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What happens when grid power fail lasts longer than my batter backup

RonFreddy

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Los Gatos, CA
I am designing a solar system with 20 x 400 watt panels and 2 x powerwall 3 batteries for my residence using 1000 kWh/month. What happens during an extended power failure when the batteries are exhausted? Can I still use my solar panels on a sunny day to run selected circuits in my house?
 
If you design it correctly yes.

If you have a dc coupled hybrid inverter, it is a given that you can use the solar panels to charge the batteries.

If you have an AC coupled inverter, you may not be able to start charging the batteries, that's where the devil is in the details. Something needs to trigger the AC current to charge. AFAIK, the newer equipment is more likely to do do this like the newer Enphase product line compared to the older stuff. I guess the newest Tesla powerwall has an option for off grid.

If you are using 1 mWh/ month, you still need to plan the outage to be on the peak month. My summer months use 6 times the electricity of the winter months.
 
I am designing a solar system with 20 x 400 watt panels and 2 x powerwall 3 batteries for my residence using 1000 kWh/month. What happens during an extended power failure when the batteries are exhausted? Can I still use my solar panels on a sunny day to run selected circuits in my house?

Yes, with the Tesla Powerwall's you can use your solar panels to power the house and/or charge the batteries during an outage assuming the Tesla grid disconnect is installed. That has always been true with the Powerwall, it's not something new with the latest Powerwall 3.
 
What happens during an extended power failure when the batteries are exhausted? Can I still use my solar panels on a sunny day to run selected circuits in my house?
Yes, however if the batteries are exhausted because there is more household load than the PV can cover then you are SOL. The batteries will need some charge and the PV needs to be supplying more than the loads demand. IOW you will likely need to reduce load.

Generally wiring is arranged such that some power hungry circuits are excluded from receiving backup power.
 
A gasoline/diesel/propane generator is the cheapest option for a force multiplier.. If your system allows for battery charging while operating on the generator you will find that this is the most thrifty way to utilize your system.. Most times there is a small load that is hardly worth having the generator spinning for like a couple lights or a TV.. During these low usage times if the batteries can take that charge then the generator is more fully utilized and you can give it breaks when your solar is producing well or you want to draw power from full batteries..
 
I have a 11kW solar system which generates about 50-60 kWhs a day during the summer. I also have a battery pack and use about 15kWh overnight. That means about 15kWhs of my morning production recharges the batteries and carries the house load which is 500-1000 Watts per hour. In the afternoon when the batteries are charged, I put some of that energy into one of my EVs and send the balance to the grid.

If I have a power outage the same cycle continues except that I can't send any extra to the grid. If it is hot I would be able to turn on my heat pump Air Conditioner and I might even turn down the thermostat to cool the home so as the sun sets, I don't have to use battery power to run the A/C.
 
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Not sure Tesla's Powerwall has that capability.
I had heard that from also. No grid = no solar and if you take those batteries completely to zero it requires a manual restart that a homeowner can't do. To fair that's been a few years ago so be sure to get more input.
 
I had heard that from also. No grid = no solar and if you take those batteries completely to zero it requires a manual restart that a homeowner can't do. To fair that's been a few years ago so be sure to get more input.
Tesla allows you to set a low limit (usually 10%?) that it'll save as a reserve. Then every hour during daylight it'll try to power up the local micro-grid and see if the solar is greater than the load. If not it'll go back to sleep for another hour. Seems needlessly complex, but that's a side-effect of them doing AC coupling.
 
I would hope the system is designed to charge the battery from solar. Inverter would then supply power to the house.
Although if there is any doubt go ahead and cut power once and see what works. Even go a few days and monitor the battery closely.

During an actual power outage is a good time to conserve and use less power.
 
but that's a side-effect of them doing AC coupling.
It definitely is a side effect but you have to give Tesla credit for leveraging AC coupling, so it could retrofit existing solar installations, which was their initial market. The first time I heard the term AC coupling was at the rollout of the first Powerwall in 2015 at the Tesla Design Center. My Outback Radian at that time could not do AC coupling and in 2018 when I bought an Outback Skybox. it took Outback nine months to enable AC coupling in the Skybox.
 
I would hope the system is designed to charge the battery from solar. Inverter would then supply power to the house.
DC-coupled systems, that's how they work. AC-coupled systems need the inverter to power up and make AC for the panels to sync to and produce power. #Catch22
Although if there is any doubt go ahead and cut power once and see what works. Even go a few days and monitor the battery closely.
Definitely test all realistic situations so you know what to expect!
During an actual power outage is a good time to conserve and use less power.
Indeed! I'm just testing some code to automatically turn AC splits on and off depending on SOC, so I don't have to manually control loads, but with a good understanding of your system and a guess at the future weather (the sun will come up tomorrow, or there's a hurricane headed your way) will allow you to tune your habits to minimize generator runs (or grid purchases).
 
Will you stick with a tesla powerwall, or would you consider a DC coupled hybrid?

If you go other than Tesla, there are many hybrid inverter choices out there that will give you many choices. I have a critical loads panel which separates itself form the from during peak hours and runs off batteries and is recharged by the sun at the same time. The one time it was overpowered, it switched back to on-grid mode. If the grid were down, the inverter may fault off, but I can turn it back on. Not sure Tesla gives you that type of control.
 
Just to clarify, the Powerwall has always had the ability to backup and AC couple with solar when the grid is down. The PW3 now has DC coupling capability so I presume it can blackstart.
No need to clarify on my part but I have been on Tesla residential sites when I worked in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria that crashed and would not blackstart. It was a very hectic time so I didn't get all the details since I was one of just handful of electricians. We had no choice but to abandon them and move onto the next site to try to help them.
 
Will you stick with a tesla powerwall, or would you consider a DC coupled hybrid?
Not sure who this is directed at, the OP didn't mention Tesla. I have EG4 18Kpv and PowerPro batteries, and I'd do it again. I had three grid-tied inverters and the switch to battery power _could_ have preserved some of them in AC-coupled mode, but once I looked at all the additional complexities I threw them out and went with EG4.
 

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