Hysolis by Seasun Clean Energy, All-in-one Systems

[bigjdunham]

Has anyone purchased and tested a Hysolis All-in-One System? The specs look pretty impressive on these systems, and so I'm wondering how they hold up. Here's the link to an ebay seller selling them. I'd love any thoughts you all have on them. - https://www.ebay.com/sch/sal8493/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

 

[svetz]

No knowledge of the system, but agree quality should be a concern. Typically for quality I look at the warranty and how long the company has been in business (a long warranty on a company that might fail isn't worth much). I ended up with Enphase, 25 year warranty and one of the strongest companies out there. Hope that helps!

 

[bigjdunham]

No knowledge of the system, but agree quality should be a concern. Typically for quality I look at the warranty and how long the company has been in business (a long warranty on a company that might fail isn't worth much). I ended up with Enphase, 25 year warranty and one of the strongest companies out there. Hope that helps!

Thanks svetz. I thought as much. That’s why I hoped that someone had gotten a “review copy” of their products and tested them out.

On a side note I’ve been hesitant to do enphase because I want to do an off-grid system. how do they work in an off grid system? How hard is it to set up?

 

[Hedges]

If you want off-grid, what are your anticipated loads?
Wh/day? Wh during nighttime?
Peak load?
Peak surge (meaning to start motors)?

Budget?

We might be able to suggest other better known models around your price point.

We don't know much about them, no manual or full data sheet, but at least some details.
I see one of the units is described as pure sine wave, low frequency, 120VAC 60 Hz, 3000W, 6000W surge, 120 pounds.
Those spec are believable/self-consistent and it may be able to power some real loads. (high frequency units often can't start motors.)
We don't have details like no-load power consumption.

 

[svetz]

Thanks svetz. I thought as much. That’s why I hoped that someone had gotten a “review copy” of their products and tested them out.

On a side note I’ve been hesitant to do enphase because I want to do an off-grid system. how do they work in an off grid system? How hard is it to set up?

Enphase does have a ton of advantages, primarily of which all your inverters are unlikely to die at once and in comparison they're easy to replace, no strings in series/parallel to worry about, no shading issues, and pretty simple to setup and operate (particularly the panel-level diagnostics).

Enphase has only just become possible/practical for off-grid, but they probably won't be for you if you want to DIY a battery. The problems is you need a "brain" somewhere that adjusts the AC frequency to throttle back over-productions and the hardware to handle surges. There are only two energy storage systems AFAIK... I know it'll work with the Enphase battery (Encharge) and I've heard it'll work with a Tesla Powerwall.

The other way to use Enphase micropinverters with a DIY battery is AC Coupling, but considering the costs you might as well go with Sol-Arc or the Skybox all-in-one.

The Tesla powerwall seems competitive... their website shows 13.5 kWh for $7k.

If you haven't already done an energy audit, that's the place to get started rather than looking at equipment. @Hedges makes a great point about inverters having continuous power and surge power, you need to understand both to ensure you get what you need.

 

[rtharagan]

I had the same question as OP. I saw their systems advertised on Craigslist, I have my eye on one that looks pretty impressive:
$2,599----MPS3K-4500, 3KW Pure Sine Wave Inverter, 48V/30A MPPT charge controller, 4,500 watt hours lithium battery storage.

But it looks so impressive as to encroach into "too good to be true" territory (building a comparable system with the "budget" components on mobile-solarpower.com would cost about as much). Does anyone else agree?

I called the phone number listed on their website and was answered by a legitimate-enough sounding man with an Asian accent. He accepted my proposal to visit their office in Chino, CA next week. I may visit this Monday.

 

[rtharagan]

@bigjdunham @svetz @Hedges

Hey all, I have tentatively scheduled an appointment tomorrow morning at their Chino, CA office. I need to text in the morning to confirm. I asked the man ("Eric" or Shanghai) if I could come in, run tests, open up the case, etc. and he said, "Sure, no problem."

He says the company has existed in China for 12 years and just expanded to the U.S. this May (what timing). All the parts I asked about, from the inverter to the MPPC, are apparently manufactured or at least branded by Hysolis.

I know next to nothing about these systems and am just diving in to my first solar van build.

My question to you all - what can I do to gather as much information as possible during this visit without having to buy and test the system outright? What cues can I be on the lookout for during my visual inspection? What, if any, tests could I run that would produce useful results?

 

[Hedges]

Starting surge - take its surge rating, divide by 5, and pick an induction motor with that VA = volts x amps on the label. See if it can start it.

One of their units is 3kW, 6kW surge. So a 120V 10A air compressor would be a good load.

Product Page | Hysolis

www.hysolis.net

Idle current - amps draw no-load.

Efficiency - watts out/watts in powering a space heater. Or that same air compressor (current will vary as air pressure goes up.)

PV panel reverse-polarity - people sometimes do that by mistake. Ask if it is protected, and invite them to demonstrate.

Overload behavior - connect too many space heaters, like 4500W, see it it shuts down and recovers.

Short circuit - while unloaded, attach a dead short. Repeat while it is operating under load.

See Gnubie's signature link "OH NO, its a smoke"

what really happens with an overload

Another clip someone may find interesting, 30A wire fuse. Note the current and interval before it breaks. Now think back to that cheapie AC fan you bought from China and the ludicrously thin wire in its cord. Which will happen first? Your 15A (15A is the typical GPO circuit rating in...

diysolarforum.com

 

[rtharagan]

Starting surge - take its surge rating, divide by 5, and pick an induction motor with that VA = volts x amps on the label. See if it can start it.

One of their units is 3kW, 6kW surge. So a 120V 10A air compressor would be a good load.

Product Page | Hysolis

www.hysolis.net

Idle current - amps draw no-load.

Efficiency - watts out/watts in powering a space heater. Or that same air compressor (current will vary as air pressure goes up.)

PV panel reverse-polarity - people sometimes do that by mistake. Ask if it is protected, and invite them to demonstrate.

Overload behavior - connect too many space heaters, like 4500W, see it it shuts down and recovers.

Short circuit - while unloaded, attach a dead short. Repeat while it is operating under load.

See Gnubie's signature link "OH NO, its a smoke"

what really happens with an overload

Another clip someone may find interesting, 30A wire fuse. Note the current and interval before it breaks. Now think back to that cheapie AC fan you bought from China and the ludicrously thin wire in its cord. Which will happen first? Your 15A (15A is the typical GPO circuit rating in...

diysolarforum.com

Thanks for this @Hedges

My questions are -

Starting surge:
Why is a 1200W air compressor a good surge test? Does it take 5x the listed VA to startup an air compressor?

Efficiency:
Will this be a test of how long the space heater runs? I.e. assume full battery of 4.5 kWh, attach a space heater of 2kW, see if it can run close to 2.25 hrs.

Short circuit:
What can I attach as a dead short? Can I just plug in a cut power cord and short circuit the hot and neutral?

I'll read the link you included right now.
EDIT: Just saw the vid is 12 mins... I'll watch later this evening.

 

[Hedges]

Thanks for this @Hedges

My questions are -

Starting surge:
Why is a 1200W air compressor a good surge test? Does it take 5x the listed VA to startup an air compressor?

Efficiency:
Will this be a test of how long the space heater runs? I.e. assume full battery of 4.5 kWh, attach a space heater of 2kW, see if it can run close to 2.25 hrs.

Short circuit:
What can I attach as a dead short? Can I just plug in a cut power cord and short circuit the hot and neutral?

I'll read the link you included right now.
EDIT: Just saw the vid is 12 mins... I'll watch later this evening.

Induction motors take about 5x label rating to start.
I've tested one so far (window air conditioner) and eventually plan to test central A/C, refrigerators, air compressors. After I've wired stuff together so the sensors are on line feeding house and routed to my lab.

Efficiency would be measured instantaneously, DC amps and volts in, AC amps and volts out. Same setup as no-load draw, but after load is turned on.

Basically yeah:

Breaker finder

diysolarforum.com

(note that is in the "Humor" section)
But I would use a switch. No reason to burn contacts in the outlet.
Do NOT do this with grid power, best outcome is breakers interrupt current successfully but it can be a "use once" situation.
Worst case you discover grid can deliver more amps than breaker was designed for and very bad things happen.
So that means I would only do it to the inverter on battery power, not with grid feeding it.

But we want to stress the inverter, not just trip some 20A breaker on an outlet. Needs to hook up to a suitable plug or hard-wired.

 

[rtharagan]

Induction motors take about 5x label rating to start.
I've tested one so far (window air conditioner) and eventually plan to test central A/C, refrigerators, air compressors. After I've wired stuff together so the sensors are on line feeding house and routed to my lab.

Efficiency would be measured instantaneously, DC amps and volts in, AC amps and volts out. Same setup as no-load draw, but after load is turned on.

Basically yeah:

Breaker finder

diysolarforum.com

(note that is in the "Humor" section)
But I would use a switch. No reason to burn contacts in the outlet.
Do NOT do this with grid power, best outcome is breakers interrupt current successfully but it can be a "use once" situation.
Worst case you discover grid can deliver more amps than breaker was designed for and very bad things happen.
So that means I would only do it to the inverter on battery power, not with grid feeding it.

But we want to stress the inverter, not just trip some 20A breaker on an outlet. Needs to hook up to a suitable plug or hard-wired.

Ok thanks @Hedges.

Looks like my tools to bring are 1. Voltmeter, 2. Air Compressor, 3. Space Heaters Totaling >6000W, 4. A power cord directly attached to a light switch.

The purpose of the short circuit test is to gauge the safeguards built into the system?

Also: Am I correct in believing I can test the kWh by recording how long the fully-charged system can power one of these appliances?

I should be good to go after this.

Let me know if you have any more thoughts/ideas on inspection/testing before I head up tomorrow.

 

[Hedges]

Maybe their unit includes measuring amps or watts at the battery, and of the load. It would take a high current shunt to measure battery side.

The overload and short circuit tests are to make sure the inverter survives. With grid we care about breakers tripping because unlimited power is available from grid. With an inverter it may blow up transistors or overheat, both protections we would like it to have (as you'll see in the "its a smoke!" video.)

Yes, kWh of batteries could be measured by time running space heater (turned up so its thermostat never turns off). They're not well calibrated, so good to have amps or watts measurement somewhere.

 

[rtharagan]

Ok. Got a multimeter, 3x 1500W space heaters, air compressor from home depot. On my way to my 12:30pm appt.

 

[Hedges]

Ahh! What Home Depo associates refer to as "The free rental program."

Everything but the shorted out cheater plug? Could use a paper clip, in a pinch.
As a kid, I really liked electromagnets. Although unable to perform the engineering analysis, according to my SWAG, a two-turn coil made from paper clip should produce a very strong magnetic field. So I proceeded to insert that in an extension cord ...

 

[rtharagan]

Haha I’ve got an extension cable and a light switch. Just forgot to mention it.

 

[rtharagan]

Tests passed. Build quality seems great. Will post details later.

 

[rtharagan]

Sorry I took so long. Working hard all week. Simply put, every test passed. Tested just as Hedges suggested. 1500Wx2 space heaters ran, 1500Wx3 space heaters tripped alarm, 1200W air compressor started and ran, short circuit AC plugs tripped safety shutoff, 1500x2 space heaters ran for 1 hr 18 min from almost-full battery. Screen presents all of this information accurately, including PV wattage in. Lmk if you have any questions.

 

[rtharagan]

Because I plan to become only more and more engaged with the solar community as time goes, I give you my full disclosure: As of today I am now working with Hysolis. I recently joined this forum and only skimmed the rules, but I noticed that Will's rules regarding shilling are extremely strict. I don't want any accusations of shilling. Shilling cannot bend the rules of spacetime. Last week, I did indeed visit Hysolis for the first time and I tested their product. Unbeknownst to me, apparently we were destined to work together. I got along with the manager there. They are a Chinese company (Seasun) and I'll be helping them with business as they acclimate here.

FYI, Here are some pics of the testing I did last Monday, as well as a pic of the unit I bought and installed in my friend's Sprinter as part of the solar build I'm doing for him.

Now that I have given full disclosure, lest I tread any closer towards impropriety, I recuse myself.

 

[ssmyth]

how has this held up long term ?

How did you wire it to a distribution panel ?

We want to retro fit an aging AGM system and would need to interface with and existing distribution panel ... any tips ?

 

[Hedges]

how has this held up long term ?

How did you wire it to a distribution panel ?

We want to retro fit an aging AGM system and would need to interface with and existing distribution panel ... any tips ?

That depends on whether you want to back up all circuits during a power outage (interlocked "generator" breaker is the easy way), manually enabling only loads inverter can power...
Or always have some critical loads battery backed. In that case, can add a critical loads panel, or a Reliance panel which lets each circuit be switched between grid and inverter.

I put in inverters with large enough internal transfer relay to carry the house, so entire house is "protected loads". But my battery is small, so I have to turn off excessive loads at night.