Solar and the Economy Your Thoughts??? Or anything else on your mind!

[629658]

I am moving this discussion so the thread stays on topic.

Considering the current economic environment and world events is PV and or storage a reasonable investment?

 

[Mattb4]

Sorry your query can not be answered as asked. Please reformulate and resubmit including less subjective terms.

 

[Browse]

It depends on the reason for the PV and storage setup. For me, it is a primary backup power solution in the event of a prolonged grid down scenario. I consider it insurance, not an investment. I have batteries and an inverter (no PV) with a backup generator available for recharging. I imagine for many it is a necessary investment for "off grid" living situations. For others with available grid power, they want a return on investment in which case you'd have to do some math to see if the cost of the system pays for itself over time.

I would rephrase the question depending on your intended use case.

 

[740GLE]

I’ll answer you’re question.

Yes

Simple as that

I also view earthworm farms as a viable investment so take my advice as you see fit.

 

[Steve Fractals]

Not sure to your exact question but if its just, is it worth it to go solar then yes for me. I only have a small diy 6 panel system but with my low usage it is meaning I'm off-grid daytime when some sun is out. So far nightime isn't working out as I'm only getting an hour or so off my current lead acid batteries.

 

[629658]

I’ll answer you’re question.

Yes

Simple as that

I also view earthworm farms as a viable investment so take my advice as you see fit.

I like it

 

[Hedges]

PV, even including installation, is a fraction the cost of grid power in many locations. It is also reliable.
I think it makes economic sense with net metering. Without, maybe only if sufficient daytime loads.

Batteries, DIY or server rack, are also a fraction the cost of grid power. As a user-installed system I think they can make sense given otherwise unfavorable time of use rates, or where net metering terms are poor or unavailable. But it relies on your skilled and knowledgeable support.

Turnkey installed batteries may not make sense. Some recommended brands for use with SMA inverters cost as much or more than grid power when I checked. They may be getting more reasonable. I don't think you can get a turnkey system built with the low-cost batteries you select.

Support of these battery systems is going to be the issue. Given many different brands, I don't think you'll be able to call for support, either cost-effectively or at all. If a couple big brands (e.g. Tesla Powerwall) are priced to make economic sense, then they will probably be supportable at reasonable cost as well.

The grid, with utility sending maintenance workers, is a more efficient way to keep power on. Customer owned equipment (just breaker panels and wiring) has much lower failure rate than inverters, batteries, PV arrays.

 

[629658]

Sorry your query can not be answered as asked. Please reformulate and resubmit including less subjective terms.

I meant it to be as subjective as possible. I want opinions and outside the box thinkers.

 

[Mattb4]

I meant it to be as subjective as possible. I want opinions and outside the box thinkers.

How do you know you are outside the box if you do not define the box?

My opinion on solar is it has its use cases. It is not an investment for most individuals anymore than a clothes dryer is an investment. Our present world economic condition is that the total world debt of all countries and individuals is around $600 Trillion dollars. This in my opinion is unsustainable. I also think the population level is unsustainable based on dwindling resources.

PV is a terrible choice if you do not live where you have sufficient sunshine to make use of it either due to weather or location. It is also a bad choice if it has to be paid for by borrowing money. JMHO

 

[SparkyJJO]

How do you know you are outside the box if you do not define the box?

My opinion on solar is it has its use cases. It is not an investment for most individuals anymore than a clothes dryer is an investment. Our present world economic condition is that the total world debt of all countries and individuals is around $600 Trillion dollars. This in my opinion is unsustainable. I also think the population level is unsustainable based on dwindling resources.

PV is a terrible choice if you do not live where you have sufficient sunshine to make use of it either due to weather or location. It is also a bad choice if it has to be paid for by borrowing money. JMHO

I borrowed money for mine, but at 0.9% interest rate that's way below inflation, plus my average electric bill + payment costs less than the average electric bill without the PV would have been (particularly after the electric rate hike last year).

 

[EastTexCowboy]

Investment viability in DIY solar (this is, after all, a DIY forum) is subjective no matter how you cut it. What I can say with confidence is that it is WAY more viable than it was even a couple years ago. There are different opinions on whether it will get even more affordable in the near future. Typically, with any technology it gets cheaper over time, but there are a lot of factors at play, mostly related to supply chain issues. So maybe it will, maybe it won't.

If you look at it purely from a fiscal standpoint then it may be marginal, unless you can put together a system along the lines of what @timselectric has done. For me and a lot of others here, it's about more than the money. Insurance against grid failures or outages, being more self sufficient, and even doing solar because it's a fun hobby - these and other reasons all seem like good enough justification to me. Does that make it a reasonable investment? I dunno - it's subjective. ?

 

[45North]

Depends. It's a big planet.
There's no universal answer or are you just interested in the US?

 

[Mattb4]

I borrowed money for mine, but at 0.9% interest rate that's way below inflation, plus my average electric bill + payment costs less than the average electric bill without the PV would have been (particularly after the electric rate hike last year).

Fantastic interest rate. That is almost low enough that you are not borrowing money.

 

[WDB]

I have no doubts that having my own power generation will be worth the money, I just hope prices on Solar equipment don’t start rising as U.S. and China relations seem to be heading south.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

Local random poster on FB group: Any idea when the power will be back on?
Other random poster: Drunk driver hit a power pole. Utility Co is working on it.
Me sipping hot coffee: Again? When did that happen?

 

[Ampster]

I just hope prices on Solar equipment don’t start rising as U.S. and China relations seem to be heading south.

Final assembly of solar panels is also heading south, to Malaysia and Vietnam. I also would not be surprised to see some of it migrate to India. Capacity is building and unless demand increases above that capacity there will continue to be downward pressure on prices. Just my guess.

 

[Finca Life]

FWIW and I have posted this before but we were quoted 5500€ to get connected to the 'grid' (we are out of town). I installed 4.2kW panels with 5kW inverter, 5.12kWh battery and a 5kW diesel back up generator for around 6000€. Utility costs in Spain (like everywhere) are rising and our estimated (conservative) pay back time is 33 months and that doesn't take into account the 14-15kWh we throw at the house in free heating every day when it's sunny or the connection charges! We use more power now than we ever did on grid. It's an absolute no brainer for us. The generator hardly ever gets used and the majority of that is maintenance running. Obviously in less sunny climates you won't see the same results but can always add more panels. Most of all, we are buffered from the ever increasing costs and risk of blackouts by not relying on the utility companies and the government.

 

[acsscott]

Local random poster on FB group: Any idea when the power will be back on?
Other random poster: Drunk driver hit a power pole. Utility Co is working on it.
Me sipping hot coffee: Again? When did that happen?

Exactly!

 

[acsscott]

When Banks were only paying 0.06% CD interests, I cashed out a CD, bought $27K worth of solar and reversed my $345 per month electric bill to getting $9 - $40 per month. That was 12 years ago. $300 per month, $3600 per year, $43,200. CD rates have gone up and down in those 12 years, but I still think the solar has been a good investment. Probably not if you financed it or did not DIY.

 

[aenyc]

It depends on the reason for the PV and storage setup. For me, it is a primary backup power solution in the event of a prolonged grid down scenario. I consider it insurance, not an investment. I have batteries and an inverter (no PV) with a backup generator available for recharging. I imagine for many it is a necessary investment for "off grid" living situations. For others with available grid power, they want a return on investment in which case you'd have to do some math to see if the cost of the system pays for itself over time.

I would rephrase the question depending on your intended use case.

I second this.
I am also worried about future rationing scenarios that our friends in government will no doubtedly come up with in the future, especially once your personal carbon credit score has been exhausted for the month