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Dr Strangetroll : or how I learned to stop arguing and be amused by the intransigence

Maybe just the beginning :

Bill provides access to Ivermectin, protects vaccine mandate exemptions​

Indiana House Bill 1372 would enable health providers to prescribe ivermectin for the treatment of coronavirus and prohibit bans of the medication. The bill would also prevent the Medical Licensing Board of Indiana, the Indiana State Board of Nursing, and the Indiana Board of Pharmacy from sanctioning doctors for prescribing ivermectin.

The 2022 bill also prohibits employers in Indiana from enforcing vaccine mandates if a person rejects vaccination against COVID for religious or health reasons.

trialsitenews.com

Indiana Bill Would Prohibit Health Providers from Discouraging Ivermectin Use

Indiana’s General Assembly introduced a bill to support increased patient access to ivermectin for off-label treatment of SARS-CoV-2 or COVID-19.
trialsitenews.com
 
BMcL said:
Maybe just the beginning :

Bill provides access to Ivermectin, protects vaccine mandate exemptions​

Indiana House Bill 1372 would enable health providers to prescribe ivermectin for the treatment of coronavirus and prohibit bans of the medication. The bill would also prevent the Medical Licensing Board of Indiana, the Indiana State Board of Nursing, and the Indiana Board of Pharmacy from sanctioning doctors for prescribing ivermectin.

The 2022 bill also prohibits employers in Indiana from enforcing vaccine mandates if a person rejects vaccination against COVID for religious or health reasons.

trialsitenews.com

Indiana Bill Would Prohibit Health Providers from Discouraging Ivermectin Use

Indiana’s General Assembly introduced a bill to support increased patient access to ivermectin for off-label treatment of SARS-CoV-2 or COVID-19.
trialsitenews.com
Click to expand...
Politicians should not be involved in decisions made by doctors.

And while it is possible they could pass such a ridiculously stupid bill, the FDA will never allow such conspiracy crap to go forth.

The result will be someone dying because their quack job doctor gave them ivermectin, which will result in a medical lawsuit... and when that happens, the doctor better hope I'm not on the jury.

The doctor's own medical malpractice insurance will probably prevent such things as well by saying they won't cover malpractice for such nonsense.

What happened to Hydroxychloroquine? That nonsense conspiracy garbage didn't pan out so now you're on the Ivermectin nonsense?

Folks are funny, if not comically stupid.
 
Batvette said:
Dont be silly. The first "letter" links to a study and gives a detailed analysis of it. Did you even read it? Or did you just see the word letter and think "look now I have a reason to reject it."
Click to expand...
No the first letter links to other studies related to zinc and the common cold.

The "letter to the editor" contains a retroactive review of cases and attempts to draw conclusions. These types of analysis are always useful in identifying avenues for further research. In this case, further research was done by virtue of a double-blind randomized controlled clinical issue. Unfortunately, zinc has no impact on Covid. You would benefit from understanding the hierarchy of scientific research and learning statistics. I doubt you will do that so you should just listen to your doctor. On the chart below what you cited would be considered a case report-case series. "The more you know!"
 

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Cdkipp said:
No the first letter links to other studies related to zinc and the common cold.

The "letter to the editor" contains a retroactive review of cases and attempts to draw conclusions. These types of analysis are always useful in identifying avenues for further research. In this case, further research was done by virtue of a double-blind randomized controlled clinical issue. Unfortunately, zinc has no impact on Covid. You would benefit from understanding the hierarchy of scientific research and learning statistics. I doubt you will do that so you should just listen to your doctor. On the chart below what you cited would be considered a case report-case series. "The more you know!"
Click to expand...
When I got sick with Covid, I took some 25mg doses of zinc. 50mg tablets I snapped in half once a day.

I have no clue if it helped or not (probably not), but it certainly wasn't going to harm me. I take multi-vitamins on occasion as well because my diet isn't as varied as it probably should be.

I think a lot of Americans, including me, do not eat a diet with a wide variety of foods. Out of habit and convenience, we find the 15 or 20 things we like and sort of stick to them.
 
MurphyGuy said:
When I got sick with Covid, I took some 25mg doses of zinc. 50mg tablets I snapped in half once a day.

I have no clue if it helped or not (probably not), but it certainly wasn't going to harm me. I take multi-vitamins on occasion as well because my diet isn't as varied as it probably should be.

I think a lot of Americans, including me, do not eat a diet with a wide variety of foods. Out of habit and convenience, we find the 15 or 20 things we like and sort of stick to them.
Click to expand...
I probably would also. The main problem with these "remedies" to my mind is not the substance itself but the misinformation that often comes with the recommendation. Thee danger is folks that don't mask and vaccinate and think these remedies are a substitute for proven measures.
 
Cdkipp said:
I probably would also. The main problem with these "remedies" to my mind is not the substance itself but the misinformation that often comes with the recommendation. Thee danger is folks that don't mask and vaccinate and think these remedies are a substitute for proven measures.
Click to expand...

I agree.. but you can't fix stupid. Best we can do is give them the information and let the reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of their own choices.

I think people are utterly stupid for not getting vaccinated, but I'm very much against any mandates.
 
Cdkipp said:
I am goi

I am going to stop posting here. I probably will leave the forum entirely.

Those are not studies. Those are letters. The references in them are to studies and reviews of zinc and the common cold. Note they say zinc is effective against colds and coronaviruses. I already said it has limited effectiveness against colds. Some versions of what is considered the common cold are coronaviruses. The fact that something works, to a limited degree, against some respiratory infections does not mean it will work against all. So to find out if they do they don't guess. They don't read right-wing blogs and watch Tucker Carlson they do studies that are randomized (as to participants so they groups become statistically indistinguishable) double-blind (so not only do the participants not know if they are getting a placebo or zinc but the people administering the drug do not know) controlled (confounding variables identified and the study designed to eliminate their influence) trials (actual trials done in accordance with guideline and protocols). This is how they determine if something works and they were quite interested in zinc. You say "It doesn't take a degree in medicine to take in information off the internet". Well, it sure helps especially these days. You need to know how to access and read actual scientific studies. You need to know how to rank scientific information. You need to understand statistical analysis and be able to recognize deviations from the randomized double-blind clinical trial protocol. This is why the absolute best advice always is to consult with your personal physician. This is an actual study. This is what they look like. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2776305
Click to expand...
Your study is irrelevant. Subjects received only 50 mg zinc, thats far less than the treatment described. (150-200mg).
More importantly, they did not use zinc lozenges dissolved in the throat (preferrably lying down) they simply administered zinc as a supplement.
What an irresponsible study. It seems you dont even understand this treatment.
 
Batvette said:
Your study is irrelevant. Subjects received only 50 mg zinc, thats far less than the treatment described. (150-200mg).
More importantly, they did not use zinc lozenges dissolved in the throat (preferrably lying down) they simply administered zinc as a supplement.
What an irresponsible study. It seems you dont even understand this treatment.
Click to expand...
I understand that you want it to work. So do I, but if you want to claim it works, you have to do the study and post the results. Untill then the default position is that is an unproven treatment at best. In the meantime normal people will accept the study results.

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with adults choosing to take zinc , horse dewormer, bleach or drink their own urine. When those same people make false or unproven claims, they should expect skepticim laughter and ridicule. Polite response takes a lot of self constraint.
 
Johnson said:
When those same people make false or unproven claims, they should expect skepticim laughter and ridicule.
Click to expand...

Printed just below the title of this forum:

Post your opinions or thoughts about the world or anything else you wish. Be civil!

I am surprised that the self-proclaimed "highly educated" participants here engage in such petty discourse. If they are as the represent themselves to be, they would know that doing so changes no minds and makes them look weak and ineffective. But then, it is typically a gang and/or tribal mentality common to anonymous discourse in the internet age - much of what is posted in a less than civil manner seems to be aimed at approval from the like-minded tribe rather than any attempt to change any minds, and it typically comes from a place of insecurity and mental weakness, like virtually all forms of passive-aggressive and bullying behavior.

The most ironic thing about this behavior? - in this forum it seems to come primarily from Trump haters who are behaving exactly like he did when someone disagreed with him or said something he didn't like. So, congratulations! - you all have something in common with Trump; his worst personality characteristic.
 
bdserv said:
Printed just below the title of this forum:

Post your opinions or thoughts about the world or anything else you wish. Be civil!

I am surprised that the self-proclaimed "highly educated" participants here engage in such petty discourse. If they are as the represent themselves to be, they would know that doing so changes no minds and makes them look weak and ineffective. But then, it is typically a gang and/or tribal mentality common to anonymous discourse in the internet age - much of what is posted in a less than civil manner seems to be aimed at approval from the like-minded tribe rather than any attempt to change any minds, and it typically comes from a place of insecurity and mental weakness, like virtually all forms of passive-aggressive and bullying behavior.

The most ironic thing about this behavior? - in this forum it seems to come primarily from Trump haters who are behaving exactly like he did when someone disagreed with him or said something he didn't like. So, congratulations! - you all have something in common with Trump; his worst personality characteristic.
Click to expand...
Sounds like someone has been drinking their own urine.
 
Batvette said:
Your study is irrelevant. Subjects received only 50 mg zinc, thats far less than the treatment described. (150-200mg).
More importantly, they did not use zinc lozenges dissolved in the throat (preferrably lying down) they simply administered zinc as a supplement.
What an irresponsible study. It seems you dont even understand this treatment.
Click to expand...
Interesting Cold-EEZE makes NO claim whatsoever about Covid. I was going to invest in that company before it even started manufacturing so I know some of the history. Think of ALL the money they could make (and the studies, not really studies, you found). Seems like they would be on tv every day and shouting this from the rooftops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But no, not a word, and even after their bold packaging and claims about the cold there is an asterisk and after that it says: "Claims based on traditional homeopathic practice, not accepted medical evidence. Not FDA evaluated".

Zinc is necessary to proper immune system function. That amount can be achieved in a good diet. But if you have doubts take a multivitamin. recommended dose 8-10 mg per day.
 
Bob B said:
At least you have coherent ideas .... unlike those other 2 who don't even understand risk vs benefit.

Where you are going wrong is in the assumption that the vaccinated aren't spreading the virus .... I have previously posted data showing that there is no correlation between the % of the population that is vaccinated and the number of cases .... in some areas of the world, the number was actually reversed .... meaning that the vaccinated are spreading the virus just as good or better than the unvaxxed.
I also posted info on the major Cornell University outbreak where 99% were vaccinated .... because they weren't allowed to go to school with out it. They sent all those kids home to spread the virus to their families.
So .... in light of that information, the argument to get vaccinated to protect other people falls apart. (This was before Omicron ... when Delta was still the primary variant.)

We don't have good data one way or the other about vaccine risk .... we know it exists .... especially in previously healthy young people who have heart problems after the vaccine and sometimes die ... We know the has been a huge uptick in reporting on the VAERS system .... but that system is so bad it is impossible to extrapolate real data from it. Under reporting is estimated to be at least a factor of 10 and maybe as high as in the 100's

We know the deaths from Covid have been inflated ... When they finally start releasing some of the data for vaccinated people, we can see that around 40% of deaths were not FROM Covid, but WITH Covid .... All of them were reported as Covid deaths .... Even CNN has done reporting on that .... and on average the people dying had 4 comorbidities. If a person died after getting in a car accident and tested positive for covid they were listed as dying from covid.
The really odd thing is that they could provide that information for vaccinated people .... but not unvaccinated people ....So ..... we can't do a comparison. Why would they have the info for one group and not the other?

You are correct in saying I don't think there is a good risk vs benefit for HEALTHY young people.

The vaccine doesn't even work for people on immunosuppressant drugs .... they would have to stop there meds for a significant time to ..... There are approximately 10 million of those people in the US. The risk vs benefit is upside down for these people.

People who have natural immunity have better immunity that the vaccinated .... Why in the world would you just blatantly ignore that and try to force them into getting vaccinated anyway. That would be another scenario where the risk vs benefit goes the wrong way.

There are pregnant women who have legitimate concern that the vaccine could cause misarrange.

There are as many scenarios as there are people .... We are NOT all the same and shouldn't be treated as such. Everyone should be doing their OWN assessment and deciding what is best for themselves and their families.
Click to expand...
Here are some Uttar Pradesh best practices for you to emulate. I am sure their daily case counts are EXTREMELY accurate. https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/utt...or-covid-waste-management-green-court-2707868
 
bdserv said:
Printed just below the title of this forum:

Post your opinions or thoughts about the world or anything else you wish. Be civil!

I am surprised that the self-proclaimed "highly educated" participants here engage in such petty discourse. If they are as the represent themselves to be, they would know that doing so changes no minds and makes them look weak and ineffective. But then, it is typically a gang and/or tribal mentality common to anonymous discourse in the internet age - much of what is posted in a less than civil manner seems to be aimed at approval from the like-minded tribe rather than any attempt to change any minds, and it typically comes from a place of insecurity and mental weakness, like virtually all forms of passive-aggressive and bullying behavior.

The most ironic thing about this behavior? - in this forum it seems to come primarily from Trump haters who are behaving exactly like he did when someone disagreed with him or said something he didn't like. So, congratulations! - you all have something in common with Trump; his worst personality characteristic.
Click to expand...
Maybe you could give me an example where I have been anything but civil.

As far as I am aware, unlike Trump, no one here has advocate for violence against any conspiracy theorists.

 
Johnson said:
Maybe you could give me an example where I have been anything but civil.

As far as I am aware, unlike Trump, no one here has advocate for violence against any conspiracy theorists.

Click to expand...
Yes. I just don't get it. That was an extremely tame comment. Something else set him off.
 
Bob B said:
At least you have coherent ideas .... unlike those other 2 who don't even understand risk vs benefit.

Where you are going wrong is in the assumption that the vaccinated aren't spreading the virus .... I have previously posted data showing that there is no correlation between the % of the population that is vaccinated and the number of cases .... in some areas of the world, the number was actually reversed .... meaning that the vaccinated are spreading the virus just as good or better than the unvaxxed.
I also posted info on the major Cornell University outbreak where 99% were vaccinated .... because they weren't allowed to go to school with out it. They sent all those kids home to spread the virus to their families.
So .... in light of that information, the argument to get vaccinated to protect other people falls apart. (This was before Omicron ... when Delta was still the primary variant.)

We don't have good data one way or the other about vaccine risk .... we know it exists .... especially in previously healthy young people who have heart problems after the vaccine and sometimes die ... We know the has been a huge uptick in reporting on the VAERS system .... but that system is so bad it is impossible to extrapolate real data from it. Under reporting is estimated to be at least a factor of 10 and maybe as high as in the 100's

We know the deaths from Covid have been inflated ... When they finally start releasing some of the data for vaccinated people, we can see that around 40% of deaths were not FROM Covid, but WITH Covid .... All of them were reported as Covid deaths .... Even CNN has done reporting on that .... and on average the people dying had 4 comorbidities. If a person died after getting in a car accident and tested positive for covid they were listed as dying from covid.
The really odd thing is that they could provide that information for vaccinated people .... but not unvaccinated people ....So ..... we can't do a comparison. Why would they have the info for one group and not the other?

You are correct in saying I don't think there is a good risk vs benefit for HEALTHY young people.

The vaccine doesn't even work for people on immunosuppressant drugs .... they would have to stop there meds for a significant time to ..... There are approximately 10 million of those people in the US. The risk vs benefit is upside down for these people.

People who have natural immunity have better immunity that the vaccinated .... Why in the world would you just blatantly ignore that and try to force them into getting vaccinated anyway. That would be another scenario where the risk vs benefit goes the wrong way.

There are pregnant women who have legitimate concern that the vaccine could cause misarrange.

There are as many scenarios as there are people .... We are NOT all the same and shouldn't be treated as such. Everyone should be doing their OWN assessment and deciding what is best for themselves and their families.
Click to expand...
So should this risk-benefit be performed by people reviewing conspiracy websites? Here is a risk-benefit analysis by actual scientists. https://www.rsm.ac.uk/media/5475435...bsite&utm_medium=pdf&utm_campaign=JRSM_papers
 
bdserv said:
Printed just below the title of this forum:

Post your opinions or thoughts about the world or anything else you wish. Be civil!

I am surprised that the self-proclaimed "highly educated" participants here engage in such petty discourse. If they are as the represent themselves to be, they would know that doing so changes no minds and makes them look weak and ineffective. But then, it is typically a gang and/or tribal mentality common to anonymous discourse in the internet age - much of what is posted in a less than civil manner seems to be aimed at approval from the like-minded tribe rather than any attempt to change any minds, and it typically comes from a place of insecurity and mental weakness, like virtually all forms of passive-aggressive and bullying behavior.

The most ironic thing about this behavior? - in this forum it seems to come primarily from Trump haters who are behaving exactly like he did when someone disagreed with him or said something he didn't like. So, congratulations! - you all have something in common with Trump; his worst personality characteristic.
Click to expand...
Well said! I agree 100% But as you can see the fearmongering continues. I found that its is more effective to contact the goveners and congressmen.
 
bdserv said:
Printed just below the title of this forum:

Post your opinions or thoughts about the world or anything else you wish. Be civil!

I am surprised that the self-proclaimed "highly educated" participants here engage in such petty discourse. If they are as the represent themselves to be, they would know that doing so changes no minds and makes them look weak and ineffective. But then, it is typically a gang and/or tribal mentality common to anonymous discourse in the internet age - much of what is posted in a less than civil manner seems to be aimed at approval from the like-minded tribe rather than any attempt to change any minds, and it typically comes from a place of insecurity and mental weakness, like virtually all forms of passive-aggressive and bullying behavior.

The most ironic thing about this behavior? - in this forum it seems to come primarily from Trump haters who are behaving exactly like he did when someone disagreed with him or said something he didn't like. So, congratulations! - you all have something in common with Trump; his worst personality characteristic.
Click to expand...
BD, there is a difference between republicans and democrats.
They see anyone who opposes their socialism/communism as EVIL.
We think they are duped, or just not very bright.
I's hard to imagine someone hating you because you aren't vaccinated; or you aren't comfortable with seeing a child
aborted after 5 months of pregnancy. Or you disagree that climate change is a catastropic problem.
But it's real. I don't let it bother me. Liberalism is a mental illness IMHO.
 
Last edited:
BMcL said:
BD, there is a difference between republicans and democrats.
They see anyone who opposes their socialism/communism as EVIL.
We think they are duped, or just not very bright.
I's hard to imagine someone hating you because you aren't vaccinated; or you aren't comfortable with seeing a child
aborted after 5 months of pregnancy. Or you disagree that climate change is a catastropic problem.
But it's real. I don't let it bother me. Liberalism is a mental illness IMHO.
Click to expand...
A liberal is a person who understands and respects other people’s opinions and behaviour, especially when they are different from their own.

liberal noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Definition of liberal noun in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more.
www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com
 
BMcL said:
BD, there is a difference between republicans and democrats.
They see anyone who opposes their socialism/communism as EVIL.
We think they are duped, or just not very bright.
I's hard to imagine someone hating you because you aren't vaccinated; or you aren't comfortable with seeing a child
aborted after 5 months of pregnancy. Or you disagree that climate change is a catastropic problem.
But it's real. I don't let it bother me. Liberalism is a mental illness IMHO.
Click to expand...
What causes your mental illness?
 
Jimmy Dore is a left-winger who says he knows why Japan's Covid statistics are so much better than the US :

 
BMcL said:
Jimmy Dore is a left-winger who says he knows why Japan's Covid statistics are so much better than the US :

Click to expand...
You seem to have a bad habit of listening to anyone who IS NOT a scientist.

That's messed up.. You'll even listen to a comedian, but not a real scientist.

Irrational religious beliefs cause irrational behavior.
 
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