Could someone please recommend a all in one charger inverter to run a fridge and a chest freezer. Also how may batteries ( have 2 x fullriver dc105-2 100ah each) total solar panel wattage, 1/2 cut cells or Hyundai shingled, 12, 24 or 48v as researching this takes me round in circles. Appreciate all thoughts.
Hi, first post. Can anyone recommend a budget 3kw inverter/charger to run 2 fridges. Petrol $4.50 per lt. Generator is now to expensive to run for 8hr
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MichaelK
Solar Wizard
OK, I was just answering another post in a different forum with basically the same question, so I'll just cut and paste yesterday's answer for your question. First, let's add up the loads to figure out about how much power you will need.
Inverter itself: 1000Wh
Refrigerator: 1200Wh
Freezer: 600Wh
Lights: 400Wh
TV: 400Wh
Total: 3600Wh (that's 3.6kWh) So, you'll need a system that can provide you with 3.6kWh of power per day.
Let's assume you want to plan on having power for at least two days with zero sun, in case the power goes off during a rain storm, and also that you don't want to drain the battery bank past 50%. The math works out to be 3600Wh X 2days X 2fold = 14,400Wh of power. At 24V this would be a large 600Ah battery. At 48V it would be a 300Ah battery. Batteries in the 600Ah range would require two adult males to lift, so I think you're better off going with the smaller sized battery at higher voltage.
6 250W grid-tie panels, 30V each.
Epever 6420AN charge controller ~270$ on ebay
eight 6V golf-cart batteries, 250Ah each (yes, a little low, but cheap)
Schneider SW4048 sine-wave inverter, 1700$
main electrical panel for the inverter, ~350$ (this has the breakers and switches for binding the batteries, inverter, and charge controller together. Schneider Electric 865-1016 Conext SW DC Breaker Panel - RES Supply 411$
wires, breakers, spit, and other stuff, another 500-750$
Inverter itself: 1000Wh
Refrigerator: 1200Wh
Freezer: 600Wh
Lights: 400Wh
TV: 400Wh
Total: 3600Wh (that's 3.6kWh) So, you'll need a system that can provide you with 3.6kWh of power per day.
Let's assume you want to plan on having power for at least two days with zero sun, in case the power goes off during a rain storm, and also that you don't want to drain the battery bank past 50%. The math works out to be 3600Wh X 2days X 2fold = 14,400Wh of power. At 24V this would be a large 600Ah battery. At 48V it would be a 300Ah battery. Batteries in the 600Ah range would require two adult males to lift, so I think you're better off going with the smaller sized battery at higher voltage.
6 250W grid-tie panels, 30V each.
Epever 6420AN charge controller ~270$ on ebay
eight 6V golf-cart batteries, 250Ah each (yes, a little low, but cheap)
Schneider SW4048 sine-wave inverter, 1700$
main electrical panel for the inverter, ~350$ (this has the breakers and switches for binding the batteries, inverter, and charge controller together. Schneider Electric 865-1016 Conext SW DC Breaker Panel - RES Supply 411$
wires, breakers, spit, and other stuff, another 500-750$
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 20,861
A refrigerator compressor can consume 30W, or it can consume 300W. If there is a defroster, that can be as much as 800W.
Defroster would run 30 minutes or less per day. Compressor runs as little as a few hours per day to continuous.
You have to determine how much power consumed to size the system.
Start with the label, which lists watts and amps.
Look up a consumer energy label that estimates power consumed per year, e.g. 630 kWh/year. Divide by 365 to get daily consumption, e.g. 1.726 kWh or 1726 kW.
You could size battery to power that load for one 12 hour night, or for 60 hours without sun to cover two cloudy days.
Find an "insolation" calculator on-line that says how much sunshine your location gets, and what angle tilt of panels is optimal (or use the tilt of your roof, if to be mounted there.)
Summer gives more effective hours, winter fewer, like 7 vs. 2 hours for some locations. That lets you calculate how much PV panel needed.
There are some efficiency losses, so maybe 40% more needed.
Actual power consumption will vary with temperature and run-time of refrigerator.
You can get away with really small batteries if you run generator for those days not enough sun. And turning off inverter at night; frozen foods should stay cool until morning.
Automotive batteries usually aren't good for deep cycling. These claim surprisingly good cycle life, like 800 cycles to 80% DoD, so might last 2 years draining 80% each night.
2x 100Ah x 12V = 2400 Wh. Could configure as either 12V or 24V system without needing more batteries.
2400Wh x 80% = 1920Wh usable. 1920Wh/12 hours = 160W average load (compare to your calculation of consumption from energy label for two refrigerators.)
If you turned off inverters each night, then the batteries could last a decade.
If you turn off a power strip (or electronic timer) at night and leave inverter running for other loads, "no-load" power draw of inverter presents a drain on batteries. Might be 20W, might be 150W; this parameter matters for small systems. It is also a drain during the day, affects needed PV array size.
Defroster would run 30 minutes or less per day. Compressor runs as little as a few hours per day to continuous.
You have to determine how much power consumed to size the system.
Start with the label, which lists watts and amps.
Look up a consumer energy label that estimates power consumed per year, e.g. 630 kWh/year. Divide by 365 to get daily consumption, e.g. 1.726 kWh or 1726 kW.
http://www.myfloridahomeenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Old-EnergyGuide-label-refrigerator.jpg
You could size battery to power that load for one 12 hour night, or for 60 hours without sun to cover two cloudy days.
Find an "insolation" calculator on-line that says how much sunshine your location gets, and what angle tilt of panels is optimal (or use the tilt of your roof, if to be mounted there.)
Summer gives more effective hours, winter fewer, like 7 vs. 2 hours for some locations. That lets you calculate how much PV panel needed.
There are some efficiency losses, so maybe 40% more needed.
Actual power consumption will vary with temperature and run-time of refrigerator.
You can get away with really small batteries if you run generator for those days not enough sun. And turning off inverter at night; frozen foods should stay cool until morning.
Automotive batteries usually aren't good for deep cycling. These claim surprisingly good cycle life, like 800 cycles to 80% DoD, so might last 2 years draining 80% each night.
2x 100Ah x 12V = 2400 Wh. Could configure as either 12V or 24V system without needing more batteries.
2400Wh x 80% = 1920Wh usable. 1920Wh/12 hours = 160W average load (compare to your calculation of consumption from energy label for two refrigerators.)
If you turned off inverters each night, then the batteries could last a decade.
If you turn off a power strip (or electronic timer) at night and leave inverter running for other loads, "no-load" power draw of inverter presents a drain on batteries. Might be 20W, might be 150W; this parameter matters for small systems. It is also a drain during the day, affects needed PV array size.
Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
Spit? :·)
My fridge uses 20Wh (60Wh for 20 minutes in the hour)... anyway, I have a budget inverter-charger. 3kW, 24V, €400 new.
I've had it for some... 9 months. It still works. I don't usually draw much from it, but occasionally I do.
The only problem I had with it, it's noisy (fans). I put it outside, I can't hear it any more :·)
[EDIT] Petrol is $4.50 per lt... where?
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My fridge uses 20Wh (60Wh for 20 minutes in the hour)... anyway, I have a budget inverter-charger. 3kW, 24V, €400 new.
I've had it for some... 9 months. It still works. I don't usually draw much from it, but occasionally I do.
The only problem I had with it, it's noisy (fans). I put it outside, I can't hear it any more :·)
[EDIT] Petrol is $4.50 per lt... where?
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Last edited:
I am in NZ and it is a holiday bach I have been building for about 8 years, adding a bedroom every couple of years. I probably go up 5 times a year for a week or two at a time. Have to get to it by boat or a long walk round the rocks. ( near the Bay of Islands, magical spot)
There is a small town nearby, hense $4.50 per litre.
We have been running a 2400is yamaha generator ( about 6 hours a day of an on) when we go there powering the fridge(no frezzer, 200lt) and a chest frezzer which we freeze water bottles in and put in the fridge at night. When running it also powers all the sockets in the house, washing machine phone chargers and battery charger. Lpg water heater and cooktop. We cook on the fire most nights if not raining.
I have installed a 120w solar panel, 100 ah battery and solar chager that power the LED lights for the last 6 years.
My sisters go up also and most times for the weekend so only need the fridge ( chest frezzer for long stays as we keep all our frozen food in there as a long trip to the supermarket) so with the price of fuel we have decided that It would be great to get the 200kw/year fridge running of solar and when we get more money add the 200w chest frezzer.
I am a builder and jack of all trades so have been researching frantically for the last week to sort out a system before we head up next month.
I am hoping to get away with the 2 x100 ah batteries with around 1000w solar panels inverter/ charger. Was looking at the Growatt 3kw 3000-s and others ( around $600 trade) after reading the manuals I found that they have to be connected to the grid. There dedicated off grid 3kw is $2500.
Hope that this gives you a better understanding of what I would like to achieve, if its possible for a small budget as only go up there about 5 weeks a year.
Thanks for the replies so far.
There is a small town nearby, hense $4.50 per litre.
We have been running a 2400is yamaha generator ( about 6 hours a day of an on) when we go there powering the fridge(no frezzer, 200lt) and a chest frezzer which we freeze water bottles in and put in the fridge at night. When running it also powers all the sockets in the house, washing machine phone chargers and battery charger. Lpg water heater and cooktop. We cook on the fire most nights if not raining.
I have installed a 120w solar panel, 100 ah battery and solar chager that power the LED lights for the last 6 years.
My sisters go up also and most times for the weekend so only need the fridge ( chest frezzer for long stays as we keep all our frozen food in there as a long trip to the supermarket) so with the price of fuel we have decided that It would be great to get the 200kw/year fridge running of solar and when we get more money add the 200w chest frezzer.
I am a builder and jack of all trades so have been researching frantically for the last week to sort out a system before we head up next month.
I am hoping to get away with the 2 x100 ah batteries with around 1000w solar panels inverter/ charger. Was looking at the Growatt 3kw 3000-s and others ( around $600 trade) after reading the manuals I found that they have to be connected to the grid. There dedicated off grid 3kw is $2500.
Hope that this gives you a better understanding of what I would like to achieve, if its possible for a small budget as only go up there about 5 weeks a year.
Thanks for the replies so far.
More research and was wondering if this would work:
2 x fullriver dc105-2 100ah. 25a max charge??
Epever tracer mppt solar charge controller 40a 30a 12/24 MT50 $197 aud.
Renogy 3000w 12v to 230v pure sine wave inverter, with UPS function $379 aud so I can plug it into my wall outlet which is connected to my 2400is generator ( here these have quiet fans? ) or
Epever ipower plus ip3000 12/24/48 inverter $735 aud ( here these fans are noisy? )
Hyundai 480w shingled PV x 2 or
Jinko solar tiger pro 415w half cell x 2
Or your thoughts please.
Appreciate all thoughts, 12/24 system, PV size and manufacturer, inverter and charger? ?
2 x fullriver dc105-2 100ah. 25a max charge??
Epever tracer mppt solar charge controller 40a 30a 12/24 MT50 $197 aud.
Renogy 3000w 12v to 230v pure sine wave inverter, with UPS function $379 aud so I can plug it into my wall outlet which is connected to my 2400is generator ( here these have quiet fans? ) or
Epever ipower plus ip3000 12/24/48 inverter $735 aud ( here these fans are noisy? )
Hyundai 480w shingled PV x 2 or
Jinko solar tiger pro 415w half cell x 2
Or your thoughts please.
Appreciate all thoughts, 12/24 system, PV size and manufacturer, inverter and charger? ?
MichaelK
Solar Wizard
Epever is good choice, though I would suggest upgrading to a larger capacity model, say at least their 5415AN. It can handle 150V instead of just 100V, and also can be utilized with a 48V system if you go that way. Their XX20AN series is even a better choice at 200V.
I would stay away from Renogy, though I would recommend building at least a 24V system. Since you are in NZ, I would think that Outback would be the ideal choice?
Either of those panel choices would be good, though I would suggest getting four instead of just two.
I would stay away from Renogy, though I would recommend building at least a 24V system. Since you are in NZ, I would think that Outback would be the ideal choice?
Either of those panel choices would be good, though I would suggest getting four instead of just two.
Thanks Michael, think the 5415AN is a great idea, cannot find the XX20AN. OUTBACK would be great but at 3k, way out of my pricerange. What do you think of the ip3000, more than I want to pay ? Is it noisy as will be inside so the locals wont steal it. ?
Happy to get 4 x 440w panels, or 3 if that will work for the fridge and add another panel later for the chest freezer. Will 2 x 100 ah batteries work?
Also thanks for suggesting 24v . Could you please expain your reasoning as I can always add another battery to 12v, or can I add another battery and make it 36v? Really dont understand if volts are better than amps or the other way around. Please remember that this system is really only for the fridge and chest frezzer.
Appreciate all help.
Happy to get 4 x 440w panels, or 3 if that will work for the fridge and add another panel later for the chest freezer. Will 2 x 100 ah batteries work?
Also thanks for suggesting 24v . Could you please expain your reasoning as I can always add another battery to 12v, or can I add another battery and make it 36v? Really dont understand if volts are better than amps or the other way around. Please remember that this system is really only for the fridge and chest frezzer.
Appreciate all help.
You maybe able to pick up a used lot for next to nothing if there is any NZ government incentives like over here in Australia. Solar installers were giving them away until only recently when used PV was being replaced. Now they mainly donate the used panels for a nominal amount to some charity that sends containers full off to a poor third world country like Kansas.
Here are the specs for Epever iPower Plus Lithium Compatible Pure Sine Wave Inverter IP3000-12L (12V 3000W)
Description
Epever’s digital intelligent IPower-plus series is a high-frequency pure sine wave inverter that converts 12/24/48VDC to 240VAC.
The wide input voltage range can support flooded, AGM, Gel and lithium batteries and are suitable for any DC to AC application such as Caravan, RV’s, 4WD, boats or permanent off-grid installation.
FEATURES
Easy to read the LSD display
Easy set-up
Input surge current suppression for Lithium batteries
Compatible with flooded, AGM, Gel & Lithium batteries
Phone and PC remote control through RS485 port
24 months warranty backed by local Australia business
Suitable for 4WD, caravan, RV’s and permanent off-grid installations
Input Protection for overload, short circuit, overheating
Description
Epever’s digital intelligent IPower-plus series is a high-frequency pure sine wave inverter that converts 12/24/48VDC to 240VAC.
The wide input voltage range can support flooded, AGM, Gel and lithium batteries and are suitable for any DC to AC application such as Caravan, RV’s, 4WD, boats or permanent off-grid installation.
FEATURES
Easy to read the LSD display
Easy set-up
Input surge current suppression for Lithium batteries
Compatible with flooded, AGM, Gel & Lithium batteries
Phone and PC remote control through RS485 port
24 months warranty backed by local Australia business
Suitable for 4WD, caravan, RV’s and permanent off-grid installations
Input Protection for overload, short circuit, overheating
Just check to make sure it meets Aus/Nz standards. There is nothing in the add that says it does.
even though they sell 12 volt 3000 watt generators doesn't mean that they will do 3000 watts of output , if you have a 100 amp BMS and a 12 volt battery you only have 1200 watts of output (12 v x 100 amps = 1200 watts ) you can get some battery's that have 200 amp BMS but thats still only 2400 watts , if your just running a fridge and a freezer you really don't need 3000 watts , a 1500 watt inverter would probably do it but 24 volts helps no matter inverter output.
MichaelK
Solar Wizard
Sorry about that. XX20AN was shorthand for either the Tracer 6420AN, the 8420AN, or the 10420AN, all 200V controllers that can handle 60, 80, and 100 amps respectively.
The reason 24V is better then 12, and why 48V is better than 24 is because watts equals "amps X volts". If you need to increase the power level by increasing watts, you may either increase the amps, or the volts (or both). It is easy to increase volts, because voltage is more or less independent of wire thickness as long as the insulation is good. More amps through a given wire though means more heat generated by the resistance of the wire. You can compensate a bit by using thicker wire, but once you get past a few hundred amps, the wire thickness gets ridiculous. It is far easier to work with 150V passing through a wire than 150A. You will save money with higher voltage just because the wire you use will be thinner and cheaper.
The solar industry is slowly standardizing on three standards, 12V, 24V, and 48V. There used to other standards, like 32V, and 36V, but those are getting phased out and it's harder and harder to find equipment utilizing those oddballs.
I would run from a 3000W 12V inverter! Advertising a 3000W inverter is mostly a marketing ploy, and not an honest product. I would be afraid that someone is going to set their place on fire trying to actually draw 3000W out of that thing. Do the math. 3000W/12V = 250A. Look at an wire-rating chart and see what gauge wire is considered safe to run 250A through it.
schmism
Solar Addict
Id argue if we are going to use the 5hrs of sunshine rule then you need to use 19hrs of battery. or 100w avg load.
Id vote for a MPP or growatt 2-3kw inverter in the 24v version. ($600-$800 USD) which one will depend on if your overseas and need the 230v only verison or 120v version.
for solar, if you want to put 2000w in batteries and run 100w worth of load over 5hrs of sun. youll need (2000+100*5)/5 = 500w of solar.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 20,861
5 effective hours sunshine might be average, and 2 hours in winter.
My 12 hours of battery suggestion is based on a winter night with 12 hours of darkness. Keep loads as small as possible when there is no sun.
I figure PV costs $0.025 to $0.05/kWh, so overpanel heavily, and orient some toward AM and PM sun. During the day, run everything from PV and charge batteries. Power refrigeration during the day, not at night.
I figure batteries cost $0.50/kWh, which is why I want to minimize batteries and maximize PV. (DIY and 3rd tier batteries are significantly less.)
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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My numbers never look this good.
But, it's hard to guess how much use you can get after the expected life cycle degradation.
Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
I get 8 hours of good charge at equinox. At 38° latitude. 9 to 5 winter time, 10 to 6 summer one. 5 at (winter) solstice.
Maybe I just have good panels :·)
A "good" charge, for me, is about 40-50% of panel rating, mind you.
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Maybe I just have good panels :·)
A "good" charge, for me, is about 40-50% of panel rating, mind you.
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schmism
Solar Addict
for the sake of napkin math we make a generalization that the sum of the area under the curve (everything in blue) is equal to 5hrs*pannel rated watts.
