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gatorhead

New Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2024
Messages
8
Location
Saylorsburg, Pennsylvania USA
I know there is a ton of information on this site, but I still would like some guidance to help me avoid costly mistakes, and be able to purchase quality, tried and true parts for my project. I have a small ranch home 2200 sq. ft. (1100sqft. basement, 1100sq ft. topside). My home has a 200Amp 120/240 power system with a Generac 24K emergency generator. I would like to start with building a 24-volt solar generator that will provide a minimum of 5kw continuous, with at least 7kw surge capability, and provide this power for at least 10 hours before recharging. Now, I live in NE Pennsylvania, at 1100ft above sea level, in the woods, on the side of a large foothill. My home faces North/South and my southern roof has sunshine all day, and my north roof in the afternoon until dusk. I have purchased 2ea. Dakota Lithium Pos-4 12V 200 Amp Hr. 2400 WH batteries to start. All responses will be appreciated, and thanks for your time!
Gatorhead
 
5kW * 10h = 50kWh of battery

You currently have 5.12kWh of battery.

Buy 8 more batteries.

Buy 12,000W ($12K including mounting/misc) of solar panels to generate 50kWh/day in very good conditions.

Buy 500A of PV charging (Could be as much as $3K).

Buy 6000W of inverters ($2-3K)
 
You'll be better off with 48V. Do your 12V batteries support 4 in series for 48V?

100 Ah 48V server rack batteries are particularly economical, some a bit less than your Dakotas. By the time you've got the kWh Sunshine recommends, they will have cost less.

EG4 PowerPro 280 Ah 48V is another attractive option. But first see what inverter + battery pair are available from a single brand.

You can get an AIO to keep things simple (some are dirt cheap, some cost more but have reputation or pedigree)
Or you can use separate components.
Look for something that is expandable, e.g. parallel second unit.
 
You'll be better off with 48V. Do your 12V batteries support 4 in series for 48V?

100 Ah 48V server rack batteries are particularly economical, some a bit less than your Dakotas. By the time you've got the kWh Sunshine recommends, they will have cost less.

EG4 PowerPro 280 Ah 48V is another attractive option. But first see what inverter + battery pair are available from a single brand.

You can get an AIO to keep things simple (some are dirt cheap, some cost more but have reputation or pedigree)
Or you can use separate components.
Look for something that is expandable, e.g. parallel second unit.

Come on now... it's more fun to tell him to go spend another $8K on the overpriced batteries he already has... just as an attention getter...

The constructive conversation happens AFTER they crap their pants a little. :p
 
I know there is a ton of information on this site, but I still would like some guidance to help me avoid costly mistakes, and be able to purchase quality, tried and true parts for my project. I have a small ranch home 2200 sq. ft. (1100sqft. basement, 1100sq ft. topside). My home has a 200Amp 120/240 power system with a Generac 24K emergency generator. I would like to start with building a 24-volt solar generator that will provide a minimum of 5kw continuous, with at least 7kw surge capability, and provide this power for at least 10 hours before recharging. Now, I live in NE Pennsylvania, at 1100ft above sea level, in the woods, on the side of a large foothill. My home faces North/South and my southern roof has sunshine all day, and my north roof in the afternoon until dusk. I have purchased 2ea. Dakota Lithium Pos-4 12V 200 Amp Hr. 2400 WH batteries to start. All responses will be appreciated, and thanks for your time!
Gatorhead
You should just seek professional advice
 
Yeh but they'll get what they need ,sure lot of advice about if you got endless pockets of drug dealer to pay for it
 
Yeh but they'll get what they need

No they won't.

,sure lot of advice about if you got endless pockets of drug dealer to pay for it

Free advice is worth at least what you pay for it. Advice from a professional is motivated by extracting as much money from the asker as possible. It's going to freaking cost you. That's how it works.

If you're asking about code requirements for a specific region, youbetcha - go see a professional in your area. If you're looking to learn at $0 invested, this is the place to be.

No one here is going to ask for a dime. While my answer was heavy on the $$, providing 50kWh of energy daily is a HUGE ask, and the response conveys that.

Hopefully, someone is realizing they defined their need very poorly OR that powering a bunch of bitcoin miners for 10 hours/day costs way more than what you'll get mining - not that we've ever seen that here. Ever.
 
When you said continuous, did you mean like all the time? You know like those wind generators? They produce all of the time. Well when the wind is blowing enough...

What you are asking would be impossible for me to procure. I would be very content to having 1000 watts continuous, like all the time. Especially at night. But my financial situation would never be at a point that was even possible. Batteries get expensive. They get even more expensive when you want grid power without the grid attached.

Not that consuming 5k watts an hour is that much from the grid. Just a lot to expect to be continuous, as in all the time, when not connected to the grid at all. Some days the sun just does not want to cooperate. Then you fall back on the batteries. A few days of bad weather and there goes your independent source of power. It then becomes Darkness Falls. And you sits and waits for the sun to come back.

One drawback for requiring that much power all of the time, is well when there is no sun. The next day you have sun has to make up for the missing days and what is still currently being used. So just about doubling what is needed to replacing for every day you go without sunlight.

Think about compounded interest that is being withdrawn from your bank account instead of added. Eventually you run out of money if it is not replaced regularly. Or when there is little or no sunlight. What happens when you have a very rainy spring? What about winter time when the days are too short to make up for lost time? A nice snowy Christmas could leave you in the dark.

Drawing 5k watts during prime time is not too difficult. It is the after hours that becomes a problem. In ideal conditions, it works out hypothetically on paper. Just dont factor in hours when the sun is not directly overhead. or at night.

That far up north, there might only about 4 good hours of sunlight per day to produce what you are asking for. That is a perfect day that has to repeat every day all year long. OK I am going to say what you are wanting is not very realistic at all.
 
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And still to this day I have no clue to what bitcoin mining is or had anyone that could really explain it. I know a guy who invested early on in bitcoin and made a good chunk of profit. But he cant even tell me what it is he owns.
 
And still to this day I have no clue to what bitcoin mining is or had anyone that could really explain it. I know a guy who invested early on in bitcoin and made a good chunk of profit. But he cant even tell me what it is he owns.

Simple - it is a ponzi scheme where people in early used their computers to generate numbers and then they valued them arbitrary. After that people that do nothing called influences talked about it and the general public got in on the deal.

Now those 'invested' in it value it to much to admit it is nothing in reality and is only good for buying illegal things.

If new people stopped buying it with real money the whole thing would collapse. Actually the whole thing could collapse at anytime but because the general public is silly and can't understand it they think it MUST be valuable.

note - I say real money with tongue in cheek since most of ours is just a set of bits in a computer too...
 
It's is a speculative digital currency with no underlying value other than an impression of scarcity.

"Mining" is running purpose built computers to "crunch" an algorithm that can yield the discovery of a "bitcoin".

It is vaguely analogous to a commodity future... but with no underlying commodity other than an idea of something that has value.

My ONLY regret is I didn't invest about $1K in them when they were around $200. I was so close to pulling the trigger.... :p
 
I know there is a ton of information on this site, but I still would like some guidance to help me avoid costly mistakes,
Welcome to the DIY Solar Forum, we are all here to share and help, and occationally make a few jokes, don't take any of it too seriously.
We can help you avoid mistakes, but it may mean doing some homework, and listening to things you don't like to hear. just so you know!

and be able to purchase quality, tried and true parts for my project.
In solar, you generally get what you pay for. but there are some crappy products with great marketing ...beware.
Starting with buying instead of starting with research and asking the knowledgeable members here was likely your first mistake. But don't worry we all made mistakes somewhere along the line in going solar, I did too. consider it a learning experience.

I have a small ranch home 2200 sq. ft. (1100sqft. basement, 1100sq ft. topside). My home has a 200Amp 120/240 power system with a Generac 24K emergency generator.
Great information to set the stage, but not enough detail - do you have a year of electrical utility bills that would inform you (and us) of you typical electrical consumption per day per month per season. This is a good start to what every memeber on here will tell you to start with - and energy audit.
If you are planning any significant changes from the loads your utility bills were powering, you need to add those new loads to the calculation - there is a handy spreadsheet in the resources section. ie if you want to add an EV this is a big load, and you need to know how much additional power this will take over your utility bill information.

You have a 24kW back up genny - good to know, it can be helpful during poor periods of PV (solar).
Which leads to the very next thing you will want to find out - go to PVWatts online - and plug in you location, pick a 1kW PV array size and plug in your latitude as the PV angle - see what PV Watts spits out per kW of PV panels. record this information, especially the worst months like Dec Jan.

I would like to start with building a 24-volt solar generator
Stop right there - why 24 volt?
typically the members here will suggest 12v 1-2kW output, 24v 2-3 kw output and 48v for everything above 3kW output - might want to reconsider.

that will provide a minimum of 5kw continuous,
are you sure? 5kW continuous x 10 hours per day is 50kWh per day, the average N.American home is typically 30 or so.
Maybe you need this, or maybe your thinking of things like A/C loads but those don't run in winter. Just check your real peak load, and daily average total power requirement, per season, then plan around the information. Solar and A/C work well together since hot summers and long solar days occur together.

with at least 7kw surge capability, and provide this power for at least 10 hours before recharging.
see above.
Now, I live in NE Pennsylvania, at 1100ft above sea level, in the woods, on the side of a large foothill. My home faces North/South and my southern roof has sunshine all day, and my north roof in the afternoon until dusk.
If you put PV on the roof of your home, there are NEC requirements that come into play. These include Automatic Shutdown, and Arc Fault detection and disconnection. Some solar equipment is designed with these two features integrated into them, and others are not. Many members on the DIY forum chose to mount solar PV on ground mounts instead of their roof, in part to avoid the need for ASD and AFDD, best to know in advance and plan accordingly.

I have purchased 2ea. Dakota Lithium Pos-4 12V 200 Amp Hr. 2400 WH batteries to start. All responses will be appreciated, and thanks for your time!
Gatorhead
It is typically not a great idea to use 12v batteries for 24 and 48v systems. You may want to reconsider what batteries you use for your system and repurpose those Dakota's for another project like an RV or mobile set up. Or just return or sell them. Yeah, I warned you there may be advice you will not want to hear, but it is honest advice none the less.
 
Welcome to the DIY Solar Forum, we are all here to share and help, and occationally make a few jokes, don't take any of it too seriously.
We can help you avoid mistakes, but it may mean doing some homework, and listening to things you don't like to hear. just so you know!


In solar, you generally get what you pay for. but there are some crappy products with great marketing ...beware.
Starting with buying instead of starting with research and asking the knowledgeable members here was likely your first mistake. But don't worry we all made mistakes somewhere along the line in going solar, I did too. consider it a learning experience.


Great information to set the stage, but not enough detail - do you have a year of electrical utility bills that would inform you (and us) of you typical electrical consumption per day per month per season. This is a good start to what every memeber on here will tell you to start with - and energy audit.
If you are planning any significant changes from the loads your utility bills were powering, you need to add those new loads to the calculation - there is a handy spreadsheet in the resources section. ie if you want to add an EV this is a big load, and you need to know how much additional power this will take over your utility bill information.

You have a 24kW back up genny - good to know, it can be helpful during poor periods of PV (solar).
Which leads to the very next thing you will want to find out - go to PVWatts online - and plug in you location, pick a 1kW PV array size and plug in your latitude as the PV angle - see what PV Watts spits out per kW of PV panels. record this information, especially the worst months like Dec Jan.


Stop right there - why 24 volt?
typically the members here will suggest 12v 1-2kW output, 24v 2-3 kw output and 48v for everything above 3kW output - might want to reconsider.


are you sure? 5kW continuous x 10 hours per day is 50kWh per day, the average N.American home is typically 30 or so.
Maybe you need this, or maybe your thinking of things like A/C loads but those don't run in winter. Just check your real peak load, and daily average total power requirement, per season, then plan around the information. Solar and A/C work well together since hot summers and long solar days occur together.


see above.

If you put PV on the roof of your home, there are NEC requirements that come into play. These include Automatic Shutdown, and Arc Fault detection and disconnection. Some solar equipment is designed with these two features integrated into them, and others are not. Many members on the DIY forum chose to mount solar PV on ground mounts instead of their roof, in part to avoid the need for ASD and AFDD, best to know in advance and plan accordingly.


It is typically not a great idea to use 12v batteries for 24 and 48v systems. You may want to reconsider what batteries you use for your system and repurpose those Dakota's for another project like an RV or mobile set up. Or just return or sell them. Yeah, I warned you there may be advice you will not want to hear, but it is honest advice none the less.

OMG... you just HAD to be constructive... :p
 
It's is a speculative digital currency with no underlying value other than an impression of scarcity.

"Mining" is running purpose built computers to "crunch" an algorithm that can yield the discovery of a "bitcoin".

It is vaguely analogous to a commodity future... but with no underlying commodity other than an idea of something that has value.

And I will add one more day still not knowing what the heck bitcoin is or about...

If someone said it was a future take over of American currency or attempt at world domination pushing a digital currency I will be more likely to believe it.
 
I know there is a ton of information on this site, but I still would like some guidance to help me avoid costly mistakes, and be able to purchase quality, tried and true parts for my project. I have a small ranch home 2200 sq. ft. (1100sqft. basement, 1100sq ft. topside). My home has a 200Amp 120/240 power system with a Generac 24K emergency generator. I would like to start with building a 24-volt solar generator that will provide a minimum of 5kw continuous, with at least 7kw surge capability, and provide this power for at least 10 hours before recharging. Now, I live in NE Pennsylvania, at 1100ft above sea level, in the woods, on the side of a large foothill. My home faces North/South and my southern roof has sunshine all day, and my north roof in the afternoon until dusk. I have purchased 2ea. Dakota Lithium Pos-4 12V 200 Amp Hr. 2400 WH batteries to start. All responses will be appreciated, and thanks for your time!
Gatorhead
Poor little fella… his first comments/ question trying find out some info and he gets trounced by the members .
As Wally Cleaver said “giving him the business” …part of the initiation I guess….

Hey OP guy….ya gotta grow a skin to play here .. they will nip ya to death like a pack of Chihuahuas if they find you bought a pre-made battery of certain brands…. 🤣…..

Glad to see you’re trying …..

Have patience and they will help…lotta good knowledge here..

Good luck man….J.
 
And I will add one more day still not knowing what the heck bitcoin is or about...

If someone said it was a future take over of American currency or attempt at world domination pushing a digital currency I will be more likely to believe it.

Yet I understand it is also a subversive way to overturn the tables of the money changers and throw them out of the temple.

Cryptocurrency can be used for lightning fast, low cost efficient transfers between currencies of different countries in different locations, avoiding the large exchange rate spread enjoyed by financial institutions. If you chopped a large transaction into tiny pieces and did the exchange in many parts, you would avoid the risk of being burned by the cryptocurrency price changes (set a circuit breaker to stop subsequent transfers if the rate didn't work out right.)

Like all things, it can also be used for speculation, not hedging etc. Pork belly futures? Options? Those have their legitimate uses too.
 
Yet I understand it is also a subversive way to overturn the tables of the money changers and throw them out of the temple.

Cryptocurrency can be used for lightning fast, low cost efficient transfers between currencies of different countries in different locations, avoiding the large exchange rate spread enjoyed by financial institutions. If you chopped a large transaction into tiny pieces and did the exchange in many parts, you would avoid the risk of being burned by the cryptocurrency price changes (set a circuit breaker to stop subsequent transfers if the rate didn't work out right.)

Like all things, it can also be used for speculation, not hedging etc. Pork belly futures? Options? Those have their legitimate uses too.
I made a ton on bellies , sugar and beans, back in the late 90’s…love the commodities…
 
Pork belly futures? Options?
I made a ton on bellies
I grow em in the west pasture two at a time, they are always named 'Pork Chop and Bacon', and in about 7 months in the "Future" they will be moving into one of the three freezers.
Home made and smoked thick cut (Canadian Style) bacon yum yum! now that is My kind of investing in pork belly futures. okay I gona go fry up some of last year's futures... you guys are making me hungry :ROFLMAO:
 
I grow em in the west pasture two at a time, they are always named 'Pork Chop and Bacon', and in about 7 months in the "Future" they will be moving into one of the three freezers.
Home made and smoked thick cut (Canadian Style) bacon yum yum! now that is My kind of investing in pork belly futures. okay I gona go fry up some of last year's futures... you guys are making me hungry :ROFLMAO:
Wright’s , 3 lb thick cut , applewood smoked , premium cut stuff.…marvelous …!!!
 
Poor little fella… his first comments/ question trying find out some info and he gets trounced by the members .
As Wally Cleaver said “giving him the business” …part of the initiation I guess….

Hey OP guy….ya gotta grow a skin to play here .. they will nip ya to death like a pack of Chihuahuas if they find you bought a pre-made battery of certain brands…. 🤣…..

Glad to see you’re trying …..

Have patience and they will help…lotta good knowledge here..

Good luck man….J.
Ha! Ha! No, I did get the info I needed for now!
 
When you said continuous, did you mean like all the time? You know like those wind generators? They produce all of the time. Well when the wind is blowing enough...

What you are asking would be impossible for me to procure. I would be very content to having 1000 watts continuous, like all the time. Especially at night. But my financial situation would never be at a point that was even possible. Batteries get expensive. They get even more expensive when you want grid power without the grid attached.

Not that consuming 5k watts an hour is that much from the grid. Just a lot to expect to be continuous, as in all the time, when not connected to the grid at all. Some days the sun just does not want to cooperate. Then you fall back on the batteries. A few days of bad weather and there goes your independent source of power. It then becomes Darkness Falls. And you sits and waits for the sun to come back.

One drawback for requiring that much power all of the time, is well when there is no sun. The next day you have sun has to make up for the missing days and what is still currently being used. So just about doubling what is needed to replacing for every day you go without sunlight.

Think about compounded interest that is being withdrawn from your bank account instead of added. Eventually you run out of money if it is not replaced regularly. Or when there is little or no sunlight. What happens when you have a very rainy spring? What about winter time when the days are too short to make up for lost time? A nice snowy Christmas could leave you in the dark.

Drawing 5k watts during prime time is not too difficult. It is the after hours that becomes a problem. In ideal conditions, it works out hypothetically on paper. Just dont factor in hours when the sun is not directly overhead. or at night.

That far up north, there might only about 4 good hours of sunlight per day to produce what you are asking for. That is a perfect day that has to repeat every day all year long. OK I am going to say what you are wanting is not very realistic at all.
Ok, this is info I need to start, Thanks. So, I think it would be good to scale down for now, how about a 24V 3k system intermittently used. I can charge my batteries as long as propane is available, solar charging would be the last resort.
 
OMG... you just HAD to be constructive... :p
Ok, thanks a million! I needed a reality check to start, so I'm very happy with all the responses! Especially yours! Ok so solar cells on the ground, it would be nice to be able move them to follow the sun. So, how about I stick with a 24V 3KW intermittently used to run lights at night, keep a refer just cold enough to keep food cold. Run a pellet stove in winter (PA of 624 Watts). Intermittently run a deep well pump for fresh water. I need to build at least a 3KW unit to qualify for deducting 40% of the cost on my income tax. Thanks again for your Info.
 

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