Why so cheap?

[kenkoh]

What's wrong with these batteries? Someone here recommended RJ Energy and I reached out to them about their pricing I got this today:

This is Alice, nice to meet you!
Please check out our Best Price for you:

For 12V 100Ah LFP battery, USD295 per unit.
For 12V 200Ah LFP battery, USD585 per unit.

6000cycles - 5years Warranty - lifespan>15years - CE/IEC61960certificated.
As a lithium Battery Manufacturer for over 13years, recognized by customers in Australia, Europe and North America,
I am confident our batteries to meet your full satisfactions!

Alice Gan
Overseas Manager
RJ Energy ( CRJ Technology Limited)
Mob: 0086 13076896765
Whatsapp: +86 13076896765
Address: NO.16 Ronghe Road Nanhai District Foshan China

 

[Steve_S]

That sounds about right... remember that 12VDC is only 4 cells. Even the 280's I'm getting are $84.79 ea x 4 = $339.16 with shipping an extra $252.40

 

[kenkoh]

That sounds about right... remember that 12VDC is only 4 cells. Even the 280's I'm getting are $84.79 ea x 4 = $339.16 with shipping an extra $252.40

I don't understand your point about 4 cells, how do they compare to Battleborn?

It says "6000cycles - 5years Warranty - lifespan>15years" is that for real?

 

[Steve_S]

each cell is 3.2-3.6V it takes 4 cells to make a 12V pack. Even the BB's have 4 Cylindricals in them. Toss in a $60 BMS and a casing and voila.

LFP is not new chemistry and companies know how long they can last if cared for. BB warrantees things at their risk/expense but that is also buffered by their price of $900USD per battery. But then they have contracted their materials for a specific quality level and standard which they pay for as well.

 

[kenkoh]

each cell is 3.2-3.6V it takes 4 cells to make a 12V pack. Even the BB's have 4 Cylindricals in them. Toss in a $60 BMS and a casing and voila.

LFP is not new chemistry and companies know how long they can last if cared for. BB warrantees things at their risk/expense but that is also buffered by their price of $900USD per battery. But then they have contracted their materials for a specific quality level and standard which they pay for as well.

OK I have to study this more. The price gap is significant.

 

[JoeHam]

OK I have to study this more. The price gap is significant.

Be sure to ask how much the shipping cost is. For their 6.12kwh battery it is around $400. Still a good price but the shipping is not insignificant.

 

[Dzl]

OK I have to study this more. The price gap is significant.

Definitely factor in shipping cost, it can add on 50% to the total price (and keep that in mind when thinking about the warranty--its almost certain you would have to pay return shipping to China to take advantage of the warranty), also add the cost of a BMS, Busbars, and the cost of materials for an enclosure.

Even after all that RJ lithium, and other raw cell suppliers will come out cheaper, but the difference isn't quite as extreme as it first appears. With Battleborn and other drop-ins part of what you are paying for is the simplicity of buying something that just works, with a good warranty, in house english language support from a reputable North American company. For some people its worth the extra cost, for others who like DIY projects, there can be considerable savings in doing it yourself, but there are definitely trade-offs.

One thing that sets RJ lithium apart from its competitors at a similar price point is the 5 year warranty, but i've never heard any feedback good or bad about how legit the warranty is or what it covers.

One thing to note is that the 6000 cycles the claim is not for the industry standard 80% capacity remaining. I believe the 6000 cycles is for 70% capacity and even then likely exagerated.

 

[Pierre]

Shipping to ZA is crazy ! Recently ordered a $24 power supply module from USA and shipping was $28 !

 

[Rickwillso]

I bought two of the one hundred amp hour batteries ran me $585 each $250 for shipping $61 PayPal exchange I am so impressed with these batteries I just ordered another one the weight is the same as battle balm battery I read the reviews this company has fantastic reviews they also offer PayPal they have emailed me back and forth and answered every single question I saved thousands of dollars if I would have bought them in the US very happy with these unlike my let acid I could not run the refrigerator and flat screen TV all night as I do now they also have Bluetooth in them the company is absolutely fantastic about answering questions and emails I should have bought these a long time ago before I invested all that money in let acid batteries that you can only take down 50%

 

[Rickwillso]

On my last post please excuse misspelled words this is misspelling words the computer if I would have purchased this type of battery here in the US it would have ran $6,000 for three of these one hundred amp I'm sorry three two hundred amp hour batteries the battle bomb is a fantastic battery but I just don't have that kind of money you must be very careful when purchasing these overseas lithium batteries not all the companies batteries our like they weigh a lot less our claim to put out the same power I was very happy I was able to go through PayPal and case I had some sort of issue with some fly-by-night company I hope this helps someone when shopping for lithium batteries

 

[fat_old_sun]

each cell is 3.2-3.6V it takes 4 cells to make a 12V pack. Even the BB's have 4 Cylindricals in them. Toss in a $60 BMS and a casing and voila.

LFP is not new chemistry and companies know how long they can last if cared for. BB warrantees things at their risk/expense but that is also buffered by their price of $900USD per battery. But then they have contracted their materials for a specific quality level and standard which they pay for as well.

Having Dynavolt, a Chinese manufacturer of LFP cells as an investor helps, too! - http://www.prweb.com/releases/2016/06/prweb13508659.htm#

 

[sailing gal]

What's wrong with these batteries? Someone here recommended RJ Energy and I reached out to them about their pricing I got this today:

This is Alice, nice to meet you!
Please check out our Best Price for you:

For 12V 100Ah LFP battery, USD295 per unit.
For 12V 200Ah LFP battery, USD585 per unit.

6000cycles - 5years Warranty - lifespan>15years - CE/IEC61960certificated.
As a lithium Battery Manufacturer for over 13years, recognized by customers in Australia, Europe and North America,
I am confident our batteries to meet your full satisfactions!

Alice Gan
Overseas Manager
RJ Energy ( CRJ Technology Limited)
Mob: 0086 13076896765
Whatsapp: +86 13076896765
Address: NO.16 Ronghe Road Nanhai District Foshan China

Would you mind providing her email address? Thanks!

 

[learning all the time]

This is Alice, nice to meet you!

Please check out our Best Price for you:
For 2 x 12V 100Ah LFP battery, USD315 per unit, sub total is USD630.
Production time: 15 days
Shipping fee to door by sea: USD145(taxes and customs duty included)
Shipping time: 25-35 days
Sub total is USD775.

The weight is 13Kg.
The size is L325xW171xH216mm.

6000cycles - 5years Warranty - lifespan>15years - CE/IEC61960certificated.

As a lithium Battery Manufacturer for over 13years, recognized by customers in Australia, Europe and North America,
I am confident our batteries to meet your full satisfactions!

Specs can be sent if needed.

Thanks.


------------------
Best regards
Alice Gan
Overseas Manager
RJ Energy ( CRJ Technology Limited)
Mob: 0086 13076896765
Whatsapp: +86 13076896765
Address: NO.16 Ronghe Road Nanhai District Foshan China

So has anyone verified these people are legit? Basically the exact reply kenkoh got but they did customize responses such as size and weight that I requested. I am very curious on this. I do not dry camp enough to justify Battle Born. Most other companies are close enough to price I may as well spend the extra for a BB warranty but this place is 2 batteries for $775 shipped.

 

[sailing gal]

After a good deal of research, I recently ordered 2 200 Ah LFPs from them. Here is what sold me:
1. I am in Spain, so shipping wasn't so terrible.
2. Their BMS measures the output of each cell in the battery, not of the battery as a whole. This is superior to Battle Born, I believe, because Battle Born batteries measure the overall condition of the battery, not each cell. This allows the system to bypass a bad cell without shutting down the entire battery.
3. They are a huge company, and they probably make most of the LFP batteries sold in Europe and maybe the U.S. under different labels.
4. They manufacture the batteries to order. So, I know that my batteries have been made in the same manufacturing run and therefore are a complete match. Unmatched batteries can affect performance.

I am awaiting delivery, can give a report once they are delivered.

 

[Gazoo]

Their BMS measures the output of each cell in the battery, not of the battery as a whole. This is superior to Battle Born, I believe, because Battle Born batteries measure the overall condition of the battery, not each cell. This allows the system to bypass a bad cell without shutting down the entire battery.

I don't know of any BMS that works that way. A BMS will monitor each pack of cells connected in series as is the case with Battleborn and Battleborn uses cylindrical cells of which there are many. As far as I know RJ Lithium is using prismatic cells and the BMS will monitor each pack of cells connected in series. In either case if the BMS detects a bad cell the BMS will disconnect the the output and there will be 0 volts. RJ is most likely using 4 200ah cells in series but might be using 2 strings of 100ah cells wired in parallel in the batteries you ordered.

3. They are a huge company, and they probably make most of the LFP batteries sold in Europe and maybe the U.S. under different labels.
4. They manufacture the batteries to order. So, I know that my batteries have been made in the same manufacturing run and therefore are a complete match. Unmatched batteries can affect performance.

There has been debate on this forum whether they manufacture them or get them from another factory in China. Please refer to the following thread. It doesn't matter to me much as long as what I order meets the specifications posted on the sellers website.

BEST 200/280aH BATTERY DEALs so far for the Week of FEB 28

This is part of whats frustrating about many of the raw cell sellers. Even when they are selling a perfectly decent product they often misrepresent themselves or the product which does not inspire confidence. I'm unsure whether this is just the way business works in China or whether there are...

diysolarforum.com

I know they have good reviews and you will probably be ok.

Warranties don't matter in most cases due to the cost to ship defective items back to China. The good news is a grade A cell is not likely to fail unless the user causes it to.

 

[learning all the time]

Thank you guys for the information. Sailing Gal I look forward to results. Gazoo thanks for the input also. 2 100 AH batteries cost the same as 1 battleborn so it currently looks like a winner.

 

[Gazoo]

2 100 AH batteries cost the same as 1 battleborn so it currently looks like a winner.

And a DIY would cost even less than RJ. That's the direction I am going in although I haven't decided yet exactly what to do. The thing with DIY is it is fun hassle can be frustrating type of thing. But when completed I will know exactly what I have...cells, BMS and so on. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

I am awaiting delivery, can give a report once they are delivered.

Oh yes, please do. Thanks!

 

[sailing gal]

I don't know of any BMS that works that way. A BMS will monitor each pack of cells connected in series as is the case with Battleborn and Battleborn uses cylindrical cells of which there are many. As far as I know RJ Lithium is using prismatic cells and the BMS will monitor each pack of cells connected in series. In either case if the BMS detects a bad cell the BMS will disconnect the the output and there will be 0 volts. RJ is most likely using 4 200ah cells in series but might be using 2 strings of 100ah cells wired in parallel in the batteries you ordered.



There has been debate on this forum whether they manufacture them or get them from another factory in China. Please refer to the following thread. It doesn't matter to me much as long as what I order meets the specifications posted on the sellers website.

BEST 200/280aH BATTERY DEALs so far for the Week of FEB 28

This is part of whats frustrating about many of the raw cell sellers. Even when they are selling a perfectly decent product they often misrepresent themselves or the product which does not inspire confidence. I'm unsure whether this is just the way business works in China or whether there are...

diysolarforum.com

I know they have good reviews and you will probably be ok.

Warranties don't matter in most cases due to the cost to ship defective items back to China. The good news is a grade A cell is not likely to fail unless the user causes it to.

 

[sailing gal]

Here is part of the discussion I had with "Alice" at RJ:



1. Does the BMS for each battery monitor each cell or only the entire battery?
The BMS monitor each cell.


2. Will the app for monitoring the BMS show me each cell?
Yes, the app will show you each cell, you can search XiaoxiangBMS on AppStore and install it.
3. Are the cells prismatic or cylindrical?
We have both prismatic and cylindrical cells.
If you have any preference, please advise.

4. How long would delivery take?
Production time is 15-20 days, shipping time is 25-35 days.
5. How do you honor your warranty? Would I have to send a battery back to China? I will eventually return to the U.S.A. with the boat, do you have representatives there?
We will send you new battery if the battery has quality problems, and you needn't send it back to China.
6. How much would an extended warranty cost?
We provide 5-years warranty for 12V battery.

 

[Gazoo]

1. Does the BMS for each battery monitor each cell or only the entire battery?
The BMS monitor each cell.

That is correct if they are using 4 200ah cells or 8 100 amp prismatic cells in a 2P4S configuration. It depends on how they configure it if using 8 100 amp cells. With cylindrical batteries they hook a bunch of these cells in parallel in order to get the ah's up to the spec they are advertising. So there may be as many as 40 cells connected in parallel to make one string of 120ah. Then the 4 strings are connected in series to make the 12 volt battery. In this case the BMS will monitor each string of cells in series. However it will not monitor each cell. There are various configurations but what I have stated applies to all of them that I know of. There are exceptions where a manufacturer will connect a battery balancer to each cell. There are tons of posts on this forum that explain how a BMS works and how to use them. RJ isn't doing anything magical or superior compared to the other manufacturers. I would ask them what BMS they use, and who is the manufacturer of the cells.

5. How do you honor your warranty? Would I have to send a battery back to China? I will eventually return to the U.S.A. with the boat, do you have representatives there?
We will send you new battery if the battery has quality problems, and you needn't send it back to China.

One can only hope but they have to keep a good reputation to stay in business.

 

[sailing gal]

I think they manufacture the batteries themselves, given what I have experienced with them so far. Mine have now been shipped from China on a train heading to Spain. I have a friend who is very into off-grid electricity generation who assisted me with this purchase so I decided to take the gamble based on his opinions. When they get here and we have tested them, I will make a report.

 

[ScoTTyBEEE]

each cell is 3.2-3.6V it takes 4 cells to make a 12V pack. Even the BB's have 4 Cylindricals in them. Toss in a $60 BMS and a casing and voila.

LFP is not new chemistry and companies know how long they can last if cared for. BB warrantees things at their risk/expense but that is also buffered by their price of $900USD per battery. But then they have contracted their materials for a specific quality level and standard which they pay for as well.

BB's don't have 4 cylindrical cells, they have numerous 18650's.

 

[Steve_S]

Battleborn does not use 18650 cells. They are LiFePo4 Cylinders.

 

[ScoTTyBEEE]

Battleborn does not use 18650 cells. They are LiFePo4 Cylinders.

Whatever they are there isn't 4 of them

 

[learning all the time]

And a DIY would cost even less than RJ. That's the direction I am going in although I haven't decided yet exactly what to do. The thing with DIY is it is fun hassle can be frustrating type of thing. But when completed I will know exactly what I have...cells, BMS and so on. Good luck whatever you decide to do.



Oh yes, please do. Thanks!

Hey Gazoo, Did you figure out your build? I see them around $500 not including BMS or case. RJ is offering them for $500 built but still not sure about the company.