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UTILIZING GRID TIE INVERTER OFF GRID - $100 REWARD FOR SOLUTION

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joesmith123

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Mar 1, 2023
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The property is off grid

using a Prius as a generator to power an off grid tiny home

Inverter being used: Aurora PVI6000

Prius traction battery voltage: 220 DC

Ran wire from Prius to pvi6000

Inverter turned on and said "Missing Grid"

This is grid tie inverter and needs to be connected to grid for it to pump extra electricity to

How can I utilize the capability of this inverter to take the high voltage direct current and turn it into 240AC?

My idea: get battery bank and turn it into 240AC, plug that into the grid tie inverter, and it will think it has a grid, and any excess electricity will be stored in those batteries

Concern: will the grid tie inverter keep pumping electricity and explode those batteries, or is it smart enough to sense that the grid is "full" and cannot take any more

Will this solve the problem of using grid tie inverter in off grid situation?

$100 reward paid electronically for a solution
 

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joesmith123 said:
How can I utilize the capability of this inverter to take the high voltage direct current and turn it into 240AC?

My idea: get battery bank and turn it into 240AC, plug that into the grid tie inverter, and it will think it has a grid, and any excess electricity will be stored in those batteries

Concern: will the grid tie inverter keep pumping electricity and explode those batteries, or is it smart enough to sense that the grid is "full" and cannot take any more

Will this solve the problem of using grid tie inverter in off grid situation?

$100 reward paid electronically for a solution
Click to expand...
You need an inverter to do that. Specific an High Voltage inverter given your batteries nominal voltage. You can't just plug it into battery. It will definitely explode if you don't know what you're doin. You can fool the GT-inverter if you connect the another sinewave inverter to it's input.
Edit: sorry just realized that you do have in inverter from your pictures. Although i'm not sure if that your grid tie inverter or the off-grid one.
 
You're on the right track but not using the right hardware. There is a standard way to do this.

Can't really expect this to work without an inverter/charger combo or All-in-one.

Let's assume you get an AIO.

Just that is not enough, the AIO probably needs to be designed for grid-forming and AC coupling. Let's think about microinverter case, they will quickly go into anti-islanding mode and turn off. Keep in mind microinverters are designed to detect islands when other microinverters are on the same string (by definition almost, since you'll rarely have just one microinverter), it's not as simple as presence/non-presence of AC. Even with grid-tie inverters you might have multiple inverters. And the anti-islanding has aspirations to detect islands comprising multiple homes, too, since that can definitely happen. The charger or other load is a key part of this. Enphase IQ8s have a way to keep the micros happy with only household loads and no battery charger to absorb the output, but it's proprietary.

To be code compliant (and probably also avoid the potential for some kind of possibly criminal liability situation) you also need a way to physically disconnect the grid when you're doing this to prevent backfeed. Transfer switch is one way. Some AIOs can trigger an external transfer switch, but I think most use a built-in transfer switch. The last one I was sniffing at buying did not have a way to trigger external transfer switch. External case is more complicated because you also need sensors around the place the transfer switch is to be installed, to detect grid down/grid back situation.
 
Last edited:
OK, the above assumed you were trying to activate some grid-tied solar panels. You seem to be trying to activate the inverter connected to the EV battery.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just connect an off-grid inverter that is compatible with this traction battery?

A grid-tie inverter will by default try to push as much as possible into the grid, unless it has export control. With a battery input and no export control it's going to attempt to push full output power. If it's AC coupled, then the grid forming inverter will need to push throttling signals back to it to try to tame it. Many of these throttling signals are not super granular. Because of this the second battery is going to need to sink or supply power to compensate for the throttling not being perfect.

An off-grid inverter + battery is fundamentally simpler to implement and get working.
 
DIY Homesteader here & Not A Professional as many on here*

I've always had the (possibly dangerous) understanding that you can easily hack a grid-tie during an outage by:

Disconnect from Grid,
Send any pure sine wave from any inverter (300w even) onto your mains. This tricks the grid-tie to fire up.
Simply don't use more than the output rating for the inverter.

I wouldn't want to ever try it, and this "idea" would only be used in a SHTF.
 
Grid tie inverters must parallel with a grid. They are designed to then pick up load. Therefore a load must exist (think of the utilty grid as a huge load) or what ever they parallel with becomes a load. Think of it like paralleling two batteries. If they are of the same voltage no current flows. Put a load on them and each shares that current based on the ability of each battery to sustain voltage. Disconnect one of the batteries and the whole load is on the one left. However if if you attempt to parallel two batteries where the voltage is different than current will flow to the lower battery. The bus voltage is some point between the two batteries voltage level if not in parallel but it changes until the lower battery reaches the same (now lower voltage) of the higher voltage battery.

So take the grid tie inverter. It looks for a grid and parallels with it. It now increases its potential so that it picks up load. If your grid is a seperate inverter or a generator you now run into the risk of forcing them to become loads. This is not good. In order to prevent this you need some rather sophisticated electronic magic involved.
 
koppted said:
You need an inverter to do that. Specific an High Voltage inverter given your batteries nominal voltage. You can't just plug it into battery. It will definitely explode if you don't know what you're doin. You can fool the GT-inverter if you connect the another sinewave inverter to it's input.
Edit: sorry just realized that you do have in inverter from your pictures. Although i'm not sure if that your grid tie inverter or the off-grid one.
Click to expand...
I only have the one main inverter grid tie pvi6000 aurora
 
joesmith123 said:
I only have the one main inverter grid tie pvi6000 aurora
Click to expand...
Well, you can fool that inverter with another off grid one, but that is a dangerous proposition. I assume among other things that your inverter shuts off when the grid is down because the system does not want you sending energy to the power lines in such a scenario. Paralleling an off grid one with this one can get dangerous if you don't have the proper wiring/transfer switch/shut-off, Its a disaster waiting to happen.
 
farmhand said:
DIY Homesteader here & Not A Professional as many on here*

I've always had the (possibly dangerous) understanding that you can easily hack a grid-tie during an outage by:

Disconnect from Grid,
Send any pure sine wave from any inverter (300w even) onto your mains. This tricks the grid-tie to fire up.
Simply don't use more than the output rating for the inverter.

I wouldn't want to ever try it, and this "idea" would only be used in a SHTF.
Click to expand...
You said "simply dont use more than the out rating for the inverter"

Which inverter are you talking about exactly? The 6000 watt PVI6000 or the 300 watt dummy inverter to turn the big inverter on? You could be on to something, thank you so much for even responding
 
solar8484 said:
For a Prius, it's a long solved problem. This solution has been available for years
www.plugoutpower.com

HOME | PlugOut Power, Generator for hybrid vehicles | United States

Hybrid and plug-in vehicles can become power generators for the home using the PlugOut inverter.
www.plugoutpower.com www.plugoutpower.com
Click to expand...
Yes that is last resort, they're about $3000. The one i have is much higher quality and will outlast the plugout. I need to exhaust all avenues with the pvi6000 before spending thousands on another idea.
 
houseofancients said:
time to replace it i fear
Click to expand...
I will not spend big money yet until all avenues are exhausted. Its a miracle that this inverter even accepts the high voltage from the prius. Look into high voltage input inverters, minimum 3-4 thousand, and not good companies
 
you have to match or use more 240vac power than your grid-tie can produce, else poof. All grid-tie inverter has to adhere to UL1741, which essentially prevents outputing without a working grid. Older inverter, including micro, are only UL1741 compliance. Newer UL1741-SA inverter can throttle the AC output via frequency shifting. A fake grid, aka off-grid/pseudo-grid with proper grid disconnect, can turn on grid-tie inverter; but load management is a must, be it a load dump or load usage etc...
 
Need more info, what is the Prius HV battery capacity ? your PV capacity ?
 
summit said:
you have to match or use more 240vac power than your grid-tie can produce, else poof. All grid-tie inverter has to adhere to UL1741, which essentially prevents outputing without a working grid. Older inverter, including micro, are only UL1741 compliance. Newer UL1741-SA inverter can throttle the AC output via frequency shifting. A fake grid, aka off-grid/pseudo-grid with proper grid disconnect, can turn on grid-tie inverter; but load management is a must, be it a load dump or load usage etc...
Click to expand...
I understand that grid tie inverters will pump as much electricity into the grid as possible

This inverter is very smart, has full blown computers/sensors etc. I think it could be smart enough to throttle the output into the fake mini grid. Meaning, if it is pumping into the fake grid, it will sense voltage increase and stop pumping into it. And it will still have its necessities matched where it has the 200+ volt DC input (from prius), and pure sine wave detection from the fake grid. Your thoughts?
 
Also if this idea doesn't work, if someone has a quality inverter that would work for this application, I would be interested
 
It would require a hybrid inverter that has AC coupling capabilities.
 
timselectric said:
The problem is that if you don't use everything that the grid-tied inverter produces. It will send its power into the grid forming inverter. This will kill that inverter.
Click to expand...
But, if it is pumping into a fake grid thats getting full, wont it sense higher voltage and stop pumping into it? Its a very smart device. My theory: It will pump into the fake grid until the batteries are charged up, then it will sense higher voltage and stop pumping into it, but still provide power to the tiny home. Long as its able to take that high voltage direct current and turn it into home power, then I'm set
 
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