magic8192
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2021
- Messages
- 69
This has worked better than I could imagine. I get paid very little for the solar I push onto the grid, so this maximizes my solar power usage and benefits me, not the power company. The power bill stats told me that the hot water heater was 19% of my power bill, but the power bill went down about 25% after installing the timer.This is awesome. I love it.
That is my issue with grid-ties: sure the consumer ‘saves’ money but the direct-to-grid is nearly always biased to benefit the grid provider monetarily.
I was talking to someone recently and their consumption is billed as it is used- then the solar ‘credit’ is applied at the lesser wholesale rate. He said in 15-18 years they will break even. That hurt my personal logic motor driver LOL
We don’t even know “where we’ll be” in 15 years. Granted, “stopping the meter” guerrilla-style is generally expensive enough that it doesn’t make sense for a short-term ROI perspective. However, it hurts my head to think of investing big dollars in solar grid-tie that predominantly benefits the utility company not the consumer. One small utility here in Vermont once stated in a public meeting something along the lines of, ‘consumer solar excess fed to our grid will reduce profits below a sustainable level. We have to maintain billing for demand or raise base rates.’
I love this water heater kW workaround!
I always use a water softener to maintain efficiency.I have one in my shower valve.
Worked well for years, but eventually got sticky.
I knew sediment would come through. I found a high temperature rated strainer for potable water at Grainger (but not that high).
So my problem wasn't chunks, rather deposits.
Be sure to put a strainer before the mixing valve.
And make sure your aluminum or magnesium Anodein the hot water haven’t dissolved totally, causes a lot of bad deposits in hot water lines .I have one in my shower valve.
Worked well for years, but eventually got sticky.
I knew sediment would come through. I found a high temperature rated strainer for potable water at Grainger (but not that high).
So my problem wasn't chunks, rather deposits.
Be sure to put a strainer before the mixing valve.
I am getting very confused by this posting. what is it you are trying to do and why are you messing with the 2 heating elements. First heating wateri with electrics is by far the most expensive and if you have an excess in PV as you said, why not using a smaller electric heater connected to your system and any excess power go to the smaller heater and preheats the cold water going to your larger hot water tank. Now your larger tank doesn’t need to stay on as long to heat to temp and you won’t have any accidents with 180 deg water and potential excessive failure modes with messing with thermostats. This works and I have been using this for years with factory water heaters and no surprises. BTW I use propane for primary water heater and a 120vac smaller preheater connected to my system. Once the battery’s are charged they switch over and are redirected to the water heater, my thermal battery.I am trying to use less grid power. I hate sending my extra power to the grid because they pay me wholesale for it.
I dont know about volcanic eruptions but am an electrician engineer for over 30 years and me understand failure modes and effects and reliability indexes and do believe in the saying KEEP IT SIMPLE and AC and DC are not the same. My system is off grid and has been running flawlessly for 3+ years.The timer is a good way to use low cost power or surplus solar versus high cost power which is all a function of your utility company. the two tanks (one as preheat on solar only) and then a second tank on the grid is another way. I chose to do a solar pre heat tank into a second preheat tank (because I had that many seperate solar circuits and it was simpler) and then through an instantaneous propane hot water heater as a final heat source in case there was heavy clouds or a volcanic eruption or total electrical system failure. Some do direct solar thermal heating as preheat but it seems to be more expensive and failure prone even though it is a simple concept.
I know an old friend from those years, works as a caretaker for a smart home. Mansion and estate really. It’s so smart it needs a full time tech person at 60k a year, and they are hiring a second one soon. This is just to maintain the ‘smart home’, not the grounds. Reprogramming light switches and updating fridge code (maybe, I laughed so hard when he described his normal week I don’t remember exactly) and constant annoyances of the occasional squirrel or mouse appearing and eating a wire.
If you feel the need, I can honestly say I have never been more impressed by a product. Yes it is a simple device, but spectacularly executed in purpose and finish. I will always find something to critique in a product (or nearly all of it), but from the way the box was assembled, taped, stacked and protected I knew they were doing something out of pride of craftsmanship. The mill itself is beautiful, the finish perfect. The bearings are intentionally chosen to be overkill and replaceable at any auto parts store if need be. It’s guaranteed for your life and then some. Literally found not one single reason to fault it, add not one Thing I would change. Also, they are decent and helpful people, a family run business in Montana.I'm known as something of a Luddite. Still, when I needed a replacement kitchen faucet and saw a Moen at Re-Store that had IR sensors as well as a lever, I went ahead and got it. Two annoyances - it is "fly by wire", the lever is encoded with a few discrete steps, so if the batteries are dead you ain't getting water (no solar panel like the commercial ones I've seen). Doesn't have the nice analog behavior of a valve. Second, the sensor facing sink turned on the water every time I reached for something. Tried putting tape over the sensor, but that didn't work.
I had to read the owner's manual to program my kitchen faucet!
And I have an EE/CS degree. I built a computer as a kid. As in, wire-wrapped sockets between ICs. Built a bit-slice computer out of SSI/MSI ICs in college. Designed computers for HP (as in full custom ASIC design, on a team designing microprocessors. We wrote our own CAD tools). I automate test with bench instruments.
But I don't know how to program a VCR, and I just bought a replacement computer when I couldn't successfully install drivers for RealTek HD audio after XP SP3 on a "Media Center" PC. It was mute.
Falling back to a hand-crank grain mill and building a water turbine sounds appealing to me. I may solve Black Arts problems like EMI emissions and susceptibility, but levers and gears are much easier to understand.
I don't think its wise to run water heater at less than 60c (i'm metricated )you can end up with legionella. The previouse post mentioned tempering valve holds temp to about 60c which is hot but not so hot "the reaction on contact is to pull your hand away it is not hot enough to scald you instantly".The only thing that gives me pause is the 180°F. That just seems too dang high.
IMHO, usability will be impacted. If it's just you, you can probably manage it, but I wouldn't want the uncertainty of getting 120 vs. 180°F water out of my hot faucet for anyone else in the home.
EDIT: DERP... missed the mixing valve.
Have you considered using the timer to allow normal operation only during solar PV hours and upping the temperature to something like 140° on both thermostats?
Good to know. Thanks, I hadnt thought of calcification yet, I was more thinking of ways to increase capacity to meet demand on full cloudy days. We won’t have grid service where we are, so the thought of using the top element for quick recovery isn’t possible. We opted to go full solar only.I would recommend no more than 140 degree temperature. Reason being at 180 degrees, you're going to get a massive amount of calcium build up very quickly on your heating element. And a fair amount of heat loss thru the wall. 140 degrees will produce about 20% of the lime, and have lower standby heat loss. I might also recommend, only wiring and using the bottom element the top element is for a quick recovery, it does not do much. But as your are on solar the bottom element will do all the heating you need. while the commercial heater will do 180 degrees. It will wear out faster at 180 degrees due to liming.
I designed a lot of water heating systems in 40 years including a few that did a thousand gallons a minute.