Off grid but still receive a utility bill
- Thread starter Farm Boy
- Start date
Put more properly, "allocate resources" should be interpreted as whether or not you want to provide assistance to anyone. If you simplify it down to adjust consumption to match income, then you face a real problem. This problem is IMO that people who have lower income may be intellectually capable of discovering material wealth and nutritional advantages that are out of their reach and become disgruntled. And a disgruntled mass of people often leads to a society where even the wealthy are not too happy.
Sounds a bit like Dickens: “‘My other piece of advice, Copperfield,’ said Mr. Micawber, ‘you know. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.”
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,481
The alternate approach is far worse, and has been in practice for a century in the United States.
People were once eager to work and keep what they earned, and to finally attend school and learn. They did well.
When school becomes compulsory, troublemakers can't be expelled because they are entitled to education, education doesn't happen.
When people are given everything they need to live and not obligated to do anything in return, they don't.
Better to be willing to let people starve to death, and to have sufficient force/security available to stop attacks and stealing.
Offer work with food and pay in exchange. Maybe as public works projects, e.g. build roads and dams.
Then the life and future of each individual is up to him to choose.
"The Devil finds work for idle hands."
Nobodybusiness
Solar Sponge.
Yes they can because the infrastructure is already in place and has been for 50 years.
Doesn’t cost them shit to clear a few trees every 10 years.
Meanwhile I’m still being charged.
As a matter of fact my fee “Just to have the right to use electricity “ went up $5 a month is now $50 a month.
It’s BS is what it is..
Paying $45/mon here for keep in place. You're getting a bargain!
OzSolar
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.
Like little baby pool cues? I can show myself out.
Pretty much everything Utilities do is BS, I would know, I worked for several back in the 90's and still do side work consulting on utility issues.
However they do an insanely impressive job keeping the power on to all of thier customers at a nearly 6 sigma level (99.9999). 4 Sigma is 99.99% and that is about 1 hour per yr. It's been years since I lost my power for more than one hour total in a year and that was a squirrel that committed suicide on my transformer thus only affecting me.
From my viewpoint: I'd like to offer that cost them a lot to build it and they are completely entitled to a return on that investment. Annual upkeep is no joke either, I've seen the numbers.
That's worth well more than $27.50 per month they charge me. At $50 month I'll start to get irritated but I'll keep paying it with a pretend smile on my face. $100 per month might be where I'd tell them to come get thier meter but maybe not. I've got better things to do then be my own full time utility.
Last edited:
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,481
You must be from Missouri
In San Jose and Oakland, I've had power outages of multiple hours multiple times per year for the past several years.
My minimum monthly charge is 1/2 or 1/3 what you're paying, but I'll bet your rates can't hold a candle to my $0.40 ~ $0.65/kWh rates.
For one property, I requested 50 kVA 3-phase service, because I saw 12kV 3-phase on a pole 150' away. For one transformer hung on nearby pole and 200' x 3 conductors, they quoted me $150,000.
In San Jose and Oakland, I've had power outages of multiple hours multiple times per year for the past several years.
My minimum monthly charge is 1/2 or 1/3 what you're paying, but I'll bet your rates can't hold a candle to my $0.40 ~ $0.65/kWh rates.
For one property, I requested 50 kVA 3-phase service, because I saw 12kV 3-phase on a pole 150' away. For one transformer hung on nearby pole and 200' x 3 conductors, they quoted me $150,000.
OzSolar
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.
I'm sorry, I'm not seeing your point if there is one, Show-Me state and all that. 
Sounds like you're at 3 Sigma, 99.9% up-time. Still not too shabby compared to many parts of Patagonia, Puerto Rico and Mexico that I've worked in.
~13 cents per kWh here but lots of scary talk about demand charges (not TOU) coming in the near future.
Sounds like you're at 3 Sigma, 99.9% up-time. Still not too shabby compared to many parts of Patagonia, Puerto Rico and Mexico that I've worked in.
~13 cents per kWh here but lots of scary talk about demand charges (not TOU) coming in the near future.
SparkyGage
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2019
- Messages
- 127
Just for reference: My "Customer Charge with Entergy Arkansas is $8.40.
OzSolar
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.
Show off
To get three phase on in an Australian house in most areas is about $1500Au (no transformer needed, just replace the two wire feed from the street with a four wire feed)- in some rural areas you may need a transformer which is about $3000 for a 3 phase one...
That makes my $45000 quote for mains (single phase transformer from a SWER (single wire, earth return) cable out the front look cheap lol although offgrid solar was far cheaper... but that was for a 500m/1600ft run...
SparkyGage
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2019
- Messages
- 127
Considering I'm about 100 yards outside of the city limits and have had a half dozen or more outages since the beginning of the year, I'm not surprised it's so cheap. ....
... or maybe I am surprised. They have been having to do a lot of repairs on the lines. ...Agreed. Southern Company charges a “meter fee” more than that.
Nobodybusiness
Solar Sponge.
Considering the same poles and same copper have been in place out here since the 60s I would say they made their money back in spades.
The last time I saw them replace a pole, transformer, fuse was when this old red neck boy decided that PBR and a Dodge Ram at 100mph was a good idea .
Other than that they send Asplundh out every 10 years to cut some limbs.
Well, it isn't ALL in what you can see from your driveway. There is probably a decent amount of infrastructure involved in actually generating the power that flows in the lines.
Put it this way, maybe it will make a bit more sense. How much would you charge your neighbor per month to plug into your solar/battery array? Remember you must provide them with whatever amount of power they desire, from 0 kwh per day to 100kwh per day. You will need to upgrade your array and batteries to account for this. $13 a month sound about right?
Nobodybusiness
Solar Sponge.
Hasn’t been any infrastructure upgrades in this county for decades.
It’s not just what I can see from the driveway.
Lived here in various homes for 30+ years.
Regardless they are collecting $50 per household just have a meter.
I’m not a Utility. I can’t generate electricity @ .03 per KW and charge .15 for it.
I suspect many think that running a generator and its distribution system costs nothing more than running a car...
I know that one of the mines I worked at here in Australia, they had a 5MW generator, and the annual upkeep costs ran into millions- and that was for just the mine and its use (all contained in an area only 5km by 5km)
I suspect that an entire state (even ones as small as US states) would run considerably higher...
They have to budget for routine maintenance, breakdowns and fault location/repairs, capacity upgrades etc etc- that all takes money and lots of it...
(I find it highly unlikely that 'nothing has been done for decades' considering that residential housing usage has almost exxactly doubled in the time between 1970 and 2020)
I know that one of the mines I worked at here in Australia, they had a 5MW generator, and the annual upkeep costs ran into millions- and that was for just the mine and its use (all contained in an area only 5km by 5km)
I suspect that an entire state (even ones as small as US states) would run considerably higher...
They have to budget for routine maintenance, breakdowns and fault location/repairs, capacity upgrades etc etc- that all takes money and lots of it...
(I find it highly unlikely that 'nothing has been done for decades' considering that residential housing usage has almost exxactly doubled in the time between 1970 and 2020)
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2020
- Messages
- 2,789
Last year, So Cal Edison had to change out about a dozen transformers in my area to add capacity as the population here has doubled in less than 20 years. There are two huge hillsides that were vacant when I moved here, and now they are covered with homes and more and more of the homes around me have an EV in the driveway. We were notified a week in advance that the power would go out for about 2 hours as they changed the transformer feeding my block.
I am sure some of the upgrades also help with the amount of power being pushed back by the huge amount of PV solar panels all around me now. A mobile home park has installed thousands of panels all along a hillside. It looks pretty tacky and there are still lawsuits going on about it.
scvnews.com
Our local water company installed some huge arrays to help power the pumps. Are they are all grid tied? When the pump cycle off, a I'll bet a lot of that power is going back into the grid. The news clip claims 3.5 megawatts of solar.
www.hometownstation.com
I do not have any issue with a $12 a month charge to have the grid there when I need it. And I am very happy they are letting me pay that $12 a month with my export credits from last year. I totally understand not giving us (solar customers) a free ride. Their power lines need to carry power in both directions now. I just don't want to be penalized for not using power.
I am sure some of the upgrades also help with the amount of power being pushed back by the huge amount of PV solar panels all around me now. A mobile home park has installed thousands of panels all along a hillside. It looks pretty tacky and there are still lawsuits going on about it.
Solar Panel Lawsuit: City Wants to Inspect; Owners Object - SCVNews.com
The legal battle against a Canyon Country solar panel installation hit an impasse Friday as owners fight a city of Santa Clarita inspection.
scvnews.com
Our local water company installed some huge arrays to help power the pumps. Are they are all grid tied? When the pump cycle off, a I'll bet a lot of that power is going back into the grid. The news clip claims 3.5 megawatts of solar.
Water Agency Celebrates New Solar Panels In Saugus
Officials celebrated the operation of the CLWA’s newest field of beams Thursday, a 3.5-acre plot of solar panels expected to save SCV ratepayers millions
www.hometownstation.com
I do not have any issue with a $12 a month charge to have the grid there when I need it. And I am very happy they are letting me pay that $12 a month with my export credits from last year. I totally understand not giving us (solar customers) a free ride. Their power lines need to carry power in both directions now. I just don't want to be penalized for not using power.
When they removed all the utility company equipment from my property earlier this year they said the transformer I had looked like the original from the 1940's along with the poles which were treated with who knows what to last that long. They do contract out with a company that does actually inspect every pole in their territory once every 10 years
Interestingly- the rooftop solar in the town where I grew up in (and still have friends)- has staved off needing a substation upgrade for literally decades now!!!!Last year, So Cal Edison had to change out about a dozen transformers in my area to add capacity as the population here has doubled in less than 20 years. There are two huge hillsides that were vacant when I moved here, and now they are covered with homes and more and more of the homes around me have an EV in the driveway. We were notified a week in advance that the power would go out for about 2 hours as they changed the transformer feeding my block.
I am sure some of the upgrades also help with the amount of power being pushed back by the huge amount of PV solar panels all around me now. A mobile home park has installed thousands of panels all along a hillside. It looks pretty tacky and there are still lawsuits going on about it.
Solar Panel Lawsuit: City Wants to Inspect; Owners Object - SCVNews.com
The legal battle against a Canyon Country solar panel installation hit an impasse Friday as owners fight a city of Santa Clarita inspection.
Our local water company installed some huge arrays to help power the pumps. Are they are all grid tied? When the pump cycle off, a I'll bet a lot of that power is going back into the grid. The news clip claims 3.5 megawatts of solar.
Water Agency Celebrates New Solar Panels In Saugus
Officials celebrated the operation of the CLWA’s newest field of beams Thursday, a 3.5-acre plot of solar panels expected to save SCV ratepayers millions
I do not have any issue with a $12 a month charge to have the grid there when I need it. And I am very happy they are letting me pay that $12 a month with my export credits from last year. I totally understand not giving us (solar customers) a free ride. Their power lines need to carry power in both directions now. I just don't want to be penalized for not using power.
The original substation was intended for a town with a population of only 5000, when it grew to 10000 in the 1980's, there were warnings that they would have to expand its capacity by the mid 1990's at the latest (which meant part of the local sportsfield would need to be taken over)- and yet because of gridtie solars massive surge here in Australia starting in the mid 1990's, they are STILL (in 2024) using the exact same substation they were using back then... with a population now over 25000- five times what it was originally design for- and much more power thirsty houses to boot...
One noticeable difference is that 'offpeak' HWS (not that they are that common anymore compared to solar HWS) now heat the water during the middle of the day instead of after midnight- taking advantage of that 'solar peak'
Nobodybusiness
Solar Sponge.
Believe what you will.
32% increase in population from 1971 to 2024.
30000 to 40000 and most of that in the 80s.
We are still paying $50 a month for infrastructure that hasn’t changed in decades.
$50 a month. $600 year just for privilege of having a meter.
$1,000,000 month just from our county alone for access fees and that doesn’t include the charge for usage.
When I moved to this county 34 years ago in 1990
There was no access fee.
No new substation, upgrades or anything have been done but what started out as $0 access fee is now $50.
So either our county is subsidizing other counties growth or that money is going in someone’s pocket.
Nobodybusiness
Solar Sponge.
I believe that.
OzSolar
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.
Why do you still have a connection to the grid then?
Nobodybusiness
Solar Sponge.
December and part of January although that is even becoming debatable.
Why should we be paying $50 a month when everyone I have seen on here is half that or less.
We do not have 90% of our people on Solar so the very notion is ridiculous.
If we have 1% off grid or even partially off grid I would be very surprised.
It’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
The ones who can will go 100% off grid and leave everyone else to pick up the tab.
Similar threads
