UTILIZING GRID TIE INVERTER OFF GRID - $100 REWARD FOR SOLUTION

[Browse]

This inverter is relatively cheap and can take up to 250VDC input:

Growatt 6kW Split Phase Off-Grid Inverter | SPF 6000T DVM-MPV

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL

signaturesolar.com

 

[timselectric]

I'm not sure if it was stated. But I got the feeling that the OP wasn't in North America.

 

[Browse]

I'm not sure if it was stated. But I got the feeling that the OP wasn't in North America.

Hmmm...first post attachment indicates L1, L2, N on the diagram.

 

[400bird]

I got the same impression, but Browse has a good point.

OP, when you're experimenting, watch out your grid tie inverter probably has a 5 minute timer. Where it is required to wait 5 minutes between sensing good AC on the input and starting to output current.

 

[summit]

No ,it doesn't care what the voltage is. It just matches it and keeps on pumping. The grid is huge, it can't hurt it. It doesn't know of care it it's being faked out by a tiny grid.

He is tied to the grid but off-grid, the unknown is how the grid-tie inverter will behave with insufficient load drawn. I am curious to find out as well. My guess is the 240vac side would rise in voltage, then smoke comes out of the small dc-ac grid faker. It's possible that the PIV6000 would shut-down upon seeing output voltage outside its limit. Page 82 lists upper AC voltage at 264vac, page 84 lists UL1741 only, no frequency shifting capability. This is a garden variety grid-tie inverter.

Have a proper fire extinguisher on hand when you do the test, and please report back. That 264vac would smoke the little dc-ac 240vac. Oh, it'll need to be a pure sine wave as well.

What price range are we talking about here ? again, what kind of load.

A possible solution is to get a grid-tie inverter with a CT pick-up coil, which will limit production. Self-consumption grid-tie inverters are popular in the UK, and increasingly here in the US as utility companies are pushing back against feeding the grid.

$269 off-grid, lowest price I've seen:

1600Watt 220Vac 12Vdc All In One Inverter Charger

This pure sine wave inverter combines functions of 1600Watt 220Vac 12Vdc pure sine wave inverter and 80Amps charge controller for most battery types.

powmr.com

 

[timselectric]

My guess is the 240vac side would rise in voltage, then smoke comes out of the small dc-ac grid faker.

This is exactly what I would expect.

 

[Hedges]

I looked up solark AIO and the first one that comes up said 48v input, the prius is 220 volt. Do you have a specific model number Solark unit?

Ok if you help me find a cheap used one somewhere and I believe that it will work, then i'll pay for you for your effort $100

Here, I found one used. Can I have my $100 now?

40 acres with off Grid house - farm & garden - by owner - sale

Great secluded off grid 1brd 1 bath home with 50 ft covered back porch. Just right to sit on and look at the abundance of wildlife graze. Surrounded by a large timber company so no chance of...

neworleans.craigslist.org

(it comes with a house and 40 acres)


Otherwise, I would recommend Sunny Island

240V 12KW Complete Solar Generator Cabinet QTY 2 SMA Sunny Island 6048 Warranty | eBay

2x SMA Sunny Island SI6048-US-10 Battery Inverter. Complete inverter system pre-wired, ready to install. You will not find a system easier to install. It is as simple as plugging a solar array into the existing plugs, a battery bank into the existing Anderson connector, an AC power source...

www.ebay.com

 

[Hedges]

Here's something else that will make AC from PV, to power your battery charger

SMA Sunny Boy SB3.8-1SP-US-41 Grid-Tie Inverter w/ SunSpec Rapid Shutdown | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SMA Sunny Boy SB3.8-1SP-US-41 Grid-Tie Inverter w/ SunSpec Rapid Shutdown at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Sunny Boy -41 model. Enable "Secure Power" and it will deliver up to 2000W at 120VAC, if sufficient PV.

 

[joesmith123]

I cannot multi-quote on here, but joesmith123 (coming from a john smith that name sounds made up lol)
This could be insanely dangerous & could KILL. Here is the potential half-cal arc-flash that could occur from you setup if it all went wrong, it doesn't take much.
What I put above was put out there in theory & NOT something you should consider messing with - Stay Safe Joe!

I totally understand, if i do hook it up, I will be far away with a switch, I will have safety gear, and I will put it up on tiktok and give you guys the link

 

[joesmith123]

And Joe we get where you're coming from here. I was a test-subject for 300% operpanelling my new Eco Max (which has survived & works AwEsOmE), but (A) BE SAFE ABOUT IT! (B) If you're going to, do at least get a video.

Zany's reply here is the most informative I've seen on the subject. I didn't know those companies already have such information towards hacking a grid-tie.

Joe, just asking here, do you own this grid-tie equipment outright or is it possibly still financed?

Yes 100% I will get you guys videos, zany's reply saying to look at "budget chinese AIO" is a huge step down from the italian made pvi6000 military grade, that option will be entertained once i'm fully sure pvi6000 wont work

Grid tie equipment I got off facebook marketplace for a steal

 

[joesmith123]

No ,it doesn't care what the voltage is. It just matches it and keeps on pumping. The grid is huge, it can't hurt it. It doesn't know of care it it's being faked out by a tiny grid.

I do think you are correct about most "grid tie inverters" just pumping infinitely, but this one is filled with computers and sensors and relays. This thing was $7000-$8000 in 2011, which is equivalent to a unit $15k-18k today in terms of technology

I'll make a video on tiktok and share the link here when i hook it up safely with a switch far away

 

[joesmith123]

Learning from others is much cheaper.

Yup thats why first I am here running ideas and grateful for all the responses

 

[joesmith123]

You would connect to the solar input from the prius battery. And size over current protection for the SCC limit. You only need a small 48v battery. The keep the inverter awake. Unless you get one with a battery less option. (SUB mode)

"and size over current protection for the SCC limit"

describe what you mean exactly here, assume i am retarded, whats scc?

"you only need a 48v battery to keep the inverter awake"

What setup are you talking about exactly?

I am not sure what you are describing to do here

 

[joesmith123]

Check out thebackshed and fieldline forums. People there are creating mini grids for their GTI's. Simple in concept but requires the right gear.

OK i will look into these, appreciated

 

[joesmith123]

The Prius battery capacity isn't the goal most likely.

If it's a functional Prius, it acts as a highly efficient Atkinson Cycle gasoline generator. I use my Prius similarly, except I use it's 12v system which I have capped out at 100amps so as not to blow a built in 130-140 amp fuse that it has inline on the 12v cabling by default. The prius doesn't have an alternator and supplies it's 12v system from it's 200v+ traction battery system using a dc to dc converter circuit. It will happily do so for days at a time during a power outage, sips fuel compared to any other gasoline generator, is super quiet and low emission. It turns on briefly, charges it's 200v+ battery, then turns off, drains it down to built in set point, then kicks the engine on again.. it's a few minutes on/off cycle depending on load.

I've considered the PlugOut power kit, but $2600 is a bit steep.. I just settle for 1000watts or so instead from the 12v system.

I've also considered using a 250v plus MPPT and going into my existing solar battery system, as some people have in other threads that I've found around the internet, but I just can't bring myself to spend the money and don't feel like opening up the 200v+ prius battery compartment either.. I'm lazy and cheap.

It is literally the easiest thing to plug into the high voltage prius setup, I will soon be linking videos etc to show where it is exactly, it could be less than 5 minutes of "labor"

 

[solar8484]

Given the obvious lack of basic understanding of the how grid-tied inverters work I am not sure what you are looking to learn from the experiment besides that it doesn't work (as many have already explained) and make a video?

 

[timselectric]

"and size over current protection for the SCC limit"

describe what you mean exactly here, assume i am retarded, whats scc?

"you only need a 48v battery to keep the inverter awake"

What setup are you talking about exactly?

I am not sure what you are describing to do here

An off grid AIO (All In One)
SCC (Solar Charge Controller)

 

[Hedges]

I do think you are correct about most "grid tie inverters" just pumping infinitely, but this one is filled with computers and sensors and relays. This thing was $7000-$8000 in 2011, which is equivalent to a unit $15k-18k today in terms of technology

It may be $15k to $18k in 2023 dollars, but about $2k in technology.

In 2003 I paid $2000 ($2500 msrp) for a 2.5kW SWR2500U Sunny Boy grid-tie transformer type inverter.
Today you can pay $1750 for a 7.7kW transformerless Sunny Boy.
All your inverter's technology and sensors won't do a bit of good if the firmware doesn't implement the function you need.
Newer UL-1741-SA inverter may play nice AC coupled with a battery inverter, varying power output as frequency and voltage vary.
That was not a thing in 2003 (except for the SMA ecosystem). Unless your inverter was grid-forming, it won't form a grid.
Can you upload, decompile, modify, recompile, download the firmware?

Just get yourself an AIO with PV input voltage that accepts your battery voltage. Use a precharge resistor so inrush doesn't blow up capacitors and other things. It's been done before. Some AOI are in the $800 to $1600 range.

Just buy a Midnight Classic 200 or 250V input SCC (solar charge controller), connect to your battery (12V or 72V), connect series PV string. About $800.

(Edit - I think I mixed this thread up with somebody trying to use PV to make AC to power a battery charger. Sorry 'bout that. An AIO like someone gave could do what you want.)

MidNite Solar CLASSIC 250 MPPT Charge Controller

Shop now for MidNite Solar CLASSIC 250 MPPT Charge Controller with Arc Fault, Ground Fault, free web monitoring, graphics panel and Solar, Hydro, & Wind Modes.

www.stellavolta.com

 

[timselectric]

I do think you are correct about most "grid tie inverters" just pumping infinitely, but this one is filled with computers and sensors and relays. This thing was $7000-$8000 in 2011, which is equivalent to a unit $15k-18k today in terms of technology

I'll make a video on tiktok and share the link here when i hook it up safely with a switch far away

Ok well, good luck with that.
None of it will be worth 10 cents, afterwards.

 

[joesmith123]

This inverter is relatively cheap and can take up to 250VDC input:

Growatt 6kW Split Phase Off-Grid Inverter | SPF 6000T DVM-MPV

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL

signaturesolar.com

You're the first person to reference an item that could potentially work, that will accept high voltage input

this inverter will work but the quality is definitely not there, but if i have to eventually put down the $1000+, this item is acceptable

 

[joesmith123]

No ,it doesn't care what the voltage is. It just matches it and keeps on pumping. The grid is huge, it can't hurt it. It doesn't know of care it it's being faked out by a tiny grid.

"It doesn't know or care if its being faked out by a tiny grid"
This statement could be true, we will find out once I get a chance to put the video up

 

[joesmith123]

I'm not sure if it was stated. But I got the feeling that the OP wasn't in North America.

What does "OP" mean?

 

[Hedges]

"Original Poster"

The one who created post #1 in this thread (i.e. the man in the mirror, from your perspective)

UTILIZING GRID TIE INVERTER OFF GRID - $100 REWARD FOR SOLUTION

The property is off grid using a Prius as a generator to power an off grid tiny home Inverter being used: Aurora PVI6000 Prius traction battery voltage: 220 DC Ran wire from Prius to pvi6000 Inverter turned on and said "Missing Grid" This is grid tie inverter and needs to be connected to...

diysolarforum.com

 

[joesmith123]

He is tied to the grid but off-grid, the unknown is how the grid-tie inverter will behave with insufficient load drawn. I am curious to find out as well. My guess is the 240vac side would rise in voltage, then smoke comes out of the small dc-ac grid faker. It's possible that the PIV6000 would shut-down upon seeing output voltage outside its limit. Page 82 lists upper AC voltage at 264vac, page 84 lists UL1741 only, no frequency shifting capability. This is a garden variety grid-tie inverter.

Have a proper fire extinguisher on hand when you do the test, and please report back. That 264vac would smoke the little dc-ac 240vac. Oh, it'll need to be a pure sine wave as well.

What price range are we talking about here ? again, what kind of load.

A possible solution is to get a grid-tie inverter with a CT pick-up coil, which will limit production. Self-consumption grid-tie inverters are popular in the UK, and increasingly here in the US as utility companies are pushing back against feeding the grid.

$269 off-grid, lowest price I've seen:

1600Watt 220Vac 12Vdc All In One Inverter Charger

This pure sine wave inverter combines functions of 1600Watt 220Vac 12Vdc pure sine wave inverter and 80Amps charge controller for most battery types.

powmr.com

You're energy into looking at the manual is TREMENDOUSLY appreciated

"garden variety grid tie inverter" - what does "garden variety" mean?

Extinguisher - of course, i will more than report, I will get videos etc and put them on tiktok and send links to everyone

"What price range are we talking about here?" Price range of what exactly?

"What kind of load?" Its powering a tiny home, one person, some ac and one fridge, nothing crazy

"CT pick up coil" - Can I add this to the pvi6000 and make it work?

"$269 item you are referencing" Are you saying to get this item and add to the pvi6000 and it could possibly work?

 

[joesmith123]

Hmmm...first post attachment indicates L1, L2, N on the diagram.

I am in north america, I looked what OP means lol