondiscretionary permit. Review of the application to install a solar energy system shall be limited to the building official’s review of whether it meets all health and safety requirements of local, state, and federal law."

I heard rumors (from that NEM guy on r/solar) that there's some new IT system being rolled out in California though to streamline it further...

Perhaps this is related to the SB 379 legislation, requiring an automated approval process for solar.

 

[zanydroid]

The outside firm does nothing but what an in-house plan check team would do. If someone were to complain about it… I’d call it frivolous legal harassment ?

They check for some basic code compliance, all specifications in place, plan view of site, California code citation boilerplate, specific code callouts in tricky areas they deem important (EG outlet and panel positions)

They also outsource like 25% of inspector shifts.

 

[zanydroid]

I think the only thing that needs drawings are the fire marshal review of shutdown location and solar panels.

Everything else might as well be checkboxes and filled in equipment info.