Why the distaste for Eco-Worthy kits?

[SiliconOrb]

I've seen some hate for Eco-Worthy kits, and really don't understand it.

Maybe if you are buying everything with batteries, expecting a turn-key solution, they may not be so great. But I purchased the basic Eco-Worthy 24v 2400w kit a month and a half ago, just to get the size and quantity of panels I needed (very important for my installation), the panel wiring and the junction box. Everything was shipped quickly and arrived undamaged. The price wasn't too bad either.

The panels seem to be performing fine in 2S6P, the junction box does generate a bit of heat when the sun is really pounding the panels, due to the smaller than ideal internal wiring, but the fuses, diodes and breakers are sized appropriately and the box seems decent enough so long as it's not directly exposed to the elements and the terminals are checked for tightness. The provided controller is a cheapy which I had no intention of using, so it went into my parts box or a possible future mobile setup. Instead, I paired the panels with a Growatt 3000w all-in-one and a couple of low-temp 300ah CHINS Smart batteries. So far, I've been able to use about 150kwh from the system, with little to no issues.

The panels seem pretty sturdy, and I have even walked on them gingerly, being careful to step only on the frame areas supported by the mounting brackets. I think my peak output from the panels has been in the neighborhood of just over 1600-1700w , but my panels are mounted on an existing shed, with less than ideal angles to the sun.

I'm sure that there are better and/or cheaper ways to go about things, but for a neophyte, it was nice having most of the essential parts included to at least get to the point of an output from the panels. No regrets so far.

But my question is, what am I missing about these kits that raises the ire of some folks? I'm genuinely curious about what I should be looking out for in the way of issues.

 

[snoobler]

This is a DIY solar forum. "Kits" are less "DIY" than other options. There is also an expense associated with the convenience of the kits.

You said it yourself "better and/or cheaper" - which is very much the spirit of DIY - more for less.

No shame in going the route you went, especially if you're happy with it!

 

[chrisski]

I stopped dealing with ecoworthy when my first and second purchases were bait and switch. Canceled both purchases.

 

[SiliconOrb]

This is a DIY solar forum. "Kits" are less "DIY" than other options. There is also an expense associated with the convenience of the kits.

You said it yourself "better and/or cheaper" - which is very much the spirit of DIY - more for less.

No shame in going the route you went, especially if you're happy with it!

What I see here mostly is only DIY to the extent that folks are selecting off-the-shelf components and assembling their own systems. Even the more involved task of DIY batteries use off-the-shelf cells and BMS modules. While kits of the Eco-Worthy nature can have some limitations, if one were considering buying all of those same parts anyway, I fail to see a large difference. As for the expense, by buying the kit, there was a savings of well over $300 from buying the same parts individually. Even considering the parts I didn't use, it was still $250 less expensive. While I did enough research to have a modicum of confidence, I also knew that the parts would be reasonably matched, possibly saving additional time and expense.

I stopped dealing with ecoworthy when my first and second purchases were bait and switch. Canceled both purchases.

I see you have posted this several times. The classic definition of "Bait and Switch" is "the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods which are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods." It's my understanding that your complaint is that their site incorrectly showed the items you purchased to be in stock and they weren't. That happens. So they offered a solution which added a shipping expense, so you could receive the order faster, or let you know you could wait. While I'm sure that this left a bad taste about the company, it doesn't happen to everyone and it's certainly doesn't seem to be "bait and switch".

And no, I don't work for the company, nor do I recommend anyone follow my lead. I just know that some of the comments posted here caused me to unnecessarily question my choices for batteries and panels and look for faults which weren't present. So I guess the CHINS batteries also aren't so bad now that Will has just done a teardown and basically confirmed that their construction and capacity is mostly identical to the less maligned Ampere Time?

 

[chrisski]

I see you have posted this several times. The classic definition of "Bait and Switch" is "the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods which are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods."

I ordered items off their website that were listed as in stock, they took payment, and contacted me later to give me a different item at a higher price or ship from a different location for a higher price.

I think that’s bait and switch. If it’s not, what is this?

 

[SiliconOrb]

I ordered items off their website that were listed as in stock, they took payment, and contacted me later to give me a different item at a higher price or ship from a different location for a higher price.

I think that’s bait and switch. If it’s not, what is this?

No stock, offered options. Supply chains have been absolutely unreliable for the past year and a half+.

If it were intentional, I believe the term is "upselling", but I'm pretty sure it would be an assumption on your part that this was the case.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

What I see here mostly is only DIY to the extent that folks are selecting off-the-shelf components and assembling their own systems. Even the more involved task of DIY batteries use off-the-shelf cells and BMS modules.

Because building your own BMS from scratch, while feasible, is not exactly efficient. The time you need to design and test coupled with the electronics skills required (mind you, we have members here that are up to the task, me included) makes this very inefficient. The fun ting for me is to find different components that are (or were) not well known and see if they work and save costs. For example:

This could be interesting

So, instead of just doing the usual and buying some Victron and Batrium equipment and calling it a day, I went shopping on Alibaba and Aliexpress to see if I could build my entire 32x280Ah and 10kW solar panels system for under 10K Euro, keeping in mind the power and charge requirements - so not...

diysolarforum.com

In the mean time, others have found the Heltec/JK BMS and have had good success with it. A guy on YouTube found my write-up and built his own based on that in Arizona and made a video series about it that in turn can help others (especially since he reaches an audience, my YT account only has 149 subscribers

This is what makes DIY fun for me. Try something no one did before, report the results, and help out others that want to get the most bang for the buck.

 

[gfmucci]

I've seen some hate for Eco-Worthy kits, and really don't understand it.

Maybe if you are buying everything with batteries, expecting a turn-key solution, they may not be so great. But I purchased the basic Eco-Worthy 24v 2400w kit a month and a half ago, just to get the size and quantity of panels I needed (very important for my installation), the panel wiring and the junction box. Everything was shipped quickly and arrived undamaged. The price wasn't too bad either.

The panels seem to be performing fine in 2S6P, the junction box does generate a bit of heat when the sun is really pounding the panels, due to the smaller than ideal internal wiring, but the fuses, diodes and breakers are sized appropriately and the box seems decent enough so long as it's not directly exposed to the elements and the terminals are checked for tightness. The provided controller is a cheapy which I had no intention of using, so it went into my parts box or a possible future mobile setup. Instead, I paired the panels with a Growatt 3000w all-in-one and a couple of low-temp 300ah CHINS Smart batteries. So far, I've been able to use about 150kwh from the system, with little to no issues.

The panels seem pretty sturdy, and I have even walked on them gingerly, being careful to step only on the frame areas supported by the mounting brackets. I think my peak output from the panels has been in the neighborhood of just over 1600-1700w , but my panels are mounted on an existing shed, with less than ideal angles to the sun.

I'm sure that there are better and/or cheaper ways to go about things, but for a neophyte, it was nice having most of the essential parts included to at least get to the point of an output from the panels. No regrets so far.

But my question is, what am I missing about these kits that raises the ire of some folks? I'm genuinely curious about what I should be looking out for in the way of issues.

Bought 3, 195 watt panels from them. One of the first 2 came broken - glass punctured in shipment. The quick replacement and 3rd one were fine. The biggest gripe I hear is damage in shipment due to careless shipper and substandard packaging.

The email response to questions and concerns is to the point within 24 hours.

 

[Greendream]

Some of their bundles are fairly imbalanced IMO. 3.9Kw panels with 200Ah 48v gel batteries advertised as off-grid. 3500W inverter. Its just not good enough for off grid. $5800 for the bundle.

I did receive 1 broken panel (out of 20) and a damaged ground mount box with missing hardware. They were good to replace the damaged/missing parts with pictures of proof. I decided against the PWM SCC and inverter and went with magnum inverter and MPPT SCC. I also went with LFP batteries. So all I am using from the bundle is the panels. For $200 around here you can get 2x 280w panels new. Higher voltage panels. So their panels are overpriced in comparison. 195w vs 560w.

I should have researched more but I am using what I can from the bundle. I plan to setup another array and use the batteries at least. I doubt ill use the inverter or PWM SCC. I am probably going to get some all in one inverter/charger instead for more efficiency.

FWIW Ive recorded 3.6 and 3.4Kw as my two highest PV harvests and regularly get 15+ Kwh harvest days So the panels seem to provide the claimed power or close. Still too much per watt.

 

[SiliconOrb]

Some of their bundles are fairly imbalanced IMO. 3.9Kw panels with 200Ah 48v gel batteries advertised as off-grid. 3500W inverter. Its just not good enough for off grid. $5800 for the bundle.

You definitely don't want to make assumptions with any company out there offering bundles, just based on titles. I knew going in, which parts I intended to use and the cost of those items if purchased individually. I also had a pretty good idea as to the parts I might need to replace or upgrade.

I needed panels with specific dimensions in order to take the fullest advantage of the space I had available for the installation. 12 of the 195w panels fit nearly perfectly into a 12x12 space. While cheaper panels are nice, the larger panels would have meant a 660w smaller installation in the same space, or a loss of about 25%.

Also, from the sound of it, spending extra on their MPPT all-in-one kit with LiFEPO4 batteries would have put you more in the ball park. The kits are designed to a price point, and it's important to understand your needs and whether those align with what you are willing to spend. Off-grid, on it's own, doesn't really mean much, as you can be off-grid with a tiny house or a McMansion, located in any climate.

My biggest complaint with the kit I purchased is the ridiculously small gauge of wire expected to be connected to the controller. If I were to give someone advice on which parts to expect to replace and/or upgrade, even with the better kits, it would be the final output cables and battery capacity. The kits will likely never offer battery capacity which can take full advantage of the PV arrays. I'm finding that 6+ times the PV array rating in kWhrs is pretty close to ideal, and that can carry a large price tag. So I wouldn't even consider those bundles with storage unless my expected usage fell squarely into what was being offered, and the price and chemistry met my requirements.