Dr Strangetroll : or how I learned to stop arguing and be amused by the intransigence

[Cdkipp]

I'm really not interested in engaging in another argument .... I was simply responding to your response to my post.
The discussion has become so toxic that I'm not even sure there is value in participating at all ..... except for some who may be lurking ... but with all the name calling and hate in this thread, I doubt there are many of those left.

Well, I agree with that. In fact, changed my screen name to get out of this but here I am.

On the topic of risk to youth, take a look at developments this week that Epstein Barr virus is a necessary precursor to Multiple Sclerosis. So the Epstein Barr vaccine could block all future MS cases. Think also about how viruses like herpes (chicken pox) present later in life with completely different symptoms (shingles). Then about Lyme, Syphillis and Strep. All initially simple bacterial infections that can come back and kill. Now look at the graphic below of all the areas of the body the Covid virus is found in autopsies. We know long covid and an assortment of other things exist, but we have no idea of the real long-term risk.

No risk-benefit analysis is adequate unless you consider everything.

 

[A.Justice]

Experts Conclude Pfizer Manipulated Studies (Published 2008)

The drug maker manipulated the publication of studies to bolster use of its epilepsy drug Neurontin, according to expert witnesses in a lawsuit against the company.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Bob B]

Well, I agree with that. In fact, changed my screen name to get out of this but here I am.

On the topic of risk to youth, take a look at developments this week that Epstein Barr virus is a necessary precursor to Multiple Sclerosis. So the Epstein Barr vaccine could block all future MS cases. Think also about how viruses like herpes (chicken pox) present later in life with completely different symptoms (shingles). Then about Lyme, Syphillis and Strep. All initially simple bacterial infections that can come back and kill. Now look at the graphic below of all the areas of the body the Covid virus is found in autopsies. We know long covid and an assortment of other things exist, but we have no idea of the real long-term risk.

No risk-benefit analysis is adequate unless you consider everything.

I don't think we are going to have a good picture of the effects of Covid ..... or the effects from the vaccine for a while yet.

If you look at the charts I posted above .... and the chart below for deaths in the US for children and adolescents in 1 year ... prior to Covid .... It is REALLY hard to understand all the panic about kids and covid and the determination to get kids vaccinated.
Sorry for the quality, but as you can see there was about the same number of kids dying from Covid as those who were unintentionally poisoned.

 

[Cdkipp]

Experts Conclude Pfizer Manipulated Studies (Published 2008)

The drug maker manipulated the publication of studies to bolster use of its epilepsy drug Neurontin, according to expert witnesses in a lawsuit against the company.

www.nytimes.com

Yes. You and BMCL (and probably Bob B) though deny the validity of the New York Times and the John Hopkins School of Public Health. I gave a lot of Neurontin as a neuroscience nurse. It is a serious drug. I also object to the FDA's recent approval of the Alzheimers drug.

That is how science works.

 

[Bob B]

Yes. You and BMCL (and probably Bob B) though deny the validity of the New York Times and the John Hopkins School of Public Health. I gave a lot of Neurontin as a neuroscience nurse. It is a serious drug. I also object to the FDA's recent approval of the Alzheimers drug.

That is how science works.

See..... You just can't help yourself from just making things up .... I post Johns Hopkins data all the time .....

There is no sense trying to respond with actual info when you just want to argue about things you make up.

 

[Cdkipp]

See..... You just can't help yourself from just making things up .... I post Johns Hopkins data all the time .....

There is no sense trying to respond with actual info when you just want to argue about things you make up.

Yes, that is a different division but I take your point. To be fair you post their stats but they strongly recommend the vaccine for all age groups and say ivermectin does NOT work.

 

[bradbill]

No, too boring and not volatile enough.
To truly make a lot of money, you need volatility.
But I don't waste my time with beginners or those who have nothing to invest.

LOL...says the person with no money!

 

[A.Justice]

Yes. You and BMCL (and probably Bob B) though deny the validity of the New York Times and the John Hopkins School of Public Health. I gave a lot of Neurontin as a neuroscience nurse. It is a serious drug. I also object to the FDA's recent approval of the Alzheimers drug.

That is how science works.

I think you have me confused with somebody else, or are mistaking my comments for other people's assumptions about me. I've never specifically called out the New York times on here that I can recall.

The point I was making is that Pfizer has lied and manipulated data in the past, and I propose that they're doing the exact same thing again, again... again. I chose the NYT article because others seem to accept them as valid source, but there's a handful of other websites that article been published on, both right and left.

Like you said, trust the science, but pharmaceutical companies have been caught lying in the past, at the expense of human life for profit.

Edit:
Typos

 

[Bob B]

I think you have me confused with somebody else, or are mistaking my comments for other people's assumptions about me. I've never specifically called out the New York times on here that I can recall.

The point I was making is that Pfizer has lied and manipulated data in the past, and I propose that they're doing the exact same thing again, again... again. I chose the NYT article because others seem to accept them as valid source, but there's a handful of other websites that article been published on, both right and left.

Like you said, trust the science, but pharmaceutical companies have been caught lying in the past, at the expense of human life for profit.

Edit:
Typos

He simply didn't have any substantive way to respond to your post .... so the usual playbook came out.
Those kind of responses from him are merely designed to change the subject away from a valid post and the strategy has become very predictable and tiring.

If we could have a legitimate discussion .... minus that kind of BS ... everyone might actually learn some things.
There is no arguing that Pfizer has a very dark history .... and have previously shown their willingness to corrupt information.
We are somehow supposed to think they have seen the light and won't do that any more.

I'm done with trying to respond to the rediculous.

 

[Cdkipp]

I think you have me confused with somebody else, or are mistaking my comments for other people's assumptions about me. I've never specifically called out the New York times on here that I can recall.

The point I was making is that Pfizer has lied and manipulated data in the past, and I propose that they're doing the exact same thing again, again... again. I chose the NYT article because others seem to accept them as valid source, but there's a handful of other websites that article been published on, both right and left.

Like you said, trust the science, but pharmaceutical companies have been caught lying in the past, at the expense of human life for profit.

Edit:
Typos

Yes. I caught you were throwing shade on Pfizer. The same folks would call them out if they were doing that here. The situations are not comparable for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Bob B]

It looks like we have reached the peak for Omicron ..... The next couple months is going to be really interesting what happens .... post Omicron.

Some Johns Hopkins data.

 

[Cdkipp]

It looks like we have reached the peak for Omicron ..... The next couple months is going to be really interesting what happens .... post Omicron.

Some Johns Hopkins data.
View attachment 79849

Got a prediction? It would suck if Delta having been pushed to the curb decides to finish up business.

 

[Cdkipp]

It looks like we have reached the peak for Omicron ..... The next couple months is going to be really interesting what happens .... post Omicron.

Some Johns Hopkins data.
View attachment 79849

Paxlovid is going to be a positive and should work regardless of the variant. The case numbers of Omicron is producing seems to really point toward the probability of a new variant. My guess is we will be pretty good until next fall although I am not very confident in that prediction.

 

[Bob B]

Got a prediction? It would suck if Delta having been pushed to the curb decides to finish up business.

I don't have a prediction ..... but HOPE that those who are saying Omicron induced immunity puts a real hurt on Delta are correct.

 

[A.Justice]

Yes. I caught you were throwing shade on Pfizer. The same folks would call them out if they were doing that here. The situations are not comparable for a multitude of reasons.

What do you believe those reasons to be?

 

[Cdkipp]

I don't have a prediction ..... but HOPE that those who are saying Omicron induced immunity puts a real hurt on Delta are correct.

I saw a chart of the projected immunity in UK after Omicron and it was crazy high.

But yeah, immune against what exactly.

 

[A.Justice]

The same folks would call them out if they were doing that here.

Also, there's plenty of people blowing the whistle, you call them "conspiracy theorists"?. The fact that this conversation is even happening is proof of the dissent. There's tons of people (including doctors and politicians) that are calling out those companies right now, including me. The accusation has definitely been made.

 

[Cdkipp]

What do you believe those reasons to be?

Well, two reasons but they are variations of the same reason.

The short version is that the mRNA vaccines have to be (unless someone can think of another example) the most heavily scrutinized drugs/vaccines in world history. You don't stick your hand in the cookie jar when Mom is looking. I cannot imagine any drug has been looked at this much not to mention hundreds of millions of doses given within a year and real-time feedback.

That is a lot different than playing games to try to expand the usage of an off-label epilepsy drug that was soon to go generic.

 

[Cdkipp]

Also, there's plenty of people blowing the whistle, you call them "conspiracy theorists"?. The fact that this conversation is even happening is proof of the dissent. There's tons of people (including doctors and politicians) that are calling out those companies right now, including me. The accusation has definitely been made.

There is no mainstream argument against the mRNA vaccine. No countries' regulatory agency has denied these vaccines. There remain issues regarding myocarditis with the mRNA and blood clots with the J & J but every major medical association, public health agency, and the regulatory agency is uniformly recommending the vaccines. We now have diminished efficacy due to the variants but that was always a known risk

The anti-vax movement has existed for years and that is now tied with political overtones. I don't deny those voices but they are small and fringe..

 

[Bob B]

I saw a chart of the projected immunity in UK after Omicron and it was crazy high.

But yeah, immune against what exactly.

What is your theory about the origins of Omicron? Apparently Omicron has a number of mutation .... totally unlike the way Delta mutated.
There are a lot of theories ..... one is that maybe it went to animals and came back to humans in the form of Omicron .... there are several other theories.

 

[A.Justice]

Well, two reasons but they are variations of the same reason.

The short version is that the mRNA vaccines have to be (unless someone can think of another example) the most heavily scrutinized drugs/vaccines in world history. You don't stick your hand in the cookie jar when Mom is looking.

I understand your viewpoint, and that makes some sense to me as well.

Like I mentioned in the previous post, the accusations ARE there, it's just a matter of whether you believe them or not. It also makes it easier when your mom is a news company, and you pay for a chunk of their programming. Shut the f*ck up MOM.

What I'm proposing goes slightly deeper than that though.

For the sake of argument, let's quickly ignore any debate about whether the vaccine works or not, it's not relevant to my second point.

Pharmaceutical companies, especially Pfizer, sponsor quite a few media outlets (it's public record and can be looked up) Those media outlets are, undoubtedly, getting a lot of views off the "covid story". I think that Pfizer (as well as other companies) are pumping the story up, and making it sound worse than it is, to try and sell a product. Again, whether that product works or not I don't think really matters, what I'm uncomfortable with is the malicious manipulation of people for a sale.

I think that the vaccine could be very beneficial (assuming,of course, that it works, and isn't causing any crazy side effects at an unacceptable rate) to people in certain demographics and age groups, but I also think that's everybody's personal choice.

I cannot imagine any drug has been looked at this much not to mention hundreds of millions of doses given within a year and real-time feedback.

There are a lot of anecdotal reports of problems though. But those are just what they are, anecdotal, and as such need to be taken with a grain of salt. However, there are quite a few of these reports, at least enough to look into, in my opinion. Everything starts as an anecdotal report by a person, so you can't really blame somebody for believing them.

That is a lot different than playing games to try to expand the usage of an off-label epilepsy drug that was soon to go generic.

Yeah, I sort of agree, but it speaks to their reputation as a company. This also isn't an isolated incident, these people are constantly accused, and found guilty of doing super shady stuff. Are you going to let a guy with 17 breaking and entering charges install your CCTV system? Maybe he's a good guy, but I wouldn't trust him.

 

[Cdkipp]

What is your theory about the origins of Omicron? Apparently Omicron has a number of mutation .... totally unlike the way Delta mutated.
There are a lot of theories ..... one is that maybe it went to animals and came back to humans in the form of Omicron .... there are several other theories.

The one to the animal and back made the most sense to me but????????????????????

 

[Johnson]

People are questioning the excesseses of capitalism and that questioning is a good thing. But when any attempt is made to do something to mitigate the problems the propnents are labeled as communist. So here we are.

The drive for profit does not automatically mean the products pharmaceutical companies produce are bad as some are claiming. It just means that the drive for profit is not the only motivation we should rely on when it comes to medicine in general.

Good luck fixing that in today's political climate.

 

[BMcL]

People are questioning the excesseses of capitalism and that questioning is a good thing. But when any attempt is made to do something to mitigate the problems the propnents are labeled as communist. So here we are.

The drive for profit does not automatically mean the products pharmaceutical companies produce are bad as some are claiming. It just means that the drive for profit is not the only motivation we should rely on when it comes to medicine in general.

Good luck fixing that in today's political climate.

It's not just money that keeps this scamdemic going. It's politicians not wanting to give up the control they have over the people.

Once politicians are granted power over the people, do you think they will be eager to give it up ?

And it doesn't help when they are receiving kickbacks to keep the mandates going.

 

[Johnson]

It's not just money that keeps this scamdemic going. It's politicians not wanting to give up the control they have over the people.

Once politicians are granted power over the people, do you think they will be eager to give it up ?

And it doesn't help when they are receiving kickbacks to keep the mandates going.

Seems to me you have a problem with capitalism.